Deion Jones signed to 1-year deal per Schefter

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

6 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I was pushing for McConkey and an X frequently before the draft. The pushback from folks was we already have McConkey on the roster with Shakir and Samuel; we don't need another slot. It did no good to tell them McConkey lined up on the outside 80% of the time at UGA. He is a master route runner, runs smooth and then breaks violently. We don't have that. They have not replaced Diggs. It is a problem, even if many refuse to acknowledge it.

I have a feeling the Bills are going to rue the day they passed on Ladd McConkey!!

[White Linen]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I didn't. I spoke facts and you took offence for some unknown reason. I like Deion. But its his 4th team in 4 years.

 

You can't seem to comprehend most players like Deion, that you sign for the reasons I stated, have resumes like that.  You don't accept facts anyone else puts out there, for a known reason.

[Mat68]

28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I agree that they absolutely are primarily slot guys. I was simply saying that he offers a skill set that they do not currently have.

 

I also think that you’re right, that it’ll be a few different guys down the field. If Coleman can be a more reliable Gabe, he will be a good pickup. Gabe’s issue was that he was so limited in the routes that he ran well. To this point, Coleman has similar struggles. He’s young though and has lots of upside.

Gabe has build up speed.  Deep passes he could eventually get on top a db but was a struggle.  That lumbering style made it hard to incorporate underneath.  Coleman offering more early underneath in my mind helps him get to similar places down field as Davis.  

[White Linen]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

In terms of Gabe, the question was, “who now runs the 9 route?” 
 

Shakir had 45 targets!! What are you talking about that he handled volume??? Kincaid had 91 targets. If you take just the Brady games it was 40. If you extrapolate that across the season it’s 97 targets. 
 

The WR room last year wasn’t good enough. It was way better than this group. Now if Coleman is good and Shakir continues to develop they can be an average WR room. At the moment, they’re inarguably in the bottom 3. 

 

 

 

 

You don't know last year's group was way better.  Would you agree that Samuel is a WR that can fill the volume left from Gabe's departure?  Regardless of not running the seam route.

 

Shakir stepped up his volume when Gabe's dropped.  Understand now?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

You don't know last year's group was way better.  Would you agree that Samuel is a WR that can fill the volume left from Gabe's departure?  Regardless of not running the seam route.

 

Shakir stepped up his volume when Gabe's dropped.  Understand now?

As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR. 

 

Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?

Edited May 4 by Kirby Jackson

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR. 

 

Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?

 

Who cares about targets unless you're purposely trying to mislead?

 

 

Ok, he had an 86.7% catch rate, so I'll take 51 catches from Shakir. 

[Kirby Jackson]

18 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Who cares about targets unless you're purposely trying to mislead?

 

 

Ok, he had an 86.7% catch rate, so I'll take 51 catches from Shakir. 

 

On 5/4/2024 at 11:36 AM, White Linen said:

 

Gabe could run particular routes sure, but in 8 games he had 2 catches or less.  That's not handling volume.  Diggs is everything you've said but something broke and he lost his, want to, for this team.  His volume faded as the numbers prove that out.

 

I won't go so far as to say, we're definitely better, at WR but I think we are. We've addressed the position and there's a lot of, let's see.  It's a wildly different approach/group for sure.

 

Shakir and Kincaid provided volume last year, which was an issue, not a strength.

This you?

 

I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency.

 

The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

Edited May 5 by Kirby Jackson

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

This you?

 

I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe when went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency.

 

The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

KJ getting in the mud is quite a sight. Someone let the dog off the leash!

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

KJ getting in the mud is quite a sight. Someone let the dog off the leash!

I’m tired man. Having a different opinion is great. Healthy debate is what makes this place fun. If you’re going to say something defend it and be specific. There are way too many posters now just talking out of their 🍑.  Lastly, don’t make claims that can easily be fact checked. Certainly don’t double down on it. We all just need to be better around here. 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 5/3/2024 at 12:06 PM, GunnerBill said:

It's that type of need based drafting that get you in trouble in the long run.

 

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea the lack of top end talent has been the main thing stopping them going further IMO. Needing someone to make a play for them at the critical moment. Those KC games come down to a play here and there. They have every single time since the AFCCG where we were well beaten and still short of their level. Every game against them since has come down to a couple of plays. And while we have made them in the regular season we haven't in the post season and Kelce, Hill (before he left) and Jones have. If this ends up being something of a hole filling meat and potatoes draft that allows them to use the capital they have built next year to get a difference maker or two that will be one thing. But it felt very hole filly, quite need driven and there remain questions about our ability to find game changers.

