Beane on WR "We worked out a guy today we are going to end up signing"

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Obviously we differ on Coleman. For me, it’s bigger than just him. They needed more speed. They needed another guy that can run routes and eat targets. They didn’t invest enough resources into WR (regardless of the Coleman pick). My philosophy is that if you have Josh Allen, your biggest responsibility is loading up around Josh Allen. You do that at the expense of other parts of the roster. The Bills differ philosophically. They have neglected the 2nd (or 3rd) most important position. They need Josh to cover up and elevate those around him. 
 

I so desperately want you to be right. Josh Allen had similar odds coming out and he overcame it. 🍻

First and foremost, Josh needs a reliable WR to catch his passes. We all know that Coleman can, at least, do that. There were MANY WRs that were labeled as a "can't separate" type that has made nice careers in the NFL. They've been mentioned in this post. All I know is that he makes plays.

[davefan66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

On the field there is no such thing as addition by subtraction. As someone that was happy to trade Diggs and let Davis walk, the team on the field unquestionably became WORSE the moment that they were off the roster. Just because moving on from a player is the right decision, doesn't mean you can leave a blank space next to their position on the roster and expect to improve. That doesn't make any sense at all. As of right now we have a blank space next to outside WR #2. That is undeniable.

 

 

Why?? He was a UDFA prospect that we took after trading down in the 5th round because our draftable player board was completely wiped out. I will absolutely forget him. He isn't somebody that enters into the conversation at all. He's somebody that if he makes any kind of real impact on the team it will be a huge shock and a wonderful bit of fortune. You might as well mention Bryan Thompson, Tyrell Shavers, etc. What are we doing here?

 

Force feeding two guys the ball, one being a major diva, did not help this team.  Them being gone helps the guys here get better. Shakir should only get better.  Kincaid will only get better.  Cook will see more balls.  Coleman is better than people are giving him credit for.  Would adding another guy have helped?  Who knows.  Should we have tried?  Ultimately, Beane liked his own guys versus who was available.
 

Shorter was projected 5th round by many.  He was having a decent camp and preseason before being injured.  Big guy/fast. Expect him to get a chance to be productive this year.

[transient]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes! Just ask Chiefs fans. Their WR corps was in fact really bad last year and it directly led to them having the worst passing metrics of Mahomes' career, and having to play on the road in the playoffs for the first time in Mahomes' career. Do you think their bad WR corps was not a problem for the team? Because that defies the entire national conversation around them right up until they won the Super Bowl.

 

The Chiefs were shut out in the 2nd half of the AFCCG and the 1st half of the Super Bowl. Is that what you want us to aspire to? Do you think our McDermott-led defense with Ed Oliver where they have Chris Jones would carry us to a Super Bowl win under those circumstances?

 

By the way the Chiefs had the GOAT pass catching TE in that offense and possibly the GOAT offensive coach calling that offense, and it still was just barely enough to overcome a bad WR room. Do you think we have anything close to that caliber of favorable conditions?

 

This is a lazy talking point and I see it repeated over and over and over again. Our organization is nothing like the Chiefs from top to bottom. The only similarity between us is that we both have freaky QBs that can do things the league's never seen before. We can't build the kind of offense that they have and expect to win, or even participate in, a Super Bowl.

 

It's not a lazy talking point, it's a similar situation. And asking fans anything with the expectation of a rational answer is an exercise in futility.

 

Do you think the Chiefs organization went into the season last season expecting that it was their best chance to win the Super Bowl since Mahomes arrived? Are you expecting the Bills to compete for the SB this year? My point is, regardless of what fans want to believe, this Bills season is a retooling season. It's not going to look like a finished product. We're not going to compete for the SB unless this team unexpectedly catches fire late in the year.

 

My point is, asking Allen to work with a less than ideal WR corp for a season is not "inexcusable". Drafting a few rookie WRs without filling out the depth on a team that just went through a cap bloodbath under the guise of competing this year at the cost of future seasons would have been inexcusable. If the value was there in the picks they made over whatever WR was left at the time I'm glad they did it their way.

 

For comparison's sake, in 2019 the Bills WR corp was essentially John Brown, Cole Beasely and a bunch of scrubs at the rest of the skill positions, with Singletary as the feature RB. That's all Allen had to work with and they went 10-6. This season, they're likely expecting Shakir to fill the role of Beasely and Samuel to fill the role of Brown, except in addtion they have Kincaid and Cook to lean on as well, and whatever you can get from Knox. Those are the known quantities. Add to that the fact that Allen has much more experience than he did in 2019. Now add to that a big rookie in Coleman who should provide some assistance even if he's not the WR everyone wanted the Bills to draft, and a back in Davis that may also take some targets. If you get anything from the remaining bodies in Hamler, Shorter, Bocephus, whatever WR they bring in between now and the start of the season, etc it's a bonus. Yes, the offense will regress. It's inevitable. But they should still be competitive as a team.

