Coleman Route Speeds

[PBF81]

Having said all that, why the lack of high-end production in college, against weaker DBs than he'll see in the NFL.  A rhetorical question.  

 

 

[harmonkillebrew]

27 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

This is not that. This is his speed in COMBINE DRILLS

exactly.  While it's good to see, it just means he was going for it at the combine drills while others were dogging it. I like that competitiveness, but his lack of long speed shows up on his tapes pretty clearly.

 

Get in to your thick heads people, he's not fast.  He will not be running go routes or taking the tops off of defenses. So we will be faced with the same issue as last year, where Defenses collapse on the short stuff.  But he could/should excel underneath. He might end up more like Anquan Bolden - thriving underneath and breaking tackles to get 1st downs. 

[Bangarang]

Who was in Group 8 with him and what were their times? Those rankings weren't among all WRs at the combine FWIW.

[MarlinTheMagician]

W\

1 minute ago, harmonkillebrew said:

exactly.  While it's good to see, it just means he was going for it at the combine drills while others were dogging it. I like that competitiveness, but his lack of long speed shows up on his tapes pretty clearly.

 

Get in to your thick heads people, he's not fast.  He will not be running go routes or taking the tops off of defenses. So we will be faced with the same issue as last year, where Defenses collapse on the short stuff.  But he could/should excel underneath. He might end up more like Anquan Bolden - thriving underneath and breaking tackles to get 1st downs. 

Why in the world would others be "dogging it' at the combine that defines their pay for the next 4-5 years?  That rings hollow with me.  If they were, I don't want any of those guys.

[warrior9]

No man, he's slow... can't separate.

 

We needed a 6'1 170 pound receiver that is so good that our GM traded out of the spot instead of taking him. 

[harmonkillebrew]

6 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

W\

Why in the world would others be "dogging it' at the combine that defines their pay for the next 4-5 years?  That rings hollow with me.  If they were, I don't want any of those guys.

What the commentators said, was a lack of trust/confidence in their hands. Others were going slow to make sure they didn't have a drop.  Coleman was hitting it. Which is a good sign of his confidence and competitiveness. But doesn't mean he's fast.  He does seem to have good short area speed, given his 10yd split and gauntlet speed, but the long speed is not there (hence consistent 4.62 40 and tape showing him blanketed on downfield routes)

[Royale with Cheese]

42 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

 

Why even write something this ridiculous?

 

[harmonkillebrew]

46 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

Haha, its true, he was entirely out of bounds on that last ball.

I like his competitiveness though. 

[Mat68]

He doest have that extra gear some possess.  For what he loses in linear speed he makes up with in size and movement ability.  His ability with the ball in his hands is that of a smaller Wr.  I think that lends well to developing and polishing his route running ability.  More I look into him I can get behind it.  Instead of harping on why I liked someone else Im looking at why he can be successful. 
 

Pre draft I used his 40 as a reason why you dont take him at 28.  They move to 33 not much difference but adding a 3rd and getting a DT that could become a 1T is big.  Compared to everyone else in the range I can see why Buffalo liked him more.  His age and athleticism are very high.  If developed could be a number 1.  Outside of the top 3 not many in the class have that upside. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

And for those asking about "Group 8" - that may just be a NextGen Stats thing.  HIs Gauntlet and "GO" results are from among all wideouts it appears.  From the Lions pre-draft fan board:

 

Keon Coleman, Florida State (6-foot-3 1⁄4, 213 pounds)

 

The former Michigan State product may have turned some fans away with his 4.61 40-yard dash—the second slowest time of the wide receiver group—but for a team like the Lions that value GPS timing over the 40, Coleman is still likely high atop their wide receiver rankings. 

 

As the NFL Network broadcast brought up several times, NFL Rookie of the Year candidate Puka Nacua (4.57 40-yard dash) ran the fastest time in the “gauntlet drill” last year (20.06 MPH), illustrating how his GPS speed translates more than straight-line speed. 

 

This year, Coleman took home the honor of the fastest gauntlet time (20.36 MPH), the second fastest “go route” time (21.71 MPH)—behind only Thomas—as well as landing in the top four of several other categories Next Gen Stats GPS tracks.

 

Coleman’s game film points to his route precision needing to be cleaned up, but in on-field drills, you could tell he is working on that part of his game. While going full speed through the routes, Coleman stayed on course and covered ground very quickly. He got low into his breaks and showed explosion getting out of them. His length showed up in his stride and catching radius, and his hands looked very solid on the day as a whole.

[oldmanfan]

51 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

And there are guys that train with track coaches for the 40 which simulates nothing about actual football plays.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Haha, its true, he was entirely out of bounds on that last ball.

I like his competitiveness though. 

 

Tank Dell did it as well.  

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=863669358074771

 

[oldmanfan]

57 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

exactly.  While it's good to see, it just means he was going for it at the combine drills while others were dogging it. I like that competitiveness, but his lack of long speed shows up on his tapes pretty clearly.

 

Get in to your thick heads people, he's not fast.  He will not be running go routes or taking the tops off of defenses. So we will be faced with the same issue as last year, where Defenses collapse on the short stuff.  But he could/should excel underneath. He might end up more like Anquan Bolden - thriving underneath and breaking tackles to get 1st downs. 

