Good article on the value of the 40 yd. dash

[Dubie54]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39632786/xavier-worthy-nfl-combine-40-yard-dash-becoming-obsolete
 

 

I would much rather have a receiver who plays faster than his pure 40 speed, has great hands, is excellent in bringing down contested passes and is extremely fluid in his route running rather than someone who is simply a blazer.

 

I will defer to Beane and team on the Coleman pick and assume they have looked at hours of tape on this kid, not just a 4 minute highlight reel, and have concluded that this kid “plays fast” and has the attributes they wanted in a wr, just like they did when they drafted JA. Remember all the crap about Josh that he wasn’t accurate and didn’t play at a big time school, etc, etc. 

 

No one knows how Coleman will turn out as a pro, but I am very optimistic about what he brings to the team and think he will be a solid addition to the wr corp and has the potential to be a Larry Fitzgerald type of receiver in Brady’s system.

 

 

[Sweats]

I can tell by most of the threads and posts berating the pick, that they've never watched him play at Michigan or FSU and only watched a YouTube video, so they must be accurate talent evaluators......UGH.

 

I'm telling you, this kid has talent, he's got grit, he's hungry, he's a big bodied WR who will punish guys at the LOS to create space, he strives for YAC and never gives up on a play.........this kid is going to be electric.

[JerseyBills]

ya the obsession of guys running fast in shorts has always boggled my mind. This is football, not track n field 

[UConn James]

What gets me is posters here who compare guys’ speeds that were run at the combine 5 or 8 years ago, as if they certainly could do that today.
 

There are a few tricks one can do to achieve a faster 40 time, that are then gone after they run for the combine & pro days. There’s 40 speed and then there’s football speed. It’s tantamount to cramming for a test vis. short-term memory when the goal of an education is / should be learning & wisdom. Two different things.

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

ya the obsession of guys running fast in shorts has always boggled my mind. This is football, not track n field 

 

This board’s sudden and enthusiastic dedication to the “fast 40 time” straw man is impressive. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

15 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

This board’s sudden and enthusiastic dedication to the “fast 40 time” straw man is impressive. 

 

Accuracy rate

[Ralonzo]

Is this still about Coleman? The 40 has a lot of non-football applicable track stuff associated with it. It's a good measure but not the be-all end-all. However:

 

The GPS tracked peak speed IS football applicable, very much so. Coleman never hit 20mph last year. That is what concerns me. For someone who "plays faster" he's not moving fast.

[Pete]

Wide receiver is a very nuanced position.  Catch rate is important.  Coleman-Shakir-Dalton all have mitts!  I believe the Bills receivers sum is greater than their parts.  Individually they possess different traits, collectively they will put stress on a two high shell.

13 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Is this still about Coleman? The 40 has a lot of non-football applicable track stuff associated with it. It's a good measure but not the be-all end-all. However:

 

The GPS tracked peak speed IS football applicable, very much so. Coleman never hit 20mph last year. That is what concerns me. For someone who "plays faster" he's not moving fast.

Coleman hit 20 mph on the gauntlet, and was the smoothest and fastest at that drill

[Dubie54]

15 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Is this still about Coleman? The 40 has a lot of non-football applicable track stuff associated with it. It's a good measure but not the be-all end-all. However:

 

The GPS tracked peak speed IS football applicable, very much so. Coleman never hit 20mph last year. That is what concerns me. For someone who "plays faster" he's not moving fast.

This year, Coleman took home the honor of the fastest gauntlet time (20.36 MPH), the second fastest “go route” time (21.71 MPH)—behind only Thomas—as well as landing in the top four of several other categories Next Gen Stats GPS tracks.

Coleman’s game film points to his route precision needing to be cleaned up, but in on-field drills, you could tell he is working on that part of his game. While going full speed through the routes, Coleman stayed on course and covered ground very quickly. He got low into his breaks and showed explosion getting out of them. His length showed up in his stride and catching radius, and his hands looked very solid on the day as a whole.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

I can tell by most of the threads and posts berating the pick, that they've never watched him play at Michigan or FSU and only watched a YouTube video, so they must be accurate talent evaluators......UGH.

