Beane on WR "We worked out a guy today we are going to end up signing"

[BillsFooteball]

8 minutes ago, H2o said:

At first I "liked" your post. Then I thought about it and removed my reaction. I thought to myself, "Nah, the Bills can't have the worst WR group in the NFL." So I went on ESPN.com and looked at EVERY roster, the ones I thought could be in a worse place. There are many you know off top that are absolutely better than us. There are only a couple that I even thought, "Maybe we're better than them? Could be a tie?" You're right. 

 

The blind homerism around here is hilarious. People trying to reason and plead their case as to why we're fine, or better off, and we don't have a need in our WR group. That we had a "great" draft. It's like a lawyer who knows his client is guilty as sin, and has a snowball's chance in hell to get off, but still puts a case together for him anyway. The only difference is the lawyer is getting paid. You guys are not. 

 

Kirby is absolutely right. In a draft like this one, the best WR draft in at least 10 years, to come away with only one guy in the 2nd and some UDFA's is an epic failure. Then watching you all plead your cases as to why we're fine, or better , is like watching people talk up guys during the drought years. Guys like CJ Ah You, Marcus Easley, Kelvin Sheppard, and Robert Foster. Like we don't have a generational talent at QB right now. Like this brass is not continually 💩'ing on him by making a single move here or there instead of going all in to give him EVERYTHING he needs. It's mind boggling to me. 

Absolutely agree and made a post on it yesterday. Looking at every teams current WR group you can make a case they are a bottom 5 group, hard to argue they are not bottom 10. I do feel a large group are just always homers and overvalue own players. As much I love the bills I try to look at these things objectively. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

You think that the guy that founded reception perception, and charts every route run by WRs is “just a fantasy football guy?” That feels like you’re grasping at straws to fit the confirmation bias.

 

I’ve said that the Bills are I arguably a bottom 3 WR room and may be last. Feel free to list the ones that you think are worse but be prepared to defend it. 

You think making charts for fantasy football purposes of things that already happened equates to him breaking down film and analyzing prospects and the nuances of their positions to determine their actual strengths, weaknesses, and abilities to develop at the next level? 

Analyzing stuff for fantasy football has no automatic correlation to scouting and grading college prospects.  

[Mr Info]

Ok if the Bills pick up another vet or udfa. They got better when they dropped #14. Got tired of #17 forcing the ball to him. The SB Champs did not have a great receiving group last year but Mahomes made it work. Josh can do the same with the improving young guys & vets that were added. 

[LEBills]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Matt Harmon is THE guy when it comes to WR analysis. I posted his video on Coleman earlier. There were LOTS of people that thought he was polarizing. That’s not an opinion. People talking about his 40 time are not people that thought it was controversial. People talking about his lack of separation are the ones that had an issue. 
 

I don’t care if he’s a 4.5 guy or a 4.6 guy. I care that this is what his route tree looks like:

 

 

The good with Harmon’s analysis is that he does a pretty good job isolating the WR and their route. So if one WR has a good QB getting them the ball or a bad QB not getting them the ball, it can account for bad stats.

 

Where I think RP is a bit flawed is that he basically solely looks at how a player gets open. So for example he - and a lot of people - loved Ricky Pearsall because he does run good routes. But it doesn’t really take into account that the boy is light, struggles with physicality through the catch and as a runner. It also doesn’t weigh for age where Pearsall has had 3 extra years of life to develop his route running than say Keon Coleman

 

So it’s a good way to tell you how good of a route runner a player is right now. But not exactly what they will become and how they are in other aspects of being a WR. In general, Harmon’s RP is very good though.

Edited April 28 by LEBills

[davefan66]

46 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Our wide receiver room is very likely better with no more adds - and there will be at least one.  Gabe Davis and Diggs gave us virtually nothing for the second 2/3rds of last year.  If Samuel and Coleman don't give us more in games 1-8 than Davis and Diggs gave us in the final 8, I will be very surprised.  It seems very clear Shakir is just tapping into what he will be - he barely played the first few games last year as we tried to have Harty and Sherfield emerge.  They didn't.

 

Please don't sign any old guys.  We wanted to get younger and bigger at wideout.  We did.  I think in 2024, Shakir will be better than Diggs.  Folks remember Diggs from 2020 and 2021.  Whether due to attitude or age, the objective evidence from the recent past is that he is not that guy anymore.  And it is indisputable his arrow is down, not up.  Why do you think he is on a one year deal with the Texans?  Buy low, sell high, it is pretty basic.

It’s not a popular opinion to believe the Bills WR room is better than last year.  I think we are better this year for sure.
 