 

Now look ahead to 2025, which will hopefully be the equivalent of the 2020 season when they added Diggs. They have draft picks and cap space. Any one of moving up for the best WR on the board, signing a big-ticket FA WR, or trading for a WR1 would upgrade this to a pretty formidable WR corp assuming Samuel and Coleman pan out and Shakir continues to ascend.

 

Now, if they suck this season and fail to do something along those line next season, then I couldn't agree more, they're clueless and they should all be fired. I think we need to temper our expectations for this season, though, look at the reality of the situation, and give them the benefit of the doubt. We've enjoyed some pretty good football since they've gotten here. So much so that we feel like every year should be our year and anything less is a fireable offense.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, transient said:

It's not a lazy talking point, it's a similar situation.

 

You didn't answer my questions. Do you believe the Bills can win a Super Bowl while getting shut out in consecutive halfs in their final 2 games? Do you believe we have the caliber of Travis Kelce or Andy Reid in our organization?

[transient]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You didn't answer my questions. Do you believe the Bills can win a Super Bowl while getting shut out in consecutive halfs in their final 2 games? Do you believe we have the caliber of Travis Kelce or Andy Reid in our organization?

Indirectly, I did answer your question regarding winning the SB. I clearly stated "regardless of what fans want to believe, this Bills season is a retooling season. It's not going to look like a finished product. We're not going to compete for the SB unless this team unexpectedly catches fire late in the year."  That would seem to suggest, regardless of circumstances, that no, I don't expect them to win a SB in 2024.

 

If you're specifically asking if I think they're able to win with defense to get them there, not with the defense they've brought to the playoffs the last few years, both from a philosophical and from a personnel perspective.

 

Re Kelce, I think Kincaid has the potential to be a similar player with time, but he's not there yet. Regarding Reid, no, I don't think Joe Brady will be on the same level as Reid, but you could make that argument about the majority of the teams in the league.

 

Regardless of the points you think you're making about Kelce and Reid, I don't expect the Bills to compete for a SB in 2024 and while they would never point blank admit it, I don't think the organization does either. If there is a year to ask Allen to make do with an inferior WR corp, 2024 would be it. They're going to have rookies and new faces all over the starting lineup on both sides of the ball, and they're carrying 55M of dead cap space. 

 

If your point is to soley focus on my assertion that "it's a similar situation" and hammer at that because the organizations are not identical with respect to coaching staff and personnel, then you're being very concrete about this. KC gave Mahomes crap WRs last season and, gun to their heads, I would imagine they would have told you at the start of the season that they expected to be competitive but didn't expect it was their strongest team or their best shot at a SB victory. Thus, I consider it a very similar situation.

 

Where it's not likely to be similar, KC has let most of their WRs from last season go because they truly were scrubs outside of Rice. With what the Bills have currently on the roster, I think they're asking a group of WRs to play a step above their natural slotting. If Samuel, Coleman, and Shakir can hold their own despite that, they may be a true WR1 from a pretty good WR corp and offense in 2025, when I do expect them to be in contention for a SB again.

[NewEra]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes! Just ask Chiefs fans. Their WR corps was in fact really bad last year and it directly led to them having the worst passing metrics of Mahomes' career, and having to play on the road in the playoffs for the first time in Mahomes' career. Do you think their bad WR corps was not a problem for the team? Because that defies the entire national conversation around them right up until they won the Super Bowl.

 

The Chiefs were shut out in the 2nd half of the AFCCG and the 1st half of the Super Bowl. Is that what you want us to aspire to? Do you think our McDermott-led defense with Ed Oliver where they have Chris Jones would carry us to a Super Bowl win under those circumstances?

 

By the way the Chiefs had the GOAT pass catching TE in that offense and possibly the GOAT offensive coach calling that offense, and it still was just barely enough to overcome a bad WR room. Do you think we have anything close to that caliber of favorable conditions?

 

This is a lazy talking point and I see it repeated over and over and over again. Our organization is nothing like the Chiefs from top to bottom. The only similarity between us is that we both have freaky QBs that can do things the league's never seen before. We can't build the kind of offense that they have and expect to win, or even participate in, a Super Bowl.