 

I'm telling you, this kid has talent, he's got grit, he's hungry, he's a big bodied WR who will punish guys at the LOS to create space, he strives for YAC and never gives up on a play.........this kid is going to be electric.

Sweats brother, spot on.  This kid is VERY coachable and is excited to be here. Fans need to watch him flat out violate LSU last year to know what they are getting.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

I can tell by most of the threads and posts berating the pick, that they've never watched him play at Michigan or FSU and only watched a YouTube video, so they must be accurate talent evaluators......UGH.

 

I'm telling you, this kid has talent, he's got grit, he's hungry, he's a big bodied WR who will punish guys at the LOS to create space, he strives for YAC and never gives up on a play.........this kid is going to be electric.

This and I will take a step further…they also don’t understand the fundamentals of what makes a good WR, the fundamentals of how you get separation, and how little weight the Game/scouts give the 40 time as a stand alone evaluation vs the sum of all the parts, combine events, and tape.  Fans seem to think the 40 time is everything.  

 

GMs, including our Beane who has said it many times, understand a guy can go out at the combine and either have an off day or have gone out to train on how to excel at combine and put up big results.  Neither scenario CHANGES THE TAPE.  You can’t over weigh the combine results good or bad versus the tape.  Combine is a part of the story, it is not the complete story.  
 

Coleman for example didn’t get his best 40 time at combine but then went on to crush the much more important gauntlet and then ran a cleaner 40 and improved to 4.51 at his pro day.  
 

Xavier Worthy on the other hand trained specifically to beat the combine time record.  He trained in sprinting and lightened his frame.  Thats not his real game speed.  Still has elite speed of course, but he did that to set a record, it’s a show to try and raise his draft stock and profile. 

Edited April 29 by Alphadawg7

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, UConn James said:

What gets me is posters here who compare guys’ speeds that were run at the combine 5 or 8 years ago, as if they certainly could do that today.
 

There are a few tricks one can do to achieve a faster 40 time, that are then gone after they run for the combine & pro days. There’s 40 speed and then there’s football speed. It’s tantamount to cramming for a test vis. short-term memory when the goal of an education is / should be learning & wisdom. Two different things.

 

Yeah, to run as fast after multiple IR stints, off-season surgeries, and the wear and tear of a 16-17 game schedules.  Even WR's who aren't making contact every play, you still have a guy like Curtis Samuel with more than 4,000 snaps taken in his career.   

[msw2112]

Sure, I would like Coleman's 40 time to be faster.  But apparently, he tests well in other areas.

 

I've seen a few Michigan State and Florida State games over the last few years, and Coleman was dominant.  And I'm neither a Michigan State nor a Florida State fan - in fact, I dislike both teams.  The only time I would watch those teams is if it was a big game against a big time opponent.  And in those games, Coleman was arguably the best player on the field.  If it translates to the NFL, the Bills will have a special player.  Larry Fitzgerald and Terrell Suggs did not have good 40 times and they turned out OK.  That doesn't mean that Coleman will be Hall of Fame player, but it does demonstrate that a 40 time is not everything, and in some cases, it doesn't mean that much.

Edited April 29 by msw2112

[Dunkirk Donski]

He slow

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Dunkirk Donski said:

He slow

be grateful for that

 

if he was fast we wouldn't have been able to draft him

[Dunkirk Donski]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

be grateful for that

 

if he was fast we wouldn't have been able to draft him

 

But he IS fast

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, Dunkirk Donski said:

 

But he IS fast

 a fast 40 time i meant

[strive_for_five_guy]

So we don’t like the 40 now?

[BullBuchanan]

Isaac Bruce ran a 4.55 40 at 5'11" and 173 pounds and was also drafted #33 overall. He did alright.

[Trust The Process]

The problem with Coleman isn't his lack of speed, but rather his lack of separation.