Camp Battles

[BillsFanForever19]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Safeties fixed.

 

PS I used the positions listed on Spotrac.  Williams is listed as a DE and Jonathan as a DT.  It doesn’t really change much as Jonathan is likely to make to the team and Williams is in a huge camp battle. 

 

And Von Miller is listed as a LB and Jordan Phillips as a DE. That's not what they are though. Spotrac can have Williams listed as DE and Jonathan listed as a DT - but that's not what they are either. Jonathan plays exclusively on the Edge and Williams plays exclusively in the Middle (unless in a 3-4 alignment, which we don't employ).

Edited May 2 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Good stuff as always from you.

 

I think we'll keep 6 WR's this year. We kept 5 last season, but that was an anomaly based on wanting to keep 12 DL's (which was an anomaly in and of itself as the number is usually 10). Every other year under this regime they've kept 6 and multiple years they've kept 7. I think we sign another veteran WR post 6/1 and then it ends up being a camp battle for the last spot with Justin Shorter having the edge, all things equal.

 

Agreed on the DL. I think we'll keep 5 DE's and 5 DT's. Everyone you listed is safe IMO. Leaves one DT spot that I think goes to DeShawn Williams and one DE spot which will be a battle between Casey Toohill and Kingsley Jonathan. I believe Toohill takes it as his experience and production is better than Jonathan's and I think they view Jonathan as a Brandin Bryant type that lives on the PS until there's an injury and if they lose him, they don't really sweat it. Like a Bryant or Ankou, he seems to always find his way back. Linebackers - they could keep 6. But I lean towards them keeping 5, with either Nicholas Morrow or Baylon Spector being the odd man out. The number is usually 5, 6 seems a little high, given we only employ 2 LB's on the field.

 

When it comes to OL, the number is usually 9. I don't see us keeping 5 OT's. I think it really comes down to either Grable impresses and takes to it quicker than expected - or he's cut and Collins is here. I don't think they're particularly concerned that someone's going to sign the 204th pick in the Draft to their 53 otherwise. I don't see us keeping 9-10 of our 10 Draft Picks. I think it will be 8, which is already a really high number for us (Grable and Clayton being out unless they are undeniable). Hardy, although taken after Grable, has an edge because there's a wide open spot for backup Nickel and KR/PR. I see Dawkins, Brown, Van Demark, and then either Collins or Grable (with Gouraige and Doyle Wild Cards) at OT. And for interior, McGovern, Torrence, Edwards, Van Pran, and then almost definitely Anderson - but he'll battle with the likes of Clapp, Clayton, and Bills.

 

I see no route to Spector being cut. He is a core STer and they have lost guys in that room AND he played well when called upon at LB last year. Morrow is a bit more of a chance but I suspect he makes it. 

[billybrew1]

57 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Clapp - That dead cap doesn't matter really.  Rookie 5th round pick will likely have a sub 1M cap hit.  Clapp counted 1.15M against the cap, the 287.5K is basically the difference between the rookie contract and clapp's.  

 

Collins has played guard and tackle in the past, the contract is pretty affordable and he's started a lot of games.  

 

57 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Clapp - That dead cap doesn't matter really.  Rookie 5th round pick will likely have a sub 1M cap hit.  Clapp counted 1.15M against the cap, the 287.5K is basically the difference between the rookie contract and clapp's.  

 

Collins has played guard and tackle in the past, the contract is pretty affordable and he's started a lot of games.  

I am surprised Collin’s has guaranteed money….

[BillsFanForever19]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I see no route to Spector being cut. He is a core STer and they have lost guys in that room AND he played well when called upon at LB last year. Morrow is a bit more of a chance but I suspect he makes it. 

 

The extremely recent addition of Deion Jones throws a wrinkle into the LB depth of the 53. Given his status as a player over the past couple seasons, he'll have to earn it as well. I tend to agree Spector has an edge and is most likely the 5th LB. I'll still believe we're keeping 6 when I see it though. Though it is possible if they feel Morrow is a key contributor on ST. If they do keep 6, it will be either Morrow or Jones.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Shorter, Hamler  PS: Shavers, Cephus, Isabella

This battle feels like that old movie poster.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

The way I see it QB, RB and TE are set. I think Coleman, Shakir, Samuel and Hollins are probably in at receiver. One or two spots left to shoot for. Back of the OL room is a battle. If they want to keep Grable I think he might have to go on the 53. 