 

We were a couple plays away from beating KC last 2 playoff games.  We beat them in our last three regular season games.  We took our shot on Von Miller and it backfired due to injury. Extending Diggs was needed in order to make that happen.  Diggs fell off a cliff and turned out too much to deal with.  Now we have to deal with the consequences for a season.  
 

You do realize that we have to stop the KC offense as well as score?  Adding 10 all pro WRs won’t help us beat them if our defense can’t stop them.  We need balance.  We lost our 2 pro bowl safeties, floyd, 3 DTs and Tre.  They have to be replaced with good/solid players making very little money due to our cap sitch.  It looks like we’ve accomplished some of that, if not all of that this offseason (minus the elite pass rushers that don’t grow on trees and cost a billion)
 

Sorry to see you like this.  Looks like you’ve gone off the deep end.  This is part of the salary cap nfl and scoring endless amounts of points is rarely the answer.  Balance is usually the answer.  We can still have a top 5 offense this season.  I’d go so far as to say that our offense will be fair share better than our D….even with our so

called terrible WR unit.

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, transient said:

Regardless of the points you think you're making about Kelce and Reid, I don't expect the Bills to compete for a SB in 2024 and while they would never point blank admit it, I don't think the organization does either. If there is a year to ask Allen to make do with an inferior WR corp, 2024 would be it. They're going to have rookies and new faces all over the starting lineup on both sides of the ball, and they're carrying 55M of dead cap space. 

 

Sure, I too don't expect to seriously contend for a Super Bowl this year. I guess I just don't have a lot of optimism that they're going to go all in on pass catching weapons next offseason. Seems like every year except for 2020 we get to November and we realize that we don't have enough weapons, and every offseason they punt on seriously investing in the position until the following year. Then the following year comes and it's rinse and repeat. What makes you optimistic this regime will suddenly make it a priority next year? And why not add those weapons now so they're developed and ready to contribute in 2025 when our second Super Bowl window should be opening?

[boyst]

He is on serious NFL network right now

[Warriorspikes51]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:15 AM, LabattBlue said:

I am convinced that the Bills FO looks at KC’s crap at WR, and think they can get by with the same.  

would be UTTER FOLLY.   

Reid. Mahomes. Kelce. Chris Jones. Spag 

That is enough combined Elite to overcome deficiencies.

We have Allen.  

 

[boyst]

Beanie said he had 5 good deals he turned down for 33

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, boyst said:

Beanie said he had 5 good deals he turned down for 33

 

That is a bit disappointing. 

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sorry to see you like this.  Looks like you’ve gone off the deep end.  This is part of the salary cap nfl and scoring endless amounts of points is rarely the answer.  Balance is usually the answer.  We can still have a top 5 offense this season.

 

Sorry, I'm just sick of watching the organization fail to seriously invest in their franchise QB. The last time Allen took the field he had to run around with his air on fire and do backflips just to keep us in the game while our defense got stomped on. His outside pass catchers let him down big time. And I'm shocked the organization hasn't made that the singular priority of this offseason. What happened to Beane's mantra that your last game tells you who you are? Did you come away from our last game thinking that safety, backup DT, and RB2 were our biggest weaknesses? They added one outside WR to replace the two that they lost. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I don't think the 5th ranked offense is enough to win a Super Bowl under current leadership. It will have to be the very best or close to it to overcome our defense in the playoffs. I agree defense matters to winning championships, I'm just not expecting our defense to suddenly play at that level no matter how much we invest in it. So I'm done with balance. I would rather our resources be entirely lopsided in favor of betting on Allen and his weapons to steamroll their way to a championship.

 

And instead of dancing around it I'll just say it - I don't believe McDermott as a defensive coach is good enough to ever have an elite defense capable of winning a championship with just a top 5 offense. I think he needs an uber talented offense that can put up close to 30 points a game and let his defense play with a lead. Even then it might not be enough as we learned in the 2021 divisional round, but it's our best shot.

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure, I too don't expect to seriously contend for a Super Bowl this year. I guess I just don't have a lot of optimism that they're going to go all in on pass catching weapons next offseason. Seems like every year except for 2020 we get to November and we realize that we don't have enough weapons, and every offseason they punt on seriously investing in the position until the following year. Then the following year comes and it's rinse and repeat. What makes you optimistic this regime will suddenly make it a priority next year? And why not add those weapons now so they're developed and ready to contribute in 2025 when our second Super Bowl window should be opening?