 

I generally agree with the doctrine that it's best to draft BPA than for need but as we all know there's no team that ignores need. As you suggest there is a time and place (a round and pick) for when to draft certain positions.

 

However that blanket rule ignores the reality, texture, and nuance of the draft. I think we'd all agree that the best drafters and the best draft picks can come from breaking those rules and recognizing the exceptions to those rules.

 

Regarding the players in question, DeWayne Carter and Ray Davis, it's interesting to look at the context of their picks

 

In the case of Carter, there were 9 DTs taken  in the first 54 picks. The next DT taken was when the Bills took Carter at 95. That triggered another run on DTs, at 97, 105, 109, and 116. That tells me that the Bills valuation was pretty sound.

 

Unlike you and some others, I and some others like Carter and particularly envision him being a valuable addition to the pass rush. Oliver disappeared against the Chiefs and I think that Carter's selection took that into consideration. Interior pressure is important.

 

Regarding Davis, he was the 8th RB taken (#128) and part of a run that started with Jaylen Wright at #120 and that ended with 5 RBs later with Braelon Allen at #134. Again his valuation seems correct and while I don't recall your feelings about Davis, I very much like the player and believe that like Carter, he fills a glaring hole on the roster... a dependable RB who has no weaknesses, never fumbles or drops passes, and can be counted on to get at least as many yards as a play is designed to gain. I could be very wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if he had 200 touches this year and like others, hope very much that he significantly reduces the number of plays where Josh Allen is the designated runner.

 

You can't hit a home run for an elite difference maker with every draft pick.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Seems to me that folks want to argue that Diggs and Davis were such non-entities, especially the backend of the season and the playoffs, that they are basically a nullity, so adding anyone is then treated as an "improvement."

 

A variation on that theme is that our offense was too dependent on Diggs, and finesse. Now we are going to be unpredictable and fierce! Okay, but one man's unpredictable is another's not sufficiently talented to scare the opponent enough to demand the defense attend to a special player. Certainly, it is an advantage to have weapons that a team can't afford to ignore. That is how you get winning match-ups for your role players. Possible Kincaid becomes that player. 

 

A key point that you are making that I think deserves attention is that the WR room last year was lacking. It was not good. You could argue it was middling, and that was when Diggs was not injured or acting out. Let's hypothetically grant what I don't think should be granted: pretend the accumulated talent and redistributed targets ends up the equivalent of last year's WR room  at its best. If everyone hits their ceiling, that means you have an average at best overall WR room. That is unlikely to win you championships, but yes, you can make the playoffs with that. 

 

Now what is the likelihood that everyone is going to ascend, and that injuries won't derail plans? The redundancy in the WR room is all at the bottom end. The much more plausible result is you are going to take a step back from average, quite possibly a step back from the less than average you ended 2023 with, which should never happen with Josh Allen as your QB.

 

8 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I had high hopes for Gabe Davis, but they did not come true.  Overall, Davis did not produce enough and had a lot of drive killing INTs and drops.

His production and benefit to the team can easily be made up with another WR on this team. 

 

Yes. Firstly let's not pretend that it's gonna be difficult to replace Gabriel Davis.

 

Secondly Diggs mentally checked out in the last half of the season. There's good documentation that he was not being bracketed by defenses and good documentation that he was taking himself out of games. And there's no disputing that there were several clutch, difference-making plays where he simply dropped perfectly-thrown balls.

 

I agree that it's not a given that Diggs won't be missed but by the same token, I don't think it's a compelling argument to say that he'll be sorely missed either.

 

The greater point is that good organizations can have solid drafts which incrementally improve the team and I really like this draft. I pretty much love every pick they made except for the rugby player, and I can understand that pick even though I don't like it.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

I generally agree with the doctrine that it's best to draft BPA than for need but as we all know there's no team that ignores need. As you suggest there is a time and place (a round and pick) for when to draft certain positions.

 

However that blanket rule ignores the reality, texture, and nuance of the draft. I think we'd all agree that the best drafters and the best draft picks can come from breaking those rules and recognizing the exceptions to those rules.