 

On defense back end of the DL is a competition. I reckon the top 4 DTs - Ed, Daquan, Johnson and Carter are set. I think at edge Groot, AJE, Von are set and Solomon is probably in to protect their investment (unless he looks way out of his depth then watch for the old Brandon Beane redhsirt IR special). That leaves 1 or 2 spots there for the rest. Linebackers I agree they will keep 6 and they are pretty set. I think Hardy is a lock at corner though. He was drafted to be a backup corner and their primary returner. He is in. Lewis will make it but as the 4th safety behind Bishop, Rapp and Edwards. Hamlin will be cut. 

Are you sure Coleman is a lock?  From what I am reading on this forum, he sounds like a roster bubble player.

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are you sure Coleman is a lock?  From what I am reading on this forum, he sounds like a roster bubble player.

 

Correct.  I've heard he's slow.

[Desert Bills Fan]

I think Hamlin loses out this year.

and based on 2 special teams gaffes from last year: a successful fake punt - pass to his side that he blew coverage on.

and the Bills fake punt that he looked surprised on- and ran it nowhere, i think I’ve seen enough.

a great sympathy  / comeback story. But he’s just not good enough.

[khlax3]

I think most of the roster is pretty much set but there will certainly be some interesting battles in camp at a few positions:

 

Saftey- Lewis vs Hamlin

 

LB- Jones vs Spector vs Ulofoshio for 2 spots

 

DE- Toohill vs Jonathan 

 

Rb- Johnson’s vs Frank Gore Jr

 

OT- Collins vs Gramble vs Doyle vs Vandermark for 2 spots

 

IOL- Anderson vs Clapp 

 

WR- Hamler vs Shorter vs Isabella vs Shavers vs Cepheus for 2 spots 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think Hardy has a real shot to make this team. First off as depth at CB. I can see them wanting someone young back there to keep the pipeline full. Second, he was one of the top rated returners in the nation last year in college. Chances are good he gets a shot and that's what may earn him not only a roster spot...but a jersey bon Sundays.

 

Have to remember as well, we lost some core ST guys this year such as Matakevich and Neal. They may or may not be replaced by guys with the same core position so it may play into carrying less at some spots and more at others than we have in years past. The new kickoff/coverage rules may also alter the numbers a tad as well 

Yea the competition for the 53rd could be him and hamler for instance

 

 Not the same group but I wouldn’t be shocked 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I was looking at some of the projections of the 53 man roster from the Rochester paper and the Athletic and some interesting camp battles become clear from their articles.

 

I think the roster looks something like this

 

Offense: 24 players (8 of 11 starters return)

QB - (2) Allen & Trubisky

RB - (4) Cook, Davis, Johnson, & Gilliam  PS: Gore Jr

TE - (3) Kincaid, Knox, & Morris

WR - (6) Shakir, Coleman, Samuel, Hollins, Shorter, Hamler  PS: Shavers, Cephus, Isabella

C - (2) McGovern & Van Pran  Cut: Clapp (dead cap 287,500)

OG - (3) Edwards, Torrence, Anderson

OT - (4) Dawkins, Brown, Van Denmark, Collins  PS: Grable, Clayton Cut: Doyle (dead cap 78391)

 

Defense: 26 players (8 of 11 starters return)

DT - (5) Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter & Jonathan PS: Ankou & Cline

DE/Edge (5) Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Solomon & Toohill  PS/Cut: Williams

LB - (6) Milano, Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, & Spector

CB - (6) T Johnson, Douglas, Benford, Elam, Lewis & Ingram  PS: Hardy

S - Rapp, Edwards, Bishops, Hamlin

 

Sp -(4) Bass (PK), Punter, Ferguson (LS)

 

The Battles

WR - Who will claim the last 2 spots - If I had to bet right now and if no other players are in the mix, I think management goes with Shorter and Hamler.  Shorter has a dead cap hit of 243K.  Hamler likely wins the PK job and therefore we keep 6 WRs instead of last year's 5

C/G - McGovern is penciled in a the starter at C after being the starter a G last year.  If rookie Van Pran makes an impact in camp, I can see McGovern again going back to guard, sending Edwards to the bench.  The other question is Clapp.   His dead cap is 287.5K.  

OT - I don;t think they'll be much of a battle for the OT backup jobs, but it will be interesting to see if Collins (dead cap 1.5 million) has anything left and whether any of the kids are worth while.