Amen.

Even if the Bills do FINALLY decide that 2025 is the year they're going to seriously invest in some offensive weaponry in the draft, then we'll hear "well, rookie WRs are slow to adapt to the NFL. 2026 is the year we should really be ready to dominate!".

The can keeps getting kicked. It's always "next year" that we'll address these deficiencies once and for all.

There will never stop being defensive depth needs and special teams needs. Until this team decides that they're going to prioritize using premium capital on offense ANYWAY, I fear we'll keep getting to January and having to count on guys like Trent Sherfield, Mack Hollins, and the ghosts of John Brown or Cole Beasley.

[buffaloboyinATL]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

That is a bit disappointing. 

not to me. I think Coleman is the real deal, and if we had traded down again, and missed out on him, I would not be as happy with the draft. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sorry, I'm just sick of watching the organization fail to seriously invest in their franchise QB. The last time Allen took the field he had to run around with his air on fire and do backflips just to keep us in the game while our defense got stomped on. His outside pass catchers let him down big time. And I'm shocked the organization hasn't made that the singular priority of this offseason. What happened to Beane's mantra that your last game tells you who you are? Did you come away from our last game thinking that safety, backup DT, and RB2 were our biggest weaknesses? They added one outside WR to replace the two that they lost. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I don't think the 5th ranked offense is enough to win a Super Bowl under current leadership. It will have to be the very best or close to it to overcome our defense in the playoffs. I agree defense matters to winning championships, I'm just not expecting our defense to suddenly play at that level no matter how much we invest in it. So I'm done with balance. I would rather our resources be entirely lopsided in favor of betting on Allen and his weapons to steamroll their way to a championship.

 

And instead of dancing around it I'll just say it - I don't believe McDermott as a defensive coach is good enough to ever have an elite defense capable of winning a championship with just a top 5 offense. I think he needs an uber talented offense that can put up close to 30 points a game and let his defense play with a lead. Even then it might not be enough as we learned in the 2021 divisional round, but it's our best shot.

“Never invest in their franchise QB”.  Never.  
 

I feel bad for ya.  I get the frustrations.  I really do.  I was hoping to draft 2-3 WRs.  We didn’t and I’m not happy about it.  That said- we did invest in Josh allen.  This offseason.  Last offseason.  Every offseason. And every year we have a top 5 offense at the end of the year, while playing in Buffalo.  
 

They didn’t invest as much as you or I wanted them to invest but I look at our OL and our playmakers, I don’t think we’re lacking as much as many others.  Our run last season was done with our WR1 accomplishing next to nothing  

 

I think we’ve provided Josh with a good running game and a boatload of capable playmakers.  Missing the elite talent so far, but that could come in the form of Kincaid.  Cook is emerging as a top back. Shakir was one of the most efficient WRs in the league.  Samuel has been good without a good NFL QB ever throwing him the ball.  Keon now has Josh Allen.  
 

All the  talking heads talked about in 2020-2022 was “they need to get Josh allen help in form of a running game”.  “They are asking him to do too much”.  “He can’t do it all”.   They invested in the run game to do so, neglected WR more than we had hoped.   What they did last season showed they don’t need an elite WR (of course having one would be better than not having one).  They can execute a great offense while spreading the ball around and running the ball.  Just like KC has done the last two seasons. 

[transient]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think we’ve provided Josh with a good running game and a boatload of capable playmakers.  Missing the elite talent so far, but that could come in the form of Kincaid.  Cook is emerging as a top back. Shakir was one of the most efficient WRs in the league.  Samuel has been good without a good NFL QB ever throwing him the ball.  Keon now has Josh Allen.  

And if all of this meshes in 2024 and the talent is there, they're a true WR1 away from replicating the formula they used in 2020 and 2021. One player, whether by trade, FA signing, or going up and getting the best one in the draft. And they should have the cap space and/or draft capital in 2025 to do it. Better yet, aside from Samuel, who's 27, and possibly Cook, who may not be offered a 2nd contract, they'll still have most of their careers ahead of them unlike Beasely, Brown, Sanders, and in the end, Diggs.

[Mister Defense]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:38 AM, H2o said:

At first I "liked" your post. Then I thought about it and removed my reaction. I thought to myself, "Nah, the Bills can't have the worst WR group in the NFL." So I went on ESPN.com and looked at EVERY roster, the ones I thought could be in a worse place. There are many you know off top that are absolutely better than us. There are only a couple that I even thought, "Maybe we're better than them? Could be a tie?" You're right. 

