Beane: "This team is in transition"

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's a bit of a reach Gunner.  While what you say may be true, even you have admitted that McD influences Beane's choices.  McD is pure D, zero O.  Even he's essentially admitted as much.  

 

The identity of this team is clearly D-First apart from Allen.  As you pointed out in a post after this, only 1 WR on days 1 & 2, and it's a guy that leans more like Davis than any other productive WR we've had.  

 

There is no strategy in building the O.  Consider, we threw Singletary and Moss overboard with the statements that we wanted to get faster on offense and highlighted Cook.  Then we turn around and draft all but a Moss clone in round 4 this season.  None of our offensive strategy makes much sense and there certainly is zero consistency from season to season, either in coaching or in methodology as to what our Offense is supposed to look like, ... other than for letting Allen be personally responsible for 75%+ of the production.  

 

That's at the heart of the pro/anti-McD debate.  On the anti side are those that think we should be focusing on offense like McBeane have focused on the defense.  That makes the most sense to anyone that knows football besides McD apologists.  It should be a no-brainer, when you have a generational talented QB like Allen, you do everything possible to build around that QB.  We've not done that.  In fact, we've done everything to build around McD's defense, often ignoring major needs on the Offense.  

 

I realize that you won't agree, that's because you're on the pro side, so that's understandable, just sayin' otherwise.  

 

We can argue and bicker, but not one of us has the ability to alter what happens.  LOL  

 

Go Bills!!  

 

 

 

I do agree thar we haven't prioritised offensive assets - wide receiver in particular even nearly enough. But I am 100% confident that would have been the case wherever Brandon Beane was the GM and whoever his Head Coach was. So long as Beane has personnel control he will prioritise defensive line, linebackers and running backs. It is Carolina 101.

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

My point being free agency affects how you draft. 

 

And drafting affects free agency, which it could be argued is more important.  

 

Free agency is the most expensive way to aquire talent.  Filling gaps with top-notch players is the least efficient method to assembling talent.  

 

Some positions you're fine at with a 6-7 caliber player (1-to-10 scale) on a bargain, others not so much.  When you have Allen, WR is not so much.  

 

Consider, Jefferson vs. Diggs as a mere example.  

 

 

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do agree thar we haven't prioritised offensive assets - wide receiver in particular even nearly enough. But I am 100% confident that would have been the case wherever Brandon Beane was the GM and whoever his Head Coach was. So long as Beane has personnel control he will prioritise defensive line, linebackers and running backs. It is Carolina 101.

 

Who knows.  None of us are privy to their personal discussions.  

 

Keep in mind, Beane is only here because of McD, you know that.  

 

I'll lean to the side that says if we had a Ben Johnson here, our drafts would look considerably different.  

 

 

Edited April 28 by PBF81

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Beane has shown he can execute a tear down. He's done it twice now. Can he execute a rebuild? That remains to be seen. The first attempt failed. Now we're giving him chance #2 and the same head coach is along for the ride. And the first draft of his second rebuild was filled with poor strategic picks IMO.

I usually agree with you, but I just don’t see spending the 60th pick on a player the team thinks will be an elite safety is bad value. The Bills D in this era, for all of its flaws, has been REALLY good at preventing points and limiting yards, and that’s because their secondary, which is built as much around safeties as it is around corners, has been fantastic at preventing big plays. The safety play has been a crucial element of this, and if they think Bishop is someone who can come in quickly become field director out there, then the pick becomes a lot more understandable from a value perspective. Just look at a team like Washington: so, so many high picks spent on the d-line - and for good players too! - but they can’t stop anyone because their secondary is so goddamn bad. In particular, their safeties are horrible: Cameron Kurl (7th rounder) and Percy Butler (4th rounder). Then look at the Patriots. Yeah, they were bad last season because of their offense, but their defense remained excellent despite an incredible rash of injuries. The reason? Well, a big one was that their second round safety (Kyle Dugger) was one of the most impactful secondary players in the league and because Julius Peppers was a well-above average player last season. Their safeties, along with Christian Barmore, are what made that defense such a challenge to face.