 

Regarding the players in question, DeWayne Carter and Ray Davis, it's interesting to look at the context of their picks

 

In the case of Carter, there were 9 DTs taken  in the first 54 picks. The next DT taken was when the Bills took Carter at 95. That triggered another run on DTs, at 97, 105, 109, and 116. That tells me that the Bills valuation was pretty sound.

 

Unlike you and some others, I and some others like Carter and particularly envision him being a valuable addition to the pass rush. Oliver disappeared against the Chiefs and I think that Carter's selection took that into consideration. Interior pressure is important.

 

Regarding Davis, he was the 8th RB taken (#128) and part of a run that started with Jaylen Wright at #120 and that ended with 5 RBs later with Braelon Allen at #134. Again his valuation seems correct and while I don't recall your feelings about Davis, I very much like the player and believe that like Carter, he fills a glaring hole on the roster... a dependable RB who has no weaknesses, never fumbles or drops passes, and can be counted on to get at least as many yards as a play is designed to gain. I could be very wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if he had 200 touches this year and like others, hope very much that he significantly reduces the number of plays where Josh Allen is the designated runner.

 

You can't hit a home run for an elite difference maker with every draft pick.

 

 

 

Yes. Firstly let's not pretend that it's gonna be difficult to replace Gabriel Davis.

 

Secondly Diggs mentally checked out in the last half of the season. There's good documentation that he was not being bracketed by defenses and good documentation that he was taking himself out of games. And there's no disputing that there were several clutch, difference-making plays where he simply dropped perfectly-thrown balls.

 

I agree that it's not a given that Diggs won't be missed but by the same token, I don't think it's a compelling argument to say that he'll be sorely missed either.

 

The greater point is that good organizations can have solid drafts which incrementally improve the team and I really like this draft. I pretty much love every pick they made except for the rugby player, and I can understand that pick even though I don't like it.

 

 

I'm not pretending Davis will be difficult to replace. I was one of his consistent critics. I also acknowledge Diggs was not good the second-half of the season, so nothing I am saying is obviated by those truths. I also liked the draft, apart from settling for Coleman as the sole WR taken, and have said as much several times on these boards. Nor am I unable to see that Beane could not have covered so many holes and acquired two WRs early. Further, I am not chagrined that Beane failed to select a day 3 WR.

 

All that said, I can only restate that the dreadful nature of the WR room at the end of 2023 does not mean taking Coleman and the free agent additions to date are somehow a tangible improvement to the WR room. The inadequacy at the end of last season ought not to justify the kind of investment shown by Beane. I think more was needed.

 

You are free to disagree, of course, and you are generally a bright and witty poster. Nonetheless, I have a hard time seeing the current WR room contributing to significant offensive prowess, though Brady may have an offensive strategy involving RBs, TEs, and burly WRs to mitigate those fears. 

[Sierra Foothills]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm not pretending Davis will be difficult to replace. I was one of his consistent critics. I also acknowledge Diggs was not good the second-half of the season, so nothing I am saying is obviated by those truths. I also liked the draft, apart from settling for Coleman as the sole WR taken, and have said as much several times on these boards. Nor am I unable to see that Beane could not have covered so many holes and acquired two WRs early. Further, I am not chagrined that Beane failed to select a day 3 WR.

 

All that said, I can only restate that the dreadful nature of the WR room at the end of 2023 does not mean taking Coleman and the free agent additions to date are somehow a tangible improvement to the WR room. The inadequacy at the end of last season ought not to justify the kind of investment shown by Beane. I think more was needed.

 

You are free to disagree, of course, and you are generally a bright and witty poster. Nonetheless, I have a hard time seeing the current WR room contributing to significant offensive prowess, though Brady may have an offensive strategy involving RBs, TEs, and burly WRs to mitigate those fears. 

 

I agree with you (as usual) that the Bills addressing of WR this offseason has been a bit underwhelming and I've been trying to feel better about it.

 

Not directed at you but posters here complain generally that we didn't do enough in that regard and that we should have traded up/not traded down/drafted a different player. That said I believe most of us were onboard with the 2 trade downs and thrilled with the acquisition of a 3rd rounder.

 

So I'm interested to know which WRs some of the posters would have preferred the Bills to draft instead of Cole Bishop at #60 or instead of DeWayne Carter at #95?

 

BTW I peaked at the remaining free agent WRs and the list is not very exciting... it's too bad the market didn't wait until June 1st.

