What's the point of this team's philosophy?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

Edited April 29 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[TH3]

6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

Go back to sleep

[The Jokeman]

22 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

Bombs away isn't consistent. Yes, Allen can throw it 65 yards down field but to ask a WR to get open on that route or time things perfectly is no easy task as we saw with Diggs' playoff drop. Instead you play small ball to keep moving down field until get a TD or hopefully get a FG aka put points on the board. Sure you can throw a deep pass every so often to take a chance and/or keep the defense honest but to think you're going to hit one with any form of consistency is just foolish. I'll admit Coleman wasn't in my short list of WRs I wanted to us to draft. Yet I've been wrong before as I admit I never expected Josh Allen to be a top 5 NFL QB and even muttered Wrong Josh when he was drafted because watching the clips in college he wasn't always taking the way throw to move the chains and seemed like a guy who threw it long or a ball that most of the time wouldn't get completed. The more you watch the more you realize the best way to beat an opponent is don't beat yourself. As most games nowadays are won and loss by a handful of plays. 

Edited April 29 by The Jokeman

[papazoid]

off load josh ??   that's a very bad idea

[Billzgobowlin]

What we needed to replace in the receiver room was drops.  Replace those guys with players that can consistently catch the ball.  Samuel and Coleman don't drop the ball so I like both being added.  Speed receivers while stretching the field only account for 1-2 throws a game.

[BigDingus]

Because that dries up come winter & playoff time.

 

The deep passing game isn't consistent in wind, cold, and the elements.

 

Look at Mahomes, he also has a great arm, yet he averages the lowest air yards per TD pass. He can easily throw it all over the place, but they prioritize results over everything else.

 

We've always been happy when Josh takes what the defensive gives him & stays patient, so now they're trying to help him be consistent. 

[Billy Claude]

29 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

 

I do worry that the front office is not paying to Allen's strengths.  Allen does not like the short game.  He loses patience with it too easily.  It also requires a lot of pre-snap reads and ball placement which not his forte.  Allen displayed more patience at the end of last season, maybe he will keep it up.

 

However, Allen is also not great at the long bombs.  Yes, you can find instance of crucial drops but it is not all the receivers fault.  He just doesn't put enough air under the ball.  In any case long bombs is not a strategy any team can rely on consistently.

 

What Allen is great at is the intermediate 10 to 25 yard pass.  Until recently Diggs had been pivotal in that role. Hopefully they have a replacement. It is certainly not clear that is the case.

Edited April 29 by Billy Claude

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

Data someone provided yesterday showed that on average there is less than one pass a game thrown 40 yards and over in the NFL.

2 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I do worry that the front office is not paying to Allen's strengths.  Allen does not like the short game.  He loses patience with it too easily.  It also requires a lot of pre-snap reads which not his forte.  He displayed more patience at the end of last season, maybe he will keep it up.

 

However Allen is also not great at the long bombs.  Yes you can find instance of crucial drops but it is not all the receivers fault.

 

What Allen is great at is the intermediate 10 to 25 yard pass.  Until recently Diggs had been pivotal in that role. Hopefully they have a replacement. It is certainly not clear that us the case.

Then maybe he needs to work on his patience

[Dibs]

30 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

 

The point of this team's philosophy is not to ask questions, but to search for answers.

You have much to learn.

[SoonerBillsFan]

Someone posted a link yesterday, Josh only attempted I think 12 or 13 passes over 50 yards all year.  Mahomes attempted less.

 

Look I get it, everyone wants the deep ball and it will happen from last time to time, but it's not a consistency thing. Let Josh get the ball to guys short and medium most of the time, let them get YAC and have sustained drives that end in scoring.  It's what KC and SF does.

 

Yes Josh has one of the strongest arms in THE NFL, but so did Elway. Elway didn't win a superbowl until he ran Shanahans WCO. He let the running game help a ton with both scheme and Davis, and distributed the ball. He let his WR'S  get RAC. and that did open up deeper shots.

[GunnerBill]

In fairness if you are going to build a bombs away offense you need Josh's deep ball to improve massively on where it was for most of 2023.

 

I do agree though, we are an offense at the moment that is kind of forced to play small ball by our personnel. 

[Sweats]

Here's the team's philosophy in a nutshell.....

 

Dominate the middle of the field. 

Instead of relying on the long bombs, make plays in the middle of the field with RPO's, slants, crossing routes, etc. and let your WR's make a play and earn some YAC......kind of like a hybrid West Coast Offense.

 

The game has changed, and the long plays are just not as prevalent as they used to be. Teams are changing their philosophies in terms of plays, coverage, priorities, etc. 