 

The blind homerism around here is hilarious. People trying to reason and plead their case as to why we're fine, or better off, and we don't have a need in our WR group. That we had a "great" draft. It's like a lawyer who knows his client is guilty as sin, and has a snowball's chance in hell to get off, but still puts a case together for him anyway. The only difference is the lawyer is getting paid. You guys are not. 

 

Kirby is absolutely right. In a draft like this one, the best WR draft in at least 10 years, to come away with only one guy in the 2nd and some UDFA's is an epic failure. Then watching you all plead your cases as to why we're fine, or better , is like watching people talk up guys during the drought years. Guys like CJ Ah You, Marcus Easley, Kelvin Sheppard, and Robert Foster. Like we don't have a generational talent at QB right now. Like this brass is not continually 💩'ing on him by making a single move here or there instead of going all in to give him EVERYTHING he needs. It's mind boggling to me. 

 

 

Love this line:  "In a draft like this one, the best WR draft in at least 10 years, to come away with only one guy in the 2nd and some UDFA's is an epic failure."

 

An  "epic failure"?  Without ever having seen the new Bills receivers play a down on the Bills--ever.

 

"Blind homerism" is better than irrational, over the top hatred.  Clearly, from reading your posts on this draft, you were armed and loaded, ready to attack like a mad dog foaming at the mouth--before any picks were even made. 

 

Some of the most negative,hate filled, subjective and  irrational posts I have ever seen on this board...

 

At least the 'blind' homers, which I think are as  rare as the irrational haters, don't hate their team and hope beyond hope it all falls apart.

 

It will not--and all of your predictions will be even more  laughable at the end of this season.

 

 

 

Edited May 1 by Mister Defense

[Aurelius]

We are down our #1 and #2 receivers, one of whom was Stefon Diggs, a real matchup problem for defenses.  Right now we have replaced them with a second round rookie draft pick and Curtis Samuel.  
 

As of now, our #1 and #2 WR’s have a grand total of 4 NFL receiving TD’s last season.  I think everybody has a right to be concerned as we don’t have any proven downfield scoring threats on the corners to open the field up.  
 

I’m not saying Coleman won’t be good in time, or even as a rookie but we have one of the best QB’s in the nfl and without many threats at the wr position; teams are gonna give us a much shorter field for our RB’s TE and slot to work in.  
 

I’m still hoping we make a big free agent Hail Mary somewhere along the way but not sure if that’s in the cards.  

[H2o]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

 

Love this line:  "In a draft like this one, the best WR draft in at least 10 years, to come away with only one guy in the 2nd and some UDFA's is an epic failure."

 

An  "epic failure"?  Without ever having seen the new Bills receivers play a down on the Bills--ever.

 

"Blind homerism" is better than irrational, over the top hatred.  Clearly, from reading your posts on this draft, you were armed and loaded, ready to attack like a mad dog foaming at the mouth--before any picks were even made. 

 

Some of the most negative,hate filled, subjective and  irrational posts I have ever seen on this board...

 

At least the 'blind' homers, which I think are as  rare as the irrational haters, don't hate their team and hope beyond hope it all falls apart.

 

It will not--and all of your predictions will be even more  laughable at the end of this season.

 

 

 

Another 🤡 response. Here, go find some more to add to my amusement for the day.  

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/profile/7133-h2o/content/

[jkeerie]

23 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

We are down our #1 and #2 receivers, one of whom was Stefon Diggs, a real matchup problem for defenses.  Right now we have replaced them with a second round rookie draft pick and Curtis Samuel.  
 

As of now, our #1 and #2 WR’s have a grand total of 4 NFL receiving TD’s last season.  I think everybody has a right to be concerned as we don’t have any proven downfield scoring threats on the corners to open the field up.  
 

I’m not saying Coleman won’t be good in time, or even as a rookie but we have one of the best QB’s in the nfl and without many threats at the wr position; teams are gonna give us a much shorter field for our RB’s TE and slot to work in.  
 

I’m still hoping we make a big free agent Hail Mary somewhere along the way but not sure if that’s in the cards.  

Diggs became less and less of a match up problem as the season wore on.  So I don't agree with you on this point.  Diggs could be removed from games just by DBs being physical with him.  I think that is why the Bills decided to stress physicality over finesse in their drafting this year.  If you also consider the type of receivers Brady had at LSU, Coleman fit that bill.  I'm optimistic about this receiver group, although admittedly it is yet to be seen how well they perform.