The idea that guys would dog it when every team is watching is silly.  The idea that one 40 time means much is silly.  We will see how they use him and how he performs soon.

 

Get that through your thick head.

Edited April 29 by oldmanfan

[CaliBills]

Didn't Stefon Diggs only run a 4.46 in the 40 time?  and at 6'0 195 lbs that is slow for his size compared to others.  And people will say well it isn't just about 40 time...

 

Keon is 6'4 216 lbs and is .15 seconds slower.   

 

And all it can take to shave that off is a better start out of a three point stance which I might say, NFL WR do not start in.  

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by CaliBills

[MarlinTheMagician]

So Coleman didn't just run the fastest gauntlet time this year, he ran the fastest in the last TWO years.  The fastest last year - who also had a slow 40 -- was Puka Nakua and Coleman was faster than him.  At least Puka didn't jog, and he is not too bad.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

Yes he might’ve gamed it at the end to get to 20+ mph, but Coleman was at 19mph by the first hash mark, compared to Franklin’s 17mph and McConkey’s 18mph.  

Edited April 29 by BuffaloRebound

[K D]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And there are guys that train with track coaches for the 40 which simulates nothing about actual football plays.

It's another piece of the puzzle. We don't need to know his 40 time to know that he's slow. Watch the tape how the db is with him step for step on any route longer than 10 yards 

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

In another thread a poster asked where I found the following.  I post it here in case anyone finds it interesting:

 

yea, well use whatever fancy numbers you want! 40 yard dash time is clearly directly related to NFL success. I mean, here, look at the top 40 yard dash time in history:

 

John Ross (2017) — 4.22 seconds
Henry Ruggs III (2020) — 4.27
Marquise Goodwin (2013) — 4.27
Tyquan Thornton (2022) — 4.28
J.J. Nelson (2015) — 4.28
Jacoby Ford (2010) — 4.28
Darrius Heyward-Bey (2009) — 4.30
Velus Jones Jr. (2022) — 4.31
Parris Campbell (2019) — 4.31
Andy Isabella (2019) — 4.31
Curtis Samuel (2017) — 4.31
Calvin Austin III (2022) — 4.32
Will Fuller (2016) — 4.32
Trey Palmer (2023) — 4.33
Danny Gray (2022) — 4.33
Mecole Hardman (2019) — 4.33
DK Metcalf (2019) — 4.33
Phillip Dorsett (2015) — 4.33
Brandin Cooks (2014) — 4.33
Mike Wallace (2009) — 4.33
Bo Melton (2022) — 4.34
DJ Chark (2018) — 4.34
John Brown (2014) — 4.34
Tavon Austin (2013) — 4.34
Ryan Swope (2013) — 4.34

 

Obviously, a who's who of the hall of fame. Now take a look at some guys on the lower end of the times:

 

Jerry Rice 4.45 (4.7)
Sterling Sharpe 4.44
Devante Adams 4.56
Wayne Chrebet 4.53
Lynn Swann 4.5
Dez Bryant 4.52
Al Toon 4.65
Antonio Brown 4.56
Cooper Kupp 4.62
Chris Carter 4.63
Larry Fitzgerald 4.63
Terell Owens 4.45
Steve Largent 4.70
Mike Evans 4.53
Brandon Marshall 4.52
Hinez Ward 4.55
Brandon Lloyd 4.65
Kennan Allen 4.7
Chad Johnson 4.57
DeAndre Hopkins 4.57
Jarvis Landry 4.77
Allen Robinson 4.6
Laveranues Coles 4.48
CeeDee Lamb 4.5
Kelvin Benjamin 4.61
Anquan Boldin 4.71
Deebo Samuel 4.48
Brandon Aiyuk 4.5
Reggie Wayne 4.5
Plaxico Burress 4.59

 

I think everyone owes @KDIGGZ an apology before he hurts himself twisting himself into knots saying he wasn't equating 40 yard dash time to NFL success. Goalposts are very heavy and difficult to move.

 

 

Edited April 29 by Malazan

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

Ya him and McConkley ran straight. Coleman has phenomenal hands,insticts it seems

[MarlinTheMagician]

40 yard dash time is no more directly related to success than other combine stats, and many state that it does not correlate as well as things like route speed.  It is undeniable. (see NextGen stats), that the trend is towards smaller, lighter and thus faster receivers.  This is proven.  The natural response to that is smaller, lighter faster DBs.  IMHO, it is very smart to run counter-trend at those smaller DBs.  Having a big, bullying WR in the arsenal to swat the nats away.  It is illogical to call Coleman "slow" without considering his weight.  From NextGen:

 

When analyzing speed, it is also crucial to factor in weight. In addition to being the fastest receiver class, the 2024 crop is the second lightest, averaging 196.1 pounds -- lighter than the 2003 class by over 6 pounds. This is not just a one-year anomaly, either. The last four draft classes have featured the four lightest wide receiver groups since 2003. From 2003 to 2020, 820 wide receivers were invited to the combine. Only 25 of them (3 percent) weighed 175 pounds or less. Over these last four draft classes (including the 2024 group), the percentage of players checking in below that weight threshold has more than doubled, to 8.3 percent, with 15 total receivers weighing in at 175 pounds or less.