Would the Chiefs had ended up with Worthy without the trade with the Bills?

[Einstein]

38 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Greeny is a Jets fan and has never been able to look at anything NFL related with an objective eye.

Greeny has been backing the Bills for  years now. If you have been living under a rock, I can understand not knowing of Greenys defense of the Bills but here they are:

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

The point is that there is no consensus that he is tyreek hill "2.0" until he proves it. You guys are drawing parallels simply bc the guy is fast and was drafted by the chiefs. If he went to any other team, no one would be calling him tyreek hill "2.0". No one.

I'm not drawing any parallels. I didnt want him. I simply posted that the media is destroying the Bills for making the trade and rightfully so.

You don't trade with the team you're trying to catch. Klingons don't trade with Romuluns.

Edited April 28 by Einstein

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

Greeny has been backing the Bills for  years now. If you have been living under a rock, just say so.

 

 

 

I've heard all of these takes on Josh Allen and the Bills.  In fact, he's been jealous of the Bills because he is a Jets fan and they can't seem to do anything right.  But...he's an emotional Jets fan.  So he's not looking at the trade with any deal of objectivity.  I heard his take right after the trade was made and KC picked Worthy.  It was as emotional as when Mina Kimes went on about the Bills picking Josh Allen...and in truth it gave him something to add to the broadcast since he had nothing to offer with any pick analysis etc.  Outside of getting ESPN to their commercial breaks he just took up a chair.  

 

Good GMs don't worry about optics.  They don't make decisions based on emotion.   Media people are all about the optics.  And football fans are all about emotion.

 

And btw, just because someone disagrees with you, you don't need to resort to insults.

[Einstein]

42 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I've heard all of these takes on Josh Allen and the Bills.  In fact, he's been jealous of the Bills because he is a Jets fan and they can't seem to do anything right.  But...he's an emotional Jets fan.  So he's not looking at the trade with any deal of objectivity.  I heard his take right after the trade was made and KC picked Worthy.  It was as emotional as when Mina Kimes went on about the Bills picking Josh Allen...and in truth it gave him something to add to the broadcast since he had nothing to offer with any pick analysis etc.  Outside of getting ESPN to their commercial breaks he just took up a chair.  

 

Good GMs don't worry about optics.  They don't make decisions based on emotion.   Media people are all about the optics.  And football fans are all about emotion.

 

And btw, just because someone disagrees with you, you don't need to resort to insults.

 

There was no insult intended. Apologizies if anything I said was taken that way. I was simply stating that you must not have seen Greeny defend the Bills nearly non-stop for 3 straight years now if you're going to say that he can't be objective about the Bills.

Greeny, Simms and Brandt have been the most outwardly spoken Bills defenders of the past half decade. That's just a fact.

What he said about the trade is spot on in my opinion.

Beane has some question marks right now about whether he actually IS a good GM. I used to think he was. But he has made many many many blunders that have set this time back. From signing a 33 year old Von Miller to a massive deal, to letting KC jump us and take McDuffie (leaving us with Elam), to trading one of hte leagues best Guards to Cleveland for a bag of peanuts, to swinging and missing on Basham and Doyle and Fromm and Joseph. 

 

Edited April 28 by Einstein

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

There was no insult. I do not insult. Apologizes if anything I said was taken that way. I was simply stating that you must not have seen Greeny defend the Bills nearly non-stop for 3 straight years now if you're going to say that he can't be objective about the Bills.

Greeny, Simms and Brandt have been the most outwardly spoken Bills defenders of the past half decade. That's just a fact.

What he said about the trade is spot on. Emotional or not, It was a stupid move. 

I have seen Greeny defend the Bills and in particular Josh Allen a lot on Get Up.  

 

And we are just going to have to disagree about the trade.  I think Beane made a good move for the Bills irrespective of who the trade was made with.

[JohnNord]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

This maybe a reach, but I think they would have.

 

We know that the Bills had Coleman higher than McConkey, Mitchell, Legette, Worthy, and Pearsall.  If they didn't they would have taken one of Worthy, McConkey, Legette or Pearsall at 28 (or 32) instead of trading down (twice).  So let's say for arguments sake that the Bills don't make the trade and draft Coleman at 28. 

 

Dallas and Baltimore don't take a WR.  Dallas didn't grab a WR until the 6th round and Baltimore stole Tez Walker in the 4th.  We know SF didn't want Legette, McConkey and Coleman. That leaves one question, would they have taken Worthy over Pearsall?  That's the real question.  Given how the 49ers went somewhat off the board by drafting Pearsall with Legette, McConkey, Coleman, & Mitchell available, I believe they had Pearsall ranked ahead of Worthy as well.