Davis cost us with his drops last year.  Love the guy, but was time to move on.

 

Diggs is addition by subtraction.  He was a locker room issue which was verified by a few people.  Either way, both Diggs and Davis disappeared late last year.

 

Harty and Sherfield were non contributors.  Their fault?  Maybe. first Offensive coordinator?  Maybe.

 

Shakir will have a breakout season. Coleman is going to be better than people think.  Kincaid will be counted on for catches. Cook with the addition of Ray Davis will be more of a receiving threat.  Samuel will be good. And don’t forget Justin Shorter.

 

We will sign a a FA WR (per Beane) to fill out the receivers.

 

Josh is our QB.  We will be fine.

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I was willing to be patient after the Diggs trade and gave these guys the benefit of the doubt. I expected us ti move way up and take one of the top guys. I also expected us to trade for Ayuk or Samuel….now we are through that and what we have is nowhere good enough. You can’t go into a season with Allen in his prime and these weapons at WR. It’s inexcusable. This list of WRs is nowhere near comforting but the only was this off-season isn’t a total failure is OBJ or Thomas. None of those other guys are even better than what we already have. I’d still like to explore that 49ers trade but I’m assuming that ship has sailed.

[K D]

1 minute ago, davefan66 said:

It’s not a popular opinion to believe the Bills WR room is better than last year.  I think we are better this year for sure.
 

Davis cost us with his drops last year.  Love the guy, but was time to move on.

 

Diggs is addition by subtraction.  He was a locker room issue which was verified by a few people.  Either way, both Diggs and Davis disappeared late last year.

 

Harty and Sherfield were non contributors.  Their fault?  Maybe. first Offensive coordinator?  Maybe.

 

Shakir will have a breakout season. Coleman is going to be better than people think.  Kincaid will be counted on for catches. Cook with the addition of Ray Davis will be more of a receiving threat.  Samuel will be good. And don’t forget Justin Shorter.

 

We will sign a a FA WR (per Beane) to fill out the receivers.

 

Josh is our QB.  We will be fine.

 

 

We found Brandon Beane's burner account

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

That’s not actually the issue.  We are the 2nd highest scoring team in the NFL the past 4 years.  
 

Our biggest issues on offense have been we are a soft offense outside of Allen…a finesse offense where we didn’t have that toughness to match our opponents in the playoffs.  We haven’t been able to match the more physical play that happens in the playoffs and it’s why we just can’t make that “one more play” than KC.  They have toughness that comes out in big moments, we haven’t.  
 

We aren’t trying to build back the same soft finesse team.  We are building a tougher team full of guys who make plays, make catches, and have the toughness and edge to step up when it matters.  

Your post makes me remember a certain sports movie.. ( when I point to you…, you speak, “he gets on base”…,) a similar rebuild conceptually being applied to the Bills?

[davefan66]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

We found Brandon Beane's burner account

😂😂  Ya got me!

 

Honestly, with the way Diggs and Davis disappeared late in the season it makes sense they are gone.  Davis dropping passes?  His contract was not in the best interest of this team.  And if Diggs wanted out, what kind of teammate is that?? 

 

Fans can be unhappy losing productive pieces.  It’s the NFL, this stuff happens.  We will move forward.

[LabattBlue]

I am convinced that the Bills FO looks at KC’s crap at WR, and think they can get by with the same.  

[Kirby Jackson]

18 minutes ago, LEBills said:

The good with Harmon’s analysis is that he does a pretty good job isolating the WR and their route. So if one WR has a good QB getting them the ball or a bad QB not getting them the ball, it can account for bad stats.

 

Where I think RP is a bit flawed is that he basically solely looks at how a player gets open. So for example he - and a lot of people - loved Ricky Pearsall because he does run good routes. But it doesn’t really take into account that the boy is light, struggles with physicality through the catch and as a runner. It also doesn’t weigh for age where Pearsall has had 3 extra years of life to develop his route running than say Keon Coleman

 

So it’s a good way to tell you how good of a route runner a player is right now. But not exactly what they will become and how they are in other aspects of being a WR. In general, Harmon’s RP is very good though.

Very fair and thoughtful analysis 🍻. Agree wholeheartedly 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Your post makes me remember a certain sports movie.. ( when I point to you…, you speak, “he gets on base”…,) a similar rebuild conceptually being applied to the Bills?

Haha good reference.  I think you can say a little bit of that for sure.  

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You think making charts for fantasy football purposes of things that already happened equates to him breaking down film and analyzing prospects and the nuances of their positions to determine their actual strengths, weaknesses, and abilities to develop at the next level? 

