Logic's Buffalo Bills Draft Review -- The more things change, the more they stay the same

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

This is true, but you left out the part about the Bills being desperate for a QB and McDermott trading the #10 pick (for scant return) all the way down to 27 and thus giving the Chiefs a dynasty with Mahomes. And before you tell me how many other teams passed on Mahomes, I don't care. We needed a QB desperately and McDermott not only screwed it up, he created a monster in a conference rival. McDermott got Beane the job. Or, do you think that he just drifted in from the Panthers? 

Let me make this clear: Your posts are great and you certainly are an asset to this board. To take it even a step further, you would be a huge plus to ANY football page, Bills or otherwise. That said, I will never quite grasp how you could think that Beane is the primary decision maker wrt the draft or perhaps even trades.

My guess is that wrt trades, McDermott decided that Diggs had to go (a decision I was fine with btw) and told Beane to get the best deal he could. Would you agree with this take or do you think the decision was all on Beane?

 

I don't think any decision is "all on Beane." That isn't the way they operate. They are VERY collabrative. But Beane makes the decisions on personnel. Of course McDermott got him the job. He was handpicked by McDermott to be his GM. But it is because he wanted someone in charge of personnel he trusted. He trusts Beane. Beane runs personnel. The decisions are his. I am not saying he is overruling McDermott left right and centre. He doesn't have that power and even if he did that isn't how they operate. But he is NOT just doing McDermott's bidding. He is ultimately the guy they trust to take the calls on personnel.

 

On Diggs specificially I am sure the pair of them sat down and discussed what was right for the team, what trading him would mean and how they would then build out a receiving corps. To be honest that kind of trade would be the same anywhere. Even a more traditional linear organisation like Philly or Indy where the Head Coach reports to the GM. They would not make that move without all making sure they are on the same page. 

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Brandon Beane seems to be the opposite of Billy Beane. It is impossible for me to imagine he would tell the scouts “you don’t know” Or to tell McDermott “You play the guys I pick”.  Brandon Beane seems entirely collegial in his demeanor.  I can’t imagine there is any disagreement among Beane and McDermott before the draft begins. 

 

Yep, he isn't that type of person or GM. That isn't how they work together. One doesn't overrule the other. They work together on the strategy and then they let one another execute their role in line with that strategy. For McDermott that means hiring a coaching staff, implementing schemes and managing the game on gamedays. For Beane that means hiring a front office and scouting team, identifying and signing free agents and evaluating and selecting draft prospects. 

[Chaos]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think any decision is "all on Beane." That isn't the way they operate. They are VERY collabrative. But Beane makes the decisions on personnel. Of course McDermott got him the job. He was handpicked by McDermott to be his GM. But it is because he wanted someone in charge of personnel he trusted. He trusts Beane. Beane runs personnel. The decisions are his. I am not saying he is overruling McDermott left right and centre. He doesn't have that power and even if he did that isn't how they operate. But he is NOT just doing McDermott's bidding. He is ultimately the guy they trust to take the calls on personnel.

 

On Diggs specificially I am sure the pair of them sat down and discussed what was right for the team, what trading him would mean and how they would then build out a receiving corps. To be honest that kind of trade would be the same anywhere. Even a more traditional linear organisation like Philly or Indy where the Head Coach reports to the GM. They would not make that move without all making sure they are on the same page. 

 

Yep, he isn't that type of person or GM. That isn't how they work together. One doesn't overrule the other. They work together on the strategy and then they let one another execute their role in line with that strategy. For McDermott that means hiring a coaching staff, implementing schemes and managing the game on gamedays. For Beane that means hiring a front office and scouting team, identifying and signing free agents and evaluating and selecting draft prospects. 

To be clear on my earlier comment I can’t imagine McDermott and

Beane have any disagreements on the Bills Draft Board prior to the draft, and I doubt very much they deviate from that board during the draft.   Which means McDermotts authority on player personnel is closer to equal to Beanes than subordinate to Beanes. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

To be clear on my earlier comment I can’t imagine McDermott and

Beane have any disagreements on the Bills Draft Board prior to the draft, and I doubt very much they deviate from that board during the draft.   Which means McDermotts authority on player personnel is closer to equal to Beanes than subordinate to Beanes. 

 

McDermott doesn't set the draft board. Beane does. I agree that they don't have many disagreements that is because McDemott trusts Beane to do his job. They agree the overall strategy of how they want to approach a season and that stage of the roster build but then it is over to Beane and his staff. They ask the coaching staff to do projects on specific draft prospects but McDermott does not evaluate every player on their draft board. He trusts Beane to do that. 