 

By way the NFL had a draft grade of 6.4 on McConkey, 6.35 on Mitchell, 6.32 on Pearsall, 6.29 on Worthy, 6.26 on Legette, and 6.25 on Coleman

 

Given this back drop, it seems to me that KC would ended up with Worthy anyway.  I'm therefore glad Beane stuck to his guns, traded down and added the 3rd rd pick.

Jerry Jones loves Texas players and the rumor was that Dallas was looking into Worthy.  I’m guessing that KC called Buffalo because they felt there was a chance Dallas (or one of the other remaining teams) were drafting Worthy.  
 

We’ll never know who the other 3 teams would have picked.  But I can’t see it going either way

[stevestojan]

17 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

You can’t put a player like Worthy on the field every down, making him a luxury pick. There is only one team in position to make a luxury pick. That said, the Chiefs handed the Bills draft capital for free. 

Unfortunately, that won’t be the narrative. Every time we play them, and after every catch he makes, collinsworth will remind everyone that we “gave” him to the chiefs. 
 

maybe they still would have ended up with him - who knows? But the fact that the Bills had any part in him landing on the chiefs is not ok in my opinion. 

[CodeMonkey]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

This maybe a reach, but I think they would have.

 

We know that the Bills had Coleman higher than McConkey, Mitchell, Legette, Worthy, and Pearsall.  If they didn't they would have taken one of Worthy, McConkey, Legette or Pearsall at 28 (or 32) instead of trading down (twice).  So let's say for arguments sake that the Bills don't make the trade and draft Coleman at 28. 

 

Dallas and Baltimore don't take a WR.  Dallas didn't grab a WR until the 6th round and Baltimore stole Tez Walker in the 4th.  We know SF didn't want Legette, McConkey and Coleman. That leaves one question, would they have taken Worthy over Pearsall?  That's the real question.  Given how the 49ers went somewhat off the board by drafting Pearsall with Legette, McConkey, Coleman, & Mitchell available, I believe they had Pearsall ranked ahead of Worthy as well.

 

By way the NFL had a draft grade of 6.4 on McConkey, 6.35 on Mitchell, 6.32 on Pearsall, 6.29 on Worthy, 6.26 on Legette, and 6.25 on Coleman

 

Given this back drop, it seems to me that KC would ended up with Worthy anyway.  I'm therefore glad Beane stuck to his guns, traded down and added the 3rd rd pick.

Maybe, who knows.  But KC liked him enough to not take that chance.  For whatever reason the Bills didn't grade him out as high as KC did or he would be a Bill now. 

Edited April 28 by CodeMonkey

[MrEpsYtown]

It’s a fun dramatic media story. 
 

Just to add, the Chiefs did not have a great draft. I love Jaden Hicks and I think that he was their best pick. The linemen they added are meh and they gave up a third to move up a few spots. The TE is interesting. If Worthy is good, it’s fine. I would not trade our draft for theirs. 

[Meatloaf63]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I mean KC could've selected Coleman, right?

Then we probably go Legette or the next big bodied receiver. It’s very apparent the Bills valued size and hands over speed. The little twitchy guys have not done exceptionally well here with Allen.

[jkeerie]

28 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Then we probably go Legette or the next big bodied receiver. It’s very apparent the Bills valued size and hands over speed. The little twitchy guys have not done exceptionally well here with Allen.

I agree since they get manhandled by DBs.

[Nephilim17]

I think the Chiefs still get Worthy without the Bills. They could have traded with someone else. 

 

and none of the the teams between us picked a speed receiver with Legette and Mitchell still available.

It's a long-shot to think those teams really wanted Worthy too and did not trade up for him with the Bills picking and did not pick up another speed WR.

[gjv]

From my perspective, Worthy, who most had rated a second-round pick, would have been drafted by the Chiefs at 32. Beane's trade didn't impact the Chief's selection of Worthy but did prevent KC from drafting at 95 and did allow us to select Dwayne Carter at 95. I'd say Beane's move to trade with KC was a draft-day no-brainer.

[K-9]

Absofrickenoutely! There is the remotest possibility that the 49ers may have, but Worthy is NOT the type of receiver Shanahan likes. KC was getting him, regardless, and it was good to extract their 3rd rounder in the process. 