I didn't see it at first, but i am starting to figure it out and lean towards what we're trying to do here......and i like it. McD wants a more balanced team?......this is it.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

Someone posted a link yesterday, Josh only attempted I think 12 or 13 passes over 50 yards all year.  Mahomes attempted less.

 

Look I get it, everyone wants the deep ball and it will happen from last time to time, but it's not a consistency thing. Let Josh get the ball to guys short and medium most of the time, let them get YAC and have sustained drives that end in scoring.  It's what KC and SF does.

 

Yes Josh has one of the strongest arms in THE NFL, but so did Elway. Elway didn't win a superbowl until he ran Shanahans WCO. He let the running game help a ton with both scheme and Davis, and distributed the ball. He let his WR'S  get RAC. and that did open up deeper shots.

Yeah, a lot of people see "arm strength" as being the same as being a deep ball thrower. It's not. I've never seen Josh as being particularly great at throwing deep passes that are on the mark. He'll hit some but many are off target. 

 

Josh's arm strength is apparent in the way that he can fit the ball into smaller windows later in the play than others can. It's the pop in the pass that gets the ball to his guy on a 15 yard out way faster than most QBs. After watching Josh it sometimes feel other guys are throwing lobs. 

 

Also due to modern defense and the way teams have moved more to the 2 deep shell against QBs that pose the big play threat like Allen and Mahomes...the opportunity for the deep play just aren't available. Trying against that look results in the outcome we saw week 1 against the Jets. Incompletions and "arm punts".

 

So what's our offensive philosophy? It's going to have to be working the short to intermediate. Staying patient. And if an opportunity for a big play presents itself...to identify and take advantage. And Josh played some of the best ball of his career down the stretch last year doing just that.

[Rich Stadium Original]

Edit: BuffaloBillyG posed pretty much my answer at the same time

 

Sweats kind of beat me to the punch. Teams with big arm quarterbacks are seeing a lot of cover 2/ 2 deep defensive shells and are very limited on throwing the long ball..think Mahommes was limited on throwing the long ball last year as well.

So what's the solution? A good run game..mismatch tight end...and big playmaking receivers that have good RAC...

Pretty obvious why Beane went the direction he did based on this philosophy. 

Edited April 29 by Rich Stadium Original

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, Rich Stadium Original said:

Edit: BuffaloBillyG posed pretty much my answer at the same time

 

Sweats kind of beat me to the punch. Teams with big arm quarterbacks are seeing a lot of cover 2/ 2 deep defensive shells and are very limited on throwing the long ball..think Mahommes was limited on throwing the long ball last year as well.

So what's the solution? A good run game..mismatch tight end...and big playmaking receivers that have good RAC...

Pretty obvious why Beane went the direction he did based on this philosophy. 

Some really reasonable answers in this thread.

 

 

[Sweats]

Here's the thing......as much as team don't want to admit it, NE was ahead of the curve for like 20 years against the rest of the league.

 

How many times did Brady throw long bombs?.....maybe a handful when they had Moss, but the rest of his throws for 20 years was over the middle, dink and dunk, carve and slice up the middle with decent WR's and a dominant TE and rely on them to make whatever YAC the D would allow.

 

This philosophy dominated the entire league for 20 years. KC has been using it for the past 3 years, so it was only a matter of time before we started using it.

We have decent WR's, a good, maybe great TE and finally have somewhat of a running game........fans like to moan that we're in worse shape this year than last and i disagree. Our philosophy is changing and so too must our roster and play calling.

 

We'll be fine.

[Mr. WEO]

"maybe next year"

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I agree OP, the Bills with Josh Allen should be the most explosive team in the league every year. I disagree with their whole philosophy. What are you gonna do

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You have a QB that's a Maserati. He's built for bombs away. But instead of building your offense for that, you build it for plodding, 10 yards at a time max, 10 minute drive offense. So I ask, what is the point?

 

What's the point of having a guy who's designed by nature to bomb the football deep and whose weakness is dink and dunk stuck in an offensive scheme that is built to do just that?

 

Why not offload him for someone who's better suited for that kind of thing if you refuse to play to his strengths? That's what I can't wrap my head around. It makes no sense.

McD does this to protect his D. Remember the Bengals game last year when they come out in the no huddle and the easily walked down the field? After McDs D gave up its second TD he slowed the offense down so it wouldn’t become a shootout.

All about protecting his D. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve never understood this take on Josh Allen. His strength is NOT the deep ball. In fact the deep ball just exposes his well documented weakness…which is accuracy. His strength is throwing the ball hard! To play to his strength he needs receivers who can hang on to his fast ball.