Coleman Route Speeds

[MarlinTheMagician]

In another thread a poster asked where I found the following.  I post it here in case anyone finds it interesting:

 

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

I am sure most of you know he also ran the second fastest time in the "Gauntlet" at the combine, which many say simulates game speed better than the 40-yard dash.  They are supposed to run it straight across the yardline.  Many can't.  Coleman's straight as an arrow, and his receiving form looks A+ to me.  The video is worth a 10 second watch.

[BarleyNY]

I’ve been hoping to see Coleman’s in game tracking data - especially his speed. This makes me feel a bit better about the selection. 

[K D]

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

[mannc]

This is why MHJ did not run the 40 in Indy (or at his pro day). Even though his top speed is impressive, I believe his 40 time would have been comparable to Coleman’s…

[K D]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

I’ve been hoping to see Coleman’s in game tracking data - especially his speed. This makes me feel a bit better about the selection. 

This is not that. This is his speed in COMBINE DRILLS

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

This is not that. This is his speed in COMBINE DRILLS

Oh crap. I misread that. Thank you for the correction. I won’t bother to find out who was in group 8 then. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's how fast he ran at the combine when everyone else was jogging. He ran himself right out of bounds on that gauntlet drill that everyone keeps linking to. He did it wrong. The whole point is that you are supposed to stay in bounds and tip-toe down the sidelines to show your balance and awareness. He ran 5 yards out of bounds before he figured out where he was on the field

No one is jogging at the combine, are they?  If you say so I am sure he ran out of bounds, but that does not in any way detract from the speeds recorded on the routes or his performance running the Gauntlet.  Tip-toeing comes after the run across the field - the meat of the drill.  So what if he made a mistake?  I can tell you hate the pick, I hated it when made, but there is reason for optimism.  Seems like a good dude - give the young man a chance.  

[K D]

Just now, MarlinTheMagician said:

No one is jogging at the combine, are they?  If you say so I am sure he ran out of bounds, but that does not in any way detract from the speeds recorded on the routes or his performance running the Gauntlet.  Tip-toeing comes after the run across the field - the meat of the drill.  So what if he made a mistake?  I can tell you hate the pick, I hated it when made, but there is reason for optimism.  Seems like a good dude - give the young man a chance.  

I never gave any opinion on the pick at any point other than to provide and respond to data about his speed which people keep trying to make excuses for

[MarlinTheMagician]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

I never gave any opinion on the pick at any point other than to provide and respond to data about his speed which people keep trying to make excuses for

No one said you did give an opinion on the pick, and I am sure no one is tracking that, but you are putting an unnecessarily negative slant on data that is objective.  Example:  you can't know the level of effort other receivers put out when running the four routes.  His ranking in those routes is what it is.  I posted the results without judgment or comment.  They are what they are.  If others jogged, that's on them.   All the best to you bro.

[strive_for_five_guy]

What is his 60-yard dash time?  40-yards is a little irrelevant when Josh is the QB.

[MarlinTheMagician]

And if "others jogged" and Coleman did his best, that is a data point I personally like - effort.  I think the "Go" might simulate the 60 better than the 40.

 

 

Edited April 29 by MarlinTheMagician

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I never gave any opinion on the pick at any point other than to provide and respond to data about his speed which people keep trying to make excuses for

What was MHJ’s 40 time?

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

What was MHJ’s 40 time?

Too swag to run it.  It is a good point. 

[K D]

1 minute ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

No one said you did give an opinion on the pick, and I am sure no one is tracking that, but you are putting an unnecessarily negative slant on data that is objective.  Example:  you can't know the level of effort other receivers put out when running the four routes.  His ranking in those routes is what it is.  I posted the results without judgment or comment.  They are what they are.  If others jogged, that's on them.   All the best to you bro.

Not trying to be difficult just responding to the post. These combine links keep getting posted as evidence that he's not slow. I think we need to compare in game speeds and not drills. But all you have to do is watch his film to see that he has defenders on him every play. Maybe the ACC has amazing db's and he will have better luck in the NFL but I highly doubt that

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

What was MHJ’s 40 time?

All you need to know about MHJ is his jacket size for Canton

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

 

All you need to know about MHJ is his jacket size for Canton

So, no answer?

[K D]

5 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

And if "others jogged" and Coleman did his best, that is a data point I personally like - effort.  I think the "Go" might simulate the 60 better than the 40.

 

 

Well there you go that might be something. He might be slow but he will put in the effort. Hopefully that's the case

Just now, mannc said:

So, no answer?

The answer is watch his film. Everyone knows MHJ is the best WR in the country and is almost always double if not triple teamed. And he still gets open. Nobody is questioning any of his tools. But it's understood by scouts that his 40 time is likely in the 4.3's if you really need to know.

[Sweats]

When i was watching this kid at FSU, people were crowding the stands just to see what he would do next. People were waiting with bated breath to see more and in total awe at some of the unrealistic plays he made every week........sound familiar, sound like anyone on our roster already, sound like a guy that most fans were disappointed with the pick at the time and that our FO chose the wrong guy?

 

You all know who i'm talking about.......give the kid a chance.

I'm telling you, having these 2 guys together is going to be electric.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Well there you go that might be something. He might be slow but he will put in the effort. Hopefully that's the case

The answer is watch his film. Everyone knows MHJ is the best WR in the country and is almost always double if not triple teamed. And he still gets open. Nobody is questioning any of his tools. But it's understood by scouts that his 40 time is likely in the 4.3's if you really need to know.

“Everyone knows…”🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

There is zero evidence—and I mean zero—that Harrison Jr runs a faster 40 than Coleman, and I’ll also say that, like Coleman, MHJ is not really known for his separation…

Edited April 29 by mannc

[MarlinTheMagician]

16 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Not trying to be difficult just responding to the post. These combine links keep getting posted as evidence that he's not slow. I think we need to compare in game speeds and not drills. But all you have to do is watch his film to see that he has defenders on him every play. Maybe the ACC has amazing db's and he will have better luck in the NFL but I highly doubt that

Not trying to be difficult either, but consider that fuller stats being posted (without comment) is a fair response to the relentless insistence that he IS slow based on his 40 - a single data point.  He may or may not be "slow" for the position, but relying heavily on the 40 is neither fair nor sound analysis.  So if you want to say he is slow you need to rely on  game tape.  Interpretation of the tape is intensely subjective.  Beane says he plays faster than his 40.  That is his interpretation.  Coleman's size is a factor, as is his flexibility for such size.  So the smart play, IMHO, is to give the man a chance and not pre-judge it.  And I wanted McConkey.  But now I am a hugely behind Coleman until he gives me a reason not to be.  He has not done so.

Edited April 29 by MarlinTheMagician