 

Tyler Boyd

Michael Thomas

Hunter Renfrow

Zay Jones

Mecole Hardman

Marquez Valdes-Scantling

Corey Davis

Julio Jones

Russell Gage

Allen Robinson

Alex Erickson

Lynn Bowden

Scotty Miller

Jalen Guyton

Randall Cobb

Sterling Shepard

 

Robbie Chosen

Richie James

Jakeem Grant

[Dr. Who]

24 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I agree with you (as usual) that the Bills addressing of WR this offseason has been a bit underwhelming and I've been trying to feel better about it.

 

Not directed at you but posters here complain generally that we didn't do enough in that regard and that we should have traded up/not traded down/drafted a different player. That said I believe most of us were onboard with the 2 trade downs and thrilled with the acquisition of a 3rd rounder.

 

So I'm interested to know which WRs some of the posters would have preferred the Bills to draft instead of Cole Bishop at #60 or instead of DeWayne Carter at #95?

 

BTW I peaked at the remaining free agent WRs and the list is not very exciting... it's too bad the market didn't wait until June 1st.

 

Tyler Boyd

Michael Thomas

Hunter Renfrow

Zay Jones

Mecole Hardman

Marquez Valdes-Scantling

Corey Davis

Julio Jones

Russell Gage

Allen Robinson

Alex Erickson

Lynn Bowden

Scotty Miller

Jalen Guyton

Randall Cobb

Sterling Shepard

 

Robbie Chosen

Richie James

Jakeem Grant

I'm not at all thrilled with the available free agent WRs. I've already said so many times, it is boring indeed to say again, but I wanted McConkey, who went right after Coleman. There probably was no way to trade up from 60 to get him, and for certain it would have cost a 2025 second rounder and probably more. You wouldn't have gotten Bishop, who I like a lot, and it would have had cascading effects down the rest of the draft.

 

In short, Beane would have had to sacrifice some depth and filling holes to accomplish properly addressing the WR room. I like Carter quite a bit as well, btw. I always took him when available in the mock drafts. He's the right kind of bowling ball, festooned with knives, and articulate, too. 

 

I spend most of my leisure reading philosophy, theology, and literature. I write a Substack, have a published novel, and a four volume work that may be published this year. I'd like the Bills (and Sabres, yes) to play well. I'd love to see a championship for both at least once in my lifetime. But it's hardly the center of life, so any strong convictions folks exhibit here one way or the other do not touch the most important things.

 

That may be heresy with some here, I dunno.

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

You can't seem to comprehend most players like Deion, that you sign for the reasons I stated, have resumes like that.  You don't accept facts anyone else puts out there, for a known reason.

 

Where have I not accepted that? 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:44 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Too bad we never went after DJ Moore.

Also McC & Chinn and last but not least Brian Burns. Seems like we only want the Garbage the Panthers have. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

I generally agree with the doctrine that it's best to draft BPA than for need but as we all know there's no team that ignores need. As you suggest there is a time and place (a round and pick) for when to draft certain positions.

 

However that blanket rule ignores the reality, texture, and nuance of the draft. I think we'd all agree that the best drafters and the best draft picks can come from breaking those rules and recognizing the exceptions to those rules.

 

Regarding the players in question, DeWayne Carter and Ray Davis, it's interesting to look at the context of their picks

 

In the case of Carter, there were 9 DTs taken  in the first 54 picks. The next DT taken was when the Bills took Carter at 95. That triggered another run on DTs, at 97, 105, 109, and 116. That tells me that the Bills valuation was pretty sound.

 

Unlike you and some others, I and some others like Carter and particularly envision him being a valuable addition to the pass rush. Oliver disappeared against the Chiefs and I think that Carter's selection took that into consideration. Interior pressure is important.

 

Regarding Davis, he was the 8th RB taken (#128) and part of a run that started with Jaylen Wright at #120 and that ended with 5 RBs later with Braelon Allen at #134. Again his valuation seems correct and while I don't recall your feelings about Davis, I very much like the player and believe that like Carter, he fills a glaring hole on the roster... a dependable RB who has no weaknesses, never fumbles or drops passes, and can be counted on to get at least as many yards as a play is designed to gain. I could be very wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if he had 200 touches this year and like others, hope very much that he significantly reduces the number of plays where Josh Allen is the designated runner.

 

You can't hit a home run for an elite difference maker with every draft pick.

 

 

 

Yes. Firstly let's not pretend that it's gonna be difficult to replace Gabriel Davis.