 

Anyway, I think you might want to rethink your valuation of safeties. They are not the defensive equivalent of RBs (LBs are); they’re more the equivalent, value-wise, of tight ends because like TEs, they have be effective in both the run and pass games. They also need to be smarter than the average defensive player, generally speaking (like TEs on the other side).

Edited April 28 by dave mcbride

[PBF81]

18 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm not gonna grade a draft until we see how all the players turn out, but the overall philosophy shown this weekend is deflating and uninspiring.

 

Entirely agree with you there.  

 

What we do know is that the approach and methodology employed via this draft is once again different than prior statements of intent from the people conducting the draft.  

 

We need a WR to separate.  Now we don't.  

 

On top of that, Allen's easily the biggest long-ball TD pitcher in football, easily.  Now we have a cadre of WRs that excel at the underneath and short-medium stuff.  That's not Allen's game.  Can he adjust to the extent that he excels in the high-percentage passing game?  He'll always be great, but will we have this Offense running at 100% is the question.  That's more the game of a Burrow, Purdy, or other QBs.  

 

We want to go speed on Offense which is why we jettisoned Sing & Moss.  Then we draft all but a Moss clone.  

 

No OL help.  Suppose, as in it's very likely, that we do not have the same injury fortunes that we had last season with zero injuries to our OL.  Day 3 OL-men going to cut it?  

 

As you say, we'll see how it turns out.  

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Not even close. Reloading is a factual difference in approach, meaning you can still be competitive this year and certainly next. 

 

Rebuilding means you have no chance the next two years, and an extremely slight chance in year 3, and you have a new GM. If you are a GM trying to sell your owner a rebuild you'd better have a couple of Super Bowl championships under your belt, because you're telling the owner that the roster you built has no realistic chance for a championship anytime soon and so you need to throw it all out and start over. Without championships you're telling the owner that you just weren't a good enough GM.

 

 

Many rebuilds are silent - maybe they are pitched as "retooling" but that's not what they really are. To me retooling is when a team loses or gains key players and completely shifts their philosophy and how they win. We saw this in Brady's NE, Peyton's Indy, Mahomes' KC - the silent rebuilds are what we saw in Rivers' SD, Rodgers, GB, Rothlisberger's Pit. There were absolutely seasons in Green Bay and Pittsburgh where they had no shot to win a super bowl but they were still gonna go on and win 10-11 meaningless regular season games and ditto for San Diego and Pittsburgh.

That's exactly where we are right now, imo. We can win 10, 11, 12 games, but we have as close to a 0% shot to win this Super Bowl as you can get. I know, I know - we have Josh Allen. I've seen enough great QBs on massively flawed teams to know that's not nearly enough to get it done. Watching the Bills try to win with their previous and current iterations of the team is a little reminiscent of watching Peyton Manning stack accolades and division championships until they had enough pieces come to together in their second iteration of the team to finally get past New England.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Many rebuilds are silent - maybe they are pitched as "retooling" but that's not what they really are. To me retooling is when a team loses or gains key players and completely shifts their philosophy and how they win. We saw this in Brady's NE, Peyton's Indy, Mahomes' KC - the silent rebuilds are what we saw in Rivers' SD, Rodgers, GB, Rothlisberger's Pit. There were absolutely seasons in Green Bay and Pittsburgh where they had no shot to win a super bowl but they were still gonna go on and win 10-11 meaningless regular season games and ditto for San Diego and Pittsburgh.

That's exactly where we are right now, imo. We can win 10, 11, 12 games, but we have as close to a 0% shot to win this Super Bowl as you can get. I know, I know - we have Josh Allen. I've seen enough great QBs on massively flawed teams to know that's not nearly enough to get it done. Watching the Bills try to win with their previous and current iterations of the team is a little reminiscent of watching Peyton Manning stack accolades and division championships until they had enough pieces come to together in their second iteration of the team to finally get past New England.

I am going to give you the green agree checkmark for this

 

Don't let it go to your head

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

Some fans believe that if we don’t win a sb yearly McD and BB need to go. 
 

need an nfl aptitude test to post here. 