 

Defense

DT - The top 4 are written in stone, but the 5th slot is up for grabs between Jonathan, Ankou and Cline.  I'm going to Jonathan

DE - Rookie Solomon is making the team as the 4th edge player.  If we carry a 5th we should see a good battle between Williams and Toohill

LB - The top 3 are written in stone, but I can see 6 LBs on the 53 man roster as they invest in Morrow (750k dead cap), drafted Ulofoshio and Spector looked solid in limited reps.  I think they keep all 6 as someone will certainly steal Spector if cut and sent to the PS.

CB - Top 4 set in stone.  Lewis' versatility also makes him a lock.  The question is can Hardy and/or Ingram show enough to earn a job.

S - Edwards and Rapp are the presumed starters, but I think Bishop has a good shot at unseating one of them.  I also wonder if Beane brings in more help here and where does that leave Hamlin?

 

Punter battle - Martin, Haack & a UDFA. I'm rooting for the kid.

 

 

Good shot at it

 

Small nit you by DT Jonathan, I assume you mean Kingsley Jonathan.  He's a DE.

Couple of quick comments: Hamler I think has returned like, 2 or 3 punts his rookie year. When he has more years in the league than punt returns, I don't think he's our PR.  The Smurf CB we drafted (Hardy) has punt returner and gunner experience, so there's that. 

 

And of course.....Coleman can return punts. heh.  

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Desert Bills Fan said:

I think Hamlin loses out this year.

and based on 2 special teams gaffes from last year: a successful fake punt - pass to his side that he blew coverage on.

and the Bills fake punt that he looked surprised on- and ran it nowhere, i think I’ve seen enough.

a great sympathy  / comeback story. But he’s just not good enough.

 

It's possible.  Last year, Hamlin was probably a better safety and not as good ST guy as Zane Anderson coming out of camp, better choice than Jared Mayden or Dean Marlowe but that's a low bar.

 

This year we have Rapp and Edwards, we just drafted Bishop in the 2nd so I think he's a lock....I don't know.  I guess I'm hoping we make another move at Safety to bring in someone good, but, if we think our starting safeties are some mixture of Rapp, Edwards and Bishop, maybe we roll with Lewis as a backup, maybe we keep both Lewis and Hamlin.  

I think it's possible we roll with Lewis as our 4th backup Safety, and keep Hardy on the 53 man roster as a punt returner and wasn't it said he could play slot corner?

[GASabresIUFan]

I have corrected the OP to properly reflect Jonathan & DeShawn Williams positions.  

[NeverOutNick]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The way I see it QB, RB and TE are set. I think Coleman, Shakir, Samuel and Hollins are probably in at receiver. One or two spots left to shoot for. Back of the OL room is a battle. If they want to keep Grable I think he might have to go on the 53. 

 

On defense back end of the DL is a competition. I reckon the top 4 DTs - Ed, Daquan, Johnson and Carter are set. I think at edge Groot, AJE, Von are set and Solomon is probably in to protect their investment (unless he looks way out of his depth then watch for the old Brandon Beane redhsirt IR special). That leaves 1 or 2 spots there for the rest. Linebackers I agree they will keep 6 and they are pretty set. I think Hardy is a lock at corner though. He was drafted to be a backup corner and their primary returner. He is in. Lewis will make it but as the 4th safety behind Bishop, Rapp and Edwards. Hamlin will be cut. 

Think you nailed it brother. I wouldn’t keep 6 LBs but McD will I’m sure. I also agree on the 4 WR locks. They need to make it a fair competition for the other 2 spots if they don’t bring in a vet. There’s no reason to just let Shorter have a spot just because he was a 5th rounder last year. I’d love to see Hamler get a legit shot at being the deep threat and would also be on board with bringing in another outside threat either in trade (Aiyuk) or after a few more vets get cut from making room for the rooks. I also really liked Cephus coming out but not sure he fits what we need outside. He was pretty clutch across the middle at Wisconsin though 

Edited May 3 by NeverOutNick

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The extremely recent addition of Deion Jones throws a wrinkle into the LB depth of the 53. Given his status as a player over the past couple seasons, he'll have to earn it as well. I tend to agree Spector has an edge and is most likely the 5th LB. I'll still believe we're keeping 6 when I see it though. Though it is possible if they feel Morrow is a key contributor on ST. If they do keep 6, it will be either Morrow or Jones.

 

This is how i see it with 6

 

Q

 

[Don Otreply]

I would like Van Pran to flat out win the  center job, if that happens we would have really good odds that the O-line will be noticeably above the league average production wise, Imo this is key to our “new” offense getting off to a great start, fingers crossed 🤞 

 

[Sargent Hulka]

20 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I was looking at some of the projections of the 53 man roster from the Rochester paper and the Athletic and some interesting camp battles become clear from their articles.