[OldTimer1960]

Pretty balanced and fair summary.  Like you, I’m not completely sold on Coleman- not because he ran 4.61, but because his college tape doesn’t show him getting open a lot.  Now, he is just turning 21 and he is clearly a tremendous all-around athlete, so those both point to possible significant upside.  I’m hoping that he turns out to be great, but we will have to give him a few years to see.

 

I think the balance of the Bills’ draft is promising and made sense.

 

They have picks stockpiled for next year, after that draft I think/hope that they will be right in the championship mix again.

Edited May 8 by OldTimer1960

[Rocky Landing]

This was a quality writeup, @Logic. Rational, and concise. This could have been featured in The Athletic, and I would have read it with equal interest. Here are some thoughts/responses of my own.

 

1. Keon Coleman - This draft was heralded for its depth at WR, but after the top three of Harrison/Nabers/Odunze (whom we did not have a chance of getting), I think you had a variety of talent that would perhaps go in the first round of a more typical draft class. On TBD, everyone seemed to have their favorite, be it Thomas, Mitchell, McConkey, Leggette, etc. And from the reports, it would seem they chose Josh Allen's favorite. I'm good with that.

2. Cole Bishop - 3. Dewayne Carter - Whenever I hear a pundit say things like, "a day-one starter," or "one of the most NFL ready..." I cringe. But a nice thing that happened in this draft, I think, is that between an enormous run on QBs from QB-needy teams, and the huge class of WRs, a lot of other skill positions got pushed down the board, especially on defense, where the Bills were most needy. In that regard, I think the Bills lucked out with these two picks.

4. Ray Davis - It's hard to ever get too excited about drafting a running back (Cook notwithstanding), but the more I look at this pick, the more I like it. He looks to be durable, and a culture fit. At 215lbs, and only 5'8", he'll play the role of short-yardage power-back, but still has reliable hands as a check-down option. It'll be nice to have such a player that isn't in his mid-30s for a change...

 

5. Sedrick Van Pran - Of all the offseason turnover, the one that makes me shake my head the most is the loss of Mitch Morse. For what the Jags paid him in cap money, we totally could have afforded him. Morse was good, and with his departure, I'm left hoping they have a good plan for the line. Van Pran certainly adds to that hope.

5. Edufuan Ulofoshio - With this pick, and also the recent addition of Deion Jones, I'm really left wondering what they know, or suspect about Milano's prognosis?

5. Javon Soloman - We've had other defensive players who were initially deemed "undersized," who have excelled in our defense-- Milano, and Bernard, being obvious examples. With his character, personality, and athleticism, this seems like the absolute, quintessential Beane/McDermott pick (in the best way).

6. Tylan Grable - When a lot of GMs gets to the sixth round of the draft, they're looking more at overall player value than actual positions of need. That's how we ended up with Jake Fromm. This was a wasted pick, IMO.

6. Daequan Hardy - This looks like one of those late round picks that Beane somehow seems to nail. He does seem to be better at assessing late-round talent than early-round talent. We do play a base nickel defense, and this guy could excel at NCB. With the departure of Siran Neal (who was too old for the position anyway), we were left with Cam Lewis as Taron Johnson's backup. That makes me queasy.

7. Travis Clayton - I attended the Bills at Chargers game in week 16, last season, and I lost track of the number of times I heard over the PA, "...number 76 reporting as an eligible receiver..." and then watched whomever Josh handed the ball to get stuffed at the LOS. It was infuriating, but the Bills seem addicted to that Jumbo package on short yardage situations. Clayton will almost certainly be put on the PS, but it is my great hope that he ends up on the 53 as that sixth Jumbo package OL. And who cares it that 6'7", 300+lb, fast, athletic-freak-rugby-monster can actually play OT??? I want to see him catch a pass from Allen, and flatten the first defender that dares tackle him. Travis Clayton could be to football what Happy Gilmore was to golf.

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

This was a quality writeup, @Logic. Rational, and concise. This could have been featured in The Athletic, and I would have read it with equal interest. Here are some thoughts/responses of my own.

 

1. Keon Coleman - This draft was heralded for its depth at WR, but after the top three of Harrison/Nabers/Odunze (whom we did not have a chance of getting), I think you had a variety of talent that would perhaps go in the first round of a more typical draft class. On TBD, everyone seemed to have their favorite, be it Thomas, Mitchell, McConkey, Leggette, etc. And from the reports, it would seem they chose Josh Allen's favorite. I'm good with that.