He's had six years and four of them with Allen playing out of his mind. 

How many more years are you going to give him? If he wins the division next year and loses in division round again you are ok with that? 

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I usually agree with you, but I just don’t see spending the 60th pick on a player the team thinks will be an elite safety is bad value. The Bills D in this era, for all of its flaws, has been REALLY good at preventing points and limiting yards, and that’s because their secondary, which is built as much around safeties as it is around corners, has been fantastic at preventing big plays. The safety play has been a crucial element of this, and if they think Bishop is someone who can come in quickly become field director out there, then the pick becomes a lot more understandable from a value perspective. Just look at a team like Washington: so, so many high picks spent on the d-line - and for good players too! - but they can’t stop anyone because their secondary is so goddamn bad. In particular, their safeties are horrible: Cameron Kurl (7th rounder) and Percy Butler (4th rounder). Then look at the Patriots. Yeah, they were bad last season because of their offense, but their defense remained excellent despite an incredible rash of injuries. The reason? Well, a big one was that their second round safety (Kyle Dugger) was one of the most impactful secondary players in the league and because Julius Peppers was a well-above average player last season. Their safeties, along with Christian Barmore, are what made that defense such a challenge to face.

 

Anyway, I think you might want to rethink your valuation of safeties. They are not the defensive equivalent of RBs (LBs are); they’re more the equivalent, value-wise, of tight ends because like TEs, they have be effective in both the run and pass games. They also need to be smarter than the average defensive player, generally speaking (like TEs on the other side).

I don't mind the investment at S. Bishop was one of my favorite safeties in the draft, and it was not a particularly deep draft at the position. If I had known Hicks was going to slide like he did, well, I think he would have fit our system. I just don't align with whatever their vision of the WR room is. I agree with @Kirby Jackson that they seem to be asking folks to play one level up from where expectations should be comfortable. And Coleman wasn't my pick. I liked Mitchell and McConkey (along with Legette) at #28, 32, 33. I'd have tried to find a way to get two of them.

 

Anyway, it played out the way it did, and now I'm hopeful Coleman can actually be a successful boundary WR (he's likable and athletically gifted, I still worry about separation.) Beane has to bring someone in post 6/1. If they are really satisfied with the WR room standing pat, to me it's Carolina's Cam Newton years redux, only we have yet to even reach a single SB.

[Blackbeard]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He's had six years and four of them with Allen playing out of his mind. 

How many more years are you going to give him? If he wins the division next year and loses in division round again you are ok with that? 

Are you ever going to place ANY blame on personnel?  Injuries?  Schedule?  
 

The fact is he’s produced a TOP team yearly.  He’s a HELL of a good defensive mind.  Is anyone perfect?  No.  But don’t cut your nose off to spite your face. 
 

people forget this is very much a team sport.  The old adage “there is no ‘I’ in team” applies to the coach as well.  Everyone needs to pull their weight.  And a little luck always helps. 

Edited April 28 by Blackbeard

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

There is no strategy in building the O.  Consider, we threw Singletary and Moss overboard with the statements that we wanted to get faster on offense and highlighted Cook.  Then we turn around and draft all but a Moss clone in round 4 this season.  None of our offensive strategy makes much sense and there certainly is zero consistency from season to season, either in coaching or in methodology as to what our Offense is supposed to look like, ... other than for letting Allen be personally responsible for 75%+ of the production.  

 

A good GM will try to acquire players the OC identifies as necessary to execute his vision of the offense.

 

After 4 years of relative consistency under Daboll, the Bills have now had 3 OCs in as many years.

 

Why would one expect consistency from changing OCs with different visions as to what our offense should look like?  Dorsey's vision of the offense appeared to involve small shifty guys (McKenzie, Hines, Harty, even Shakir).  So far, it looks like Joe Brady's vision of the offense involves more power and less finesse.  

 

Week 1 thru 10 with Dorsey as OC the Bills were a heavily pass-favored team, and it wasn't always working - whether because of the receivers, or because of Josh Allen's sprained throwing shoulder, I don't know.  58% pass, 42% run.