Analyzing stuff for fantasy football has no automatic correlation to scouting and grading college prospects.  

That’s not what happens. @LEBills explains it perfectly. He basically judges route running and ability to get space. Coleman was not successful at that. It doesn’t mean that he can’t be a good receiver. If you watch the video it names other guys with similar separation in college that succeeded as pros (Kupp, St. Brown, Boyd). They were all big slots though. Guys that got similar separation to Coleman in college have not translated to the boundary in the NFL. He lists the names. You can defend the WR room all that you want. If he succeeds on the outside, he will be an outlier. Josh was an outlier. It obviously can happen but it would be overcoming math and data. 

[transient]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again, I like the player but if you think that he is the number 1 WR that’s going to see the 160 targets that Diggs saw, we aren’t close to agreeing. 
 

Not fundamentally disagreeing, but even as a hybrid player, in that season in Carolina with Brady as his OC he saw ~100 targets (I don’t know the breakdown of targets lined up as WR vs out of the backfield). I don’t think he sees Diggs 160 targets, but I’m also anticipating they want to spread those targets around more. For better or worse, I think they’re taking the approach that KC has since trading Hill, rolling without a true WR1 and hoping to make up the production with a cast of WRs. 
 

There was a lot made of the depth of the WR class in the draft, but it seems to me a lot of teams passed over a number of “highly touted” players a number of times before they finally came off the board. Suggests to me it was a bit overhyped, and with all of the recent holes created on the roster Beane decided he could get more value selecting other positions and addressing the WR room this season with lower tier FAs. It’s hard to imagine a WR drafted in the 3th rd and beyond generating much production this season anyway. 

[boyst]

10 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

It was me, vet minimum.  But a nice pay upgrade to say the least

Oh great, spent more time in the fridge then the training room. You're the next kelvin Benjamin 

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

It’s not a popular opinion to believe the Bills WR room is better than last year.  I think we are better this year for sure.
 

Davis cost us with his drops last year.  Love the guy, but was time to move on.

 

Diggs is addition by subtraction.  He was a locker room issue which was verified by a few people.  Either way, both Diggs and Davis disappeared late last year.

 

Harty and Sherfield were non contributors.  Their fault?  Maybe. first Offensive coordinator?  Maybe.

 

Shakir will have a breakout season. Coleman is going to be better than people think.  Kincaid will be counted on for catches. Cook with the addition of Ray Davis will be more of a receiving threat.  Samuel will be good. And don’t forget Justin Shorter.

 

We will sign a a FA WR (per Beane) to fill out the receivers.

 

Josh is our QB.  We will be fine.

 

 

1-32 where to you rank the Bills WRs? I’m not talking about the TEs or RBs. Where do you think that they are in terms of WR rooms? Please list all of the teams that you think are worse than them. 

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 Ok

A UDFA wouldn’t have been in Buffalo working out on Day 3 of the NFL Draft. He would have been at home with his family hoping he was getting drafted. If he wasn’t drafted he would have fielded 32 opportunities from teams and weighed money and opportunity to make the team. 
 

He wouldn’t have said well let me travel listen to no one else and sign with the Bills. The WR that Beane is signing is someone who has already gone through the draft process or has been playing in another league . Satisfied with my answer now? 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, transient said:

Not fundamentally disagreeing, but even as a hybrid player, in that season in Carolina with Brady as his OC he saw ~100 targets (I don’t know the breakdown of targets lined up as WR vs out of the backfield). I don’t think he sees Diggs 160 targets, but I’m also anticipating they want to spread those targets around more. For better or worse, I think they’re taking the approach that KC has since trading Hill, rolling without a true WR1 and hoping to make up the production with a cast of WRs. 
 

There was a lot made of the depth of the WR class in the draft, but it seems to me a lot of teams passed over a number of “highly touted” players a number of times before they finally came off the board. Suggests to me it was a bit overhyped, and with all of the recent holes created on the roster Beane decided he could get more value selecting other positions and addressing the WR room this season with lower tier FAs. It’s hard to imagine a WR drafted in the 3th rd and beyond generating much production this season anyway. 

Even if he is at 100 as a “non traditional WR” there are still a whole bunch of targets unaccounted for. Do the math and find the 600 targets within this group. It is not an easy exercise.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know. I would guarantee 3+ years of Chark at this point in his career.

Chark would be a big upgrade over Sherfield. 

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Chark would be a big upgrade over Sherfield. 

yea Chark is the best guy left out there. Add him and one more vet that has actually produced in the league (OBJ, Boyd, Renfrow, etc) and I’ll feel better about WR for this year. I do not want Justin Shorter or Mack Hollins as next man up