2. Cole Bishop - 3. Dewayne Carter - Whenever I hear a pundit say things like, "a day-one starter," or "one of the most NFL ready..." I cringe. But a nice thing that happened in this draft, I think, is that between an enormous run on QBs from QB-needy teams, and the huge class of WRs, a lot of other skill positions got pushed down the board, especially on defense, where the Bills were most needy. In that regard, I think the Bills lucked out with these two picks.

4. Ray Davis - It's hard to ever get too excited about drafting a running back (Cook notwithstanding), but the more I look at this pick, the more I like it. He looks to be durable, and a culture fit. At 215lbs, and only 5'8", he'll play the role of short-yardage power-back, but still has reliable hands as a check-down option. It'll be nice to have such a player that isn't in his mid-30s for a change...

 

5. Sedrick Van Pran - Of all the offseason turnover, the one that makes me shake my head the most is the loss of Mitch Morse. For what the Jags paid him in cap money, we totally could have afforded him. Morse was good, and with his departure, I'm left hoping they have a good plan for the line. Van Pran certainly adds to that hope.

5. Edufuan Ulofoshio - With this pick, and also the recent addition of Deion Jones, I'm really left wondering what they know, or suspect about Milano's prognosis?

5. Javon Soloman - We've had other defensive players who were initially deemed "undersized," who have excelled in our defense-- Milano, and Bernard, being obvious examples. With his character, personality, and athleticism, this seems like the absolute, quintessential Beane/McDermott pick (in the best way).

6. Tylan Grable - When a lot of GMs gets to the sixth round of the draft, they're looking more at overall player value than actual positions of need. That's how we ended up with Jake Fromm. This was a wasted pick, IMO.

6. Daequan Hardy - This looks like one of those late round picks that Beane somehow seems to nail. He does seem to be better at assessing late-round talent than early-round talent. We do play a base nickel defense, and this guy could excel at NCB. With the departure of Siran Neal (who was too old for the position anyway), we were left with Cam Lewis as Taron Johnson's backup. That makes me queasy.

7. Travis Clayton - I attended the Bills at Chargers game in week 16, last season, and I lost track of the number of times I heard over the PA, "...number 76 reporting as an eligible receiver..." and then watched whomever Josh handed the ball to get stuffed at the LOS. It was infuriating, but the Bills seem addicted to that Jumbo package on short yardage situations. Clayton will almost certainly be put on the PS, but it is my great hope that he ends up on the 53 as that sixth Jumbo package OL. And who cares it that 6'7", 300+lb, fast, athletic-freak-rugby-monster can actually play OT??? I want to see him catch a pass from Allen, and flatten the first defender that dares tackle him. Travis Clayton could be to football what Happy Gilmore was to golf.

Thanks for the kind words, and for contributing your own thoughts on the class.

I particularly think what you say about Bishop and Carter being pushed down the board (to the Bills' benefit) is true. 

I also think the drafting of Ulofoshio and signing of Deion Jones portends that maybe Matt Milano's road to being the player he once was isn't as clear cut as fans might like to hope.

You bring up an interesting point about Hardy: I viewed him only as a kick returner, which is still where I think his primary value lies. Particularly with the new kickoff rules, I think having a good returner will be valuable once again. HOWEVER...if this guy can make the roster for his return role, but then learn to be a viable pro level nickel corner in the background...that would be huge. "Depth at nickel" isn't something I think about much, but it's true that Taron Johnson is one awkward landing or collision away from unavailability, just like any other player, so having a decent backup in place (particularly for a defense that plays as much nickel as the Bills) would be a great thing.

And lastly, the Travis Clayton as Happy Gilmore line made me laugh. Thanks for that.

 

[Rocky Landing]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of course he doesn't take guys the Head Coach doesn't want. They are very tight with each other they share a vision for how the team is built. But the decisions on personnel are Brandon Beane's. They way this roster is built bears all the hallmarks of the Hurney / Gettleman builds in Carolina when Beane was a senior exec in that front office. This is a Brandon Beane built roster. He makes the personnel decisions. 

It strikes me that a couple years after McDermott, and Beane arrived in Buffalo, the process by which they rebuilt the team became a blueprint that other teams tried to emulate, and intrinsic to that blueprint was the relationship between head coach, and general manager. Indeed, during the long drought years, the Bills floundered through pairings of coaches, and GMs who were clearly not on the same page.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

This was a quality writeup, @Logic. Rational, and concise. This could have been featured in The Athletic, and I would have read it with equal interest. Here are some thoughts/responses of my own.