 

Week 11 thru 18 with Brady as OC, the Bills were a run-favored team, 48% pass, 52% run

 

Whether that was driven by the personnel at hand, or reflects what Brady really wants to do with a free hand, I don't know - but I would say that moving on from Mitch Morse to Connor McGovern and drafting Coleman would argue that Brady wants the offense to look different.
 

 

Edited April 28 by Beck Water

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Who knows.  None of us are privy to their personal discussions.  

 

Keep in mind, Beane is only here because of McD, you know that.  

 

I'll lean to the side that says if we had a Ben Johnson here, our drafts would look considerably different.  

 

 

 

Oh he is only here because McD hand picked him. No doubt. But Beane running the draft would always look like this IMO. Unless he had a Head Coach who had personnel control over him. 

 

Indeed in terms of draft value via the JJ chart McDermott spent more day 1 and 2 capital in his 1 draft in charge than Beane has in his 7. 

Edited April 28 by GunnerBill

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

Are you ever going to place ANY blame on personnel?  Injuries?  Schedule?  
 

The fact is he’s produced a TOP team yearly.  He’s a HELL of a good defensive mind.  Is anyone perfect?  No.  But don’t cut your nose off to spite your face. 

The thing you need to consider is what is his wins over replacement. Me and others would argue that many other coaches get the same results with Allen as your QB. 

And a few other coaches get more results. 

 

And I dispute your idea he is a great defensive coach. The rankings have been amazing. But we have all seen this team destroy garbage QBs and then not bexable to make stops when it mattered in the playoffs. His defense as choked repeatedly in the biggest moments. 

 

All that said, this is my last ant-McDermott post until the season starts. We are stuck with him and I just can't be negative all summer long. Anything less than a SuperBowl appearance this season and I want a new HC. I hope for a SuperBowl appearance, but I would rather miss the playoffs in the hope McDermott is replaced than lose in the first round of the playoffs.

[Blackbeard]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

The thing you need to consider is what is his wins over replacement. Me and others would argue that many other coaches get the same results with Allen as your QB. 

And a few other coaches get more results. 

 

And I dispute your idea he is a great defensive coach. The rankings have been amazing. But we have all seen this team destroy garbage QBs and then not bexable to make stops when it mattered in the playoffs. His defense as choked repeatedly in the biggest moments. 

 

All that said, this is my last ant-McDermott post until the season starts. We are stuck with him and I just can't be negative all summer long. Anything less than a SuperBowl appearance this season and I want a new HC. I hope for a SuperBowl appearance, but I would rather miss the playoffs in the hope McDermott is replaced than lose in the first round of the playoffs.

I have heard from a reliable source Ron Rivera is available. 
 

😉

[sleeby]

2026-?  That's the focus.  Writing's on the wall.  The NFL will shine on Buffalo for building its newest temple from which to worship it.  

 

Prove me wrong. . .  😘

[loyal2dagame]

18 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

The talent level on this team is so far behind the Niners, Eagles, Chiefs, Lions and Ravens

 

it’s not even close.

 

Funny, alot of people said the same thing last year and we finished the 2 seed. No one should be worried until the team displays a reason to be worried on the field.   I ain't seen it yet. 

Edited April 28 by loyal2dagame

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It absolutely would

Hard disagree. Unless like @GunnerBill said, we get someone that internally demoted him. Like a BB or Shanny or Payton.

 

Beane learned at the test of the 2010s Carolina Panthers. That’s who he is.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do agree thar we haven't prioritised offensive assets - wide receiver in particular even nearly enough. But I am 100% confident that would have been the case wherever Brandon Beane was the GM and whoever his Head Coach was. So long as Beane has personnel control he will prioritise defensive line, linebackers and running backs. It is Carolina 101.

 

Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.  I think Beane prioritizes what the coach wants much more than you believe.

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

A good GM will try to acquire players the OC identifies as necessary to execute his vision of the offense.

 

After 4 years of relative consistency under Daboll, the Bills have now had 3 OCs in as many years.