 

Secondly Diggs mentally checked out in the last half of the season. There's good documentation that he was not being bracketed by defenses and good documentation that he was taking himself out of games. And there's no disputing that there were several clutch, difference-making plays where he simply dropped perfectly-thrown balls.

 

I agree that it's not a given that Diggs won't be missed but by the same token, I don't think it's a compelling argument to say that he'll be sorely missed either.

 

The greater point is that good organizations can have solid drafts which incrementally improve the team and I really like this draft. I pretty much love every pick they made except for the rugby player, and I can understand that pick even though I don't like it.

 

 

 

 

You sum exactly my point with Carter (who I don't dislike, just think took him earlier than I would). There was a run a DTs. They needed a DT and therefore their choice at the end of the 3rd round was about filling that gap. That is exactly what I think happened, potentially above and beyond board value. Especially as they wanted a DT last year too and didn't get one and it has left them in a bit of a hole with Ed basically the only DT on the roster beyond the immediate short term. 

 

On Davis he was my R6. I had a pretty clear top 5 - four of whom went day 2 and Wright who the Dolphins gave up a 2025 3rd for early on day 3. Davis is a good back and he was my best of the rest. Again they had a big hole behind Cook. It was a need. But is still a low premium position. Cook is still more talented. He is going to be RB1. So it is a 4th rounder for someone who at least the next two years is a backup running back.

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Where have I not accepted that? 

 

By posting this, when no one made any suggestion resembling this was the expectation of Deion.

 

How many guys with that resume make a difference in the NFL week to week? 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

By posting this, when no one made any suggestion resembling this was the expectation of Deion.

 

How many guys with that resume make a difference in the NFL week to week? 

 

I was having a conversation with @JerseyBills who was saying he was one of the best LBers in the game in Madden 4 years ago. I was replying to him explaining his career trajectory. You decided for reasons unknown to insert yourself into the conversation to suggest that I was somehow misleading him (I wasn't) with the 4th team in 4 years. 

 

If your original point was "yea it's 4 in 4 years but that is not that uncommon for dust settles FAs like this to fill out the backend of rosters" the conversation would have ended there. Because you are right on that. Instead you claimed I was trying to "make it sound more dramatic." Which I wasn't. I was just presenting a fact. 

 

At no stage did I not accept it was common. It is. It is also uncommon for those guys to make significant impacts for their teams. Both are true. 

[White Linen]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

This you?

 

I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe when went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency.

 

The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

 

He did provide volume.  Targets are the stat you choose as your hill.  You're the one that says you know what will happen this year, yet preach to me.  You don't see the future and can't admit the past, yes, we need to be better around here.

 

You think being smug makes you smart.  When it's actually your inability to accept any opinion except your own - that contributes to the negative of TBD.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was having a conversation with @JerseyBills who was saying he was one of the best LBers in the game in Madden 4 years ago. I was replying to him explaining his career trajectory. You decided for reasons unknown to insert yourself into the conversation to suggest that I was somehow misleading him (I wasn't) with the 4th team in 4 years. 

 

If your original point was "yea it's 4 in 4 years but that is not that uncommon for dust settles FAs like this to fill out the backend of rosters" the conversation would have ended there. Because you are right on that. Instead you claimed I was trying to "make it sound more dramatic." Which I wasn't. I was just presenting a fact. 

 

At no stage did I not accept it was common. It is. It is also uncommon for those guys to make significant impacts for their teams. Both are true. 

 

You can't understand he's been on 3 teams?  Saying it's 4, is adding fluff.  

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

He did provide volume.  Targets are the stat you choose as your hill.  You're the one that says you know what will happen this year, yet preach to me.  You don't see the future and can't admit the past, yes, we need to be better around here.

 

You think being smug makes you smart.  When it's actually your inability to accept any opinion except your own - that contributes to the negative of TBD.

 

You can't understand he's been on 3 teams?  Saying it's 4, is adding fluff.  

Bro, you’re tripling down?!? He was thrown the ball 45 times last year. What is a better volume stat for a WR than targets? 🤣🤣 That was tied with Nick Westbrook Ikhine and 1 behind Luke Musgrave. I believe that was 113th. Just stop or I’m going to continue dragging you and your false information. 
 

For the 100th time, no one knows what will happen this year. What we do know, is he was effective with 45 balls thrown his way. Stop arguing with facts.