 

1. Keon Coleman - This draft was heralded for its depth at WR, but after the top three of Harrison/Nabers/Odunze (whom we did not have a chance of getting), I think you had a variety of talent that would perhaps go in the first round of a more typical draft class. On TBD, everyone seemed to have their favorite, be it Thomas, Mitchell, McConkey, Leggette, etc. And from the reports, it would seem they chose Josh Allen's favorite. I'm good with that.

2. Cole Bishop - 3. Dewayne Carter - Whenever I hear a pundit say things like, "a day-one starter," or "one of the most NFL ready..." I cringe. But a nice thing that happened in this draft, I think, is that between an enormous run on QBs from QB-needy teams, and the huge class of WRs, a lot of other skill positions got pushed down the board, especially on defense, where the Bills were most needy. In that regard, I think the Bills lucked out with these two picks.

4. Ray Davis - It's hard to ever get too excited about drafting a running back (Cook notwithstanding), but the more I look at this pick, the more I like it. He looks to be durable, and a culture fit. At 215lbs, and only 5'8", he'll play the role of short-yardage power-back, but still has reliable hands as a check-down option. It'll be nice to have such a player that isn't in his mid-30s for a change...

 

5. Sedrick Van Pran - Of all the offseason turnover, the one that makes me shake my head the most is the loss of Mitch Morse. For what the Jags paid him in cap money, we totally could have afforded him. Morse was good, and with his departure, I'm left hoping they have a good plan for the line. Van Pran certainly adds to that hope.

5. Edufuan Ulofoshio - With this pick, and also the recent addition of Deion Jones, I'm really left wondering what they know, or suspect about Milano's prognosis?

5. Javon Soloman - We've had other defensive players who were initially deemed "undersized," who have excelled in our defense-- Milano, and Bernard, being obvious examples. With his character, personality, and athleticism, this seems like the absolute, quintessential Beane/McDermott pick (in the best way).

6. Tylan Grable - When a lot of GMs gets to the sixth round of the draft, they're looking more at overall player value than actual positions of need. That's how we ended up with Jake Fromm. This was a wasted pick, IMO.

6. Daequan Hardy - This looks like one of those late round picks that Beane somehow seems to nail. He does seem to be better at assessing late-round talent than early-round talent. We do play a base nickel defense, and this guy could excel at NCB. With the departure of Siran Neal (who was too old for the position anyway), we were left with Cam Lewis as Taron Johnson's backup. That makes me queasy.

7. Travis Clayton - I attended the Bills at Chargers game in week 16, last season, and I lost track of the number of times I heard over the PA, "...number 76 reporting as an eligible receiver..." and then watched whomever Josh handed the ball to get stuffed at the LOS. It was infuriating, but the Bills seem addicted to that Jumbo package on short yardage situations. Clayton will almost certainly be put on the PS, but it is my great hope that he ends up on the 53 as that sixth Jumbo package OL. And who cares it that 6'7", 300+lb, fast, athletic-freak-rugby-monster can actually play OT??? I want to see him catch a pass from Allen, and flatten the first defender that dares tackle him. Travis Clayton could be to football what Happy Gilmore was to golf.

 

Good thoughts. Since we're hijacking Logic's thread, here's my updated thoughts on the picks one week out:

 

Keon Coleman - I still love this pick, and if anything I like it even more now having heard some of his interviews. Even as someone that loved the player more than most, I knew his skill set would take refinement and he would likely not immediately hit the ground running. I'm more confident now that he will reach his ceiling because it sounds like he genuinely will put his best foot forward and not just coast off of his physical talent.

 

Cole Bishop - I still don't like the value of a safety at this spot in the draft. I get why the Bills love him -  9.88 RAS score, seems very coachable and studious. Just feels like a position we could have gotten two rounds later without a big drop off, if any, in the impact on the field. I still think we missed out on taking a good OL talent at this spot. Bishop will have to be a truly great player to justify this selection IMO.

 

DeWayne Carter - I still don't have a strong opinion on this player. DT is one of the positions where I have trouble trying to project their success at the next level. I'm fine with the value of a DT at this spot in the draft. I worry that the Bills graded him a half round higher than they should based on his character and passed on more talented prospects as a result. But I'm in wait and see mode on this one.

 

Ray Davis - This is probably the pick that has grown on me the most. I still don't like the value of a RB this high, but the player I have grown to like. Davis runs the way that I like my RBs to run - always moving forward. Even when he jukes he isn't gathering his steps for an eternity, he just picks his