 

Why would one expect consistency from changing OCs with different visions as to what our offense should look like?  Dorsey's vision of the offense appeared to involve small shifty guys (McKenzie, Hines, Harty, even Shakir).  So far, it looks like Joe Brady's vision of the offense involves more power and less finesse.  

 

Week 1 thru 10 with Dorsey as OC the Bills were a heavily pass-favored team, and it wasn't always working - whether because of the receivers, or because of Josh Allen's sprained throwing shoulder, I don't know.  58% pass, 42% run.

 

Week 11 thru 18 with Brady as OC, the Bills were a run-favored team, 48% pass, 52% run

 

Whether that was driven by the personnel at hand, or reflects what Brady really wants to do with a free hand, I don't know - but I would say that moving on from Mitch Morse to Connor McGovern and drafting Coleman would argue that Brady wants the offense to look different.
 

 

 

Having said all of that, isn't it also their (McBeane's) responsibility to get coaches that align with what they're doing.  Short answer, yes, it is. 

 

So why three different OCs in as many years, all with significantly different philosophies.  

 

That's a more complex question as we get into behind the scenes stuff, but to address the issue.  

 

As to the bolded, I would ask you, what is Beane's vision of the offense?  Does anyone truly know?  We do know that what he's said was different last year than it was this year.  

 

That might be some critical insight.  

 

Secondly, who's the driving force behind the methodology of the offense?  What's their experience?  Track record of success?  

 

That's all I'm hinting at.  

 

 

[ToGoGo]

1 hour ago, Gigs said:

This board is depressing. I feel bad for your families. I'll be back at training camp when the rest of us glass half full and realists invade with positivity since we are the only ones who can see past 40 times and consider mentality and production paramount. 

 

Crying over 40 times and not being able to read between the lines make y'all sound like uninformed babies. I'm willing to bet in person y'all probably have had the Bills at 5 wins total over the last 5 years. Some of you are cool and make actual thoughtful posts and responses, but 80% of this board right now needs to go smoke a bowl and chill tf out. None of you are smarter than the people running the team, or you all would have worked for the Bills at some point. There's a reason we are here and not trading the house for Malik Nabers. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if WGR raids this board and cherry picks some of you ding dongs, heavy into a 12'er of Genny at 8am, ready to make stupid takes so Sal and Jeremy can have a field day with you. I'm tired of the laziness. I'm tired of the melancholy around here; it's like a ***** comedic morgue sometimes. I tried being sarcastic, I tried to reason with all of your logic...it's just so ***** depressing and unintelligent. I love football; and I highly doubt most of you love it as well.

 

It seems more like you need the Bills to win to satisfy your egos, rather than something we can all have and take pride in. So trading Diggs is less a cancer treatment and more a right hook to your egos. Trading back and landing the WR equivalent to JA bruised that ego so bad you're now in a Rocky-esque stupor. Beane did what he felt he needed to do, bruised egos and all. 

 

Respond all you want, I won't read it; I don't care about you're hurt feelings and your "but, but, buts". And my last take (and it's the bitter truth): The Bills haven't won anything because they've been too immature when they go. Jimbos ego cost us 25, plain and simple. Thurman was destroying them, but Jimbo just haaaad to be the one to win it. Not to mention the partying the night before. That's why Beane focused on leadership. He's shifting away from immaturity, look at Diggs. The Chiefs win because they're serious about it, and these moves make us a more serious team in the long run. We need guys like Coleman who drink football instead of those Gennys. We need men, not immature little boys; this ain't the sandlot. 

 

Ffs, you people...

 

Tl;dr This board is immature and sad and most of us are tired of the baby antics because your ego was bruised by long term investment over building a team of super men or MonStars. Also, if the 40 time meant anything as far as success, explain Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith because according to this board's logic Jerry Rice is a scrub compared to Xavier Worthy. Rice ran a full .5 seconds slower than Worthy. Half a second! Yet he will never be caught; how ironic.

Nice post. 
 

“This board is so great the fans are so knowledgeable and informed.”  Yuckkkkkk.