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

Because they didn’t want Worthy at 28 doesn’t mean they wouldn’t take him at 33.

 

Because they clearly didn’t want Coleman at 28. And they did take him at 33. 
 

This is obvious logic.

 

I don't think that Beane had any interest in Worthy because however fast he is, he's slightly built --  at 6'1" and 172 lbs he's a smurf who's unlikely to have a long NFL career -- and I think Beane always wanted a big outside WR. 

 

7 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Bills coveted Pearsall? I don’t think that’s true. Beane probably thought it was a great opportunity to gain draft capital (or move up in later rounds in this case) by sliding down and still get a receiver they liked. It’s a good trade for both sides in that regard. The optics is bad because it’s KC and we’ll be reminded every time they play each other. 

 

The optics are "bad" only because people don't look at the whole picture rationally.   The Bills traded with KC because they didn't have a particular player they really wanted at #28 plus Chiefs gave them their third round pick in order to swap #28 for #32.   Not only did the Bills gain a top 100 pick, but the Chiefs lost that pick.   That's a win any way you look at it. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't think that Beane had any interest in Worthy because however fast he is, he's slightly built --  at 6'1" and 172 lbs he's a smurf who's unlikely to have a long NFL career -- and I think Beane always wanted a big outside WR. 

 

 

The optics are "bad" only because people don't look at the whole picture rationally.   The Bills traded with KC because they didn't have a particular player they really wanted at #28 plus Chiefs gave them their third round pick in order to swap #28 for #32.   Not only did the Bills gain a top 100 pick, but the Chiefs lost that pick.   That's a win any way you look at it. 

It’s certainly possible. We’ll never know. 
 

The only part I don’t agree with is that we “know” that he had Coleman ranked ahead of Worthy.

[90sBills]

30 minutes ago, SoTier said:

The optics are "bad" only because people don't look at the whole picture rationally.   The Bills traded with KC because they didn't have a particular player they really wanted at #28 plus Chiefs gave them their third round pick in order to swap #28 for #32.   Not only did the Bills gain a top 100 pick, but the Chiefs lost that pick.   That's a win any way you look at it. 

But they gave KC their 4th round pick at #133 so really swapping picks not gaining an extra pick. KC used that #133 pick on Jaden Hicks. If he turns out to be a better db than Cole Bishop, whom the Bills took with pick #60, then we’ll never hear the end of this trade from the media. 

[K-9]

5 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Jerry Jones loves Texas players and the rumor was that Dallas was looking into Worthy.  I’m guessing that KC called Buffalo because they felt there was a chance Dallas (or one of the other remaining teams) were drafting Worthy.  
 

We’ll never know who the other 3 teams would have picked.  But I can’t see it going either way

I don’t put any stock in that rumor. Jerry Jones loved Worthy from Texas so much, he passed on him at 24 and traded down to 29, where once again, he loved him so much he didn’t want to move up one lousy spot in the draft to get him. 
 

KC was getting Worthy at 32, regardless, and if the Bills had traded down with anyone else at 28 nobody would give a crap and this absurd narrative never would have taken hold. 

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

But they gave KC their 4th round pick at #133 so really swapping picks not gaining an extra pick. KC used that #133 pick on Jaden Hicks. If he turns out to be a better db than Cole Bishop, whom the Bills took with pick #60, then we’ll never hear the end of this trade from the media. 

And if DeWayne Carter, drafted with the 3rd round pick obtained from KC, turns out to be a better player than Jaden Hicks, will the media shut up then? 

[90sBills]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

And if DeWayne Carter, drafted with the 3rd round pick obtained from KC, turns out to be a better player than Jaden Hicks, will the media shut up then? 

Well we all know DeWayne Carter is going to be a hof DT but they play different positions. Jaden Hicks and Cole Bishop are both safeties so they’re more relevant comparison. So imagine giving KC the opportunity to pick Worthy and he turns out great. Then with the next pick they got from Buffalo select a better player than Buffalo did while picking 73 spots later for the same position. You know that’s something the media would definitely lean into. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I mean, the actual Tyreek Hill was passed over 32 times in 4 different rounds. So the fact that 27 teams passed over him doesn’t mean much to me.

 

That being said, I really didn’t want Worthy either. I just don’t want us to hand KC who they want. 

 

Sounds like a real: Cut off my nose to spite my face mentality!

 

In the first ten minutes, many in the media were shocked, but also many articles stated once you actually think about it, it was very good move by the Bills,  They got who they wanted and got extra picks.