 

I think the roster looks something like this

 

Offense: 24 players (8 of 11 starters return)

QB - (2) Allen & Trubisky

RB - (4) Cook, Davis, Johnson, & Gilliam  PS: Gore Jr

TE - (3) Kincaid, Knox, & Morris

WR - (6) Shakir, Coleman, Samuel, Hollins, Shorter, Hamler  PS: Shavers, Cephus, Isabella

C - (2) McGovern & Van Pran  Cut: Clapp (dead cap 287,500)

OG - (3) Edwards, Torrence, Anderson

OT - (4) Dawkins, Brown, Van Denmark, Collins  PS: Grable, Clayton Cut: Doyle (dead cap 78391)

 

Defense: 26 players (8 of 11 starters return)

DT - (5) Oliver, Jones, Johnson, Carter & Williams PS: Ankou & Cline

DE/Edge (5) Rousseau, Epenesa, Miller, Solomon & Jonathan  PS/Cut: Toohill 

LB - (6) Milano, Bernard, Williams, Ulofoshio, Morrow, & Spector EDIT: Cut Jones?

CB - (6) T Johnson, Douglas, Benford, Elam, Lewis & Ingram  PS: Hardy

S - (4) Rapp, Edwards, Bishops, Hamlin

 

Sp -(4) Bass (PK), Punter, Ferguson (LS), Hamler/Hardy or someone else (KR)

 

The Battles

WR - Who will claim the last 2 spots - If I had to bet right now and if no other players are in the mix, I think management goes with Shorter and Hamler.  Shorter has a dead cap hit of 243K.  Hamler likely wins the PK job and therefore we keep 6 WRs instead of last year's 5

C/G - McGovern is penciled in a the starter at C after being the starter a G last year.  If rookie Van Pran makes an impact in camp, I can see McGovern again going back to guard, sending Edwards to the bench.  The other question is Clapp.   His dead cap is 287.5K.  

OT - I don;t think they'll be much of a battle for the OT backup jobs, but it will be interesting to see if Collins (dead cap 1.5 million) has anything left and whether any of the kids are worth while.

 

Defense

DT - The top 4 are written in stone, but the 5th slot is up for grabs between Williams, Ankou and Cline.  I'm going to Williams

DE - Rookie Solomon is making the team as the 4th edge player.  If we carry a 5th we should see a good battle between Jonathan and Toohill

LB - The top 3 are written in stone, but I can see 6 LBs on the 53 man roster as they invest in Morrow (750k dead cap), drafted Ulofoshio and Spector looked solid in limited reps.  I think they keep all 6 as someone will certainly steal Spector if cut and sent to the PS.  Apparently we are adding a 7th LB to the mix in for pro-bowler Deion Jones.

CB - Top 4 set in stone.  Lewis' versatility also makes him a lock.  The question is can Hardy and/or Ingram show enough to earn a job.

S - Edwards and Rapp are the presumed starters, but I think Bishop has a good shot at unseating one of them.  I also wonder if Beane brings in more help here and where does that leave Hamlin?

 

Punter battle - Martin, Haack & a UDFA. I'm rooting for the kid.

 

Good info, also appreciate your insights over on the Aud Club forum.

[LABILLBACKER]

With the Claypool signing, I'd say there's only 3 locks at wr. Shakir, Samuel and Coleman. After those guys, anything can happen based on motivation and desire. This is not a great wr room but the battle between Shorter, Shavers, Hamler, Hollins, Cephus, Claypool and Isabella should be entertaining. 

[GASabresIUFan]

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/offseason-restructure-gives-the-bills-more-roster-battles-than-theyve-had-in-years/article_6427b6e0-08c0-11ef-b12b-9fb453dc3f54.html
 

@LABILLBACKER  Hollins is making the team.  His dead cap is 1.1 million.  He was signed to be a special teams ace and WR depth.  Camp will determine whether he;ll be WR 4 or WR 5, but he’ll be active every week.

[Robert Paulson]

22 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

See you left out RB, I think it may be a battle between Johnson and Gore Jr with Gore winning the battle based on pedigree.

Why the hate on Johnson? Everyone has him as a cut. He ran hard last year. His pass protection was fine and he has a low cap hit.

 

Why is everyone acting like he was Reggie Bush running backwards in mud? You have to have some experience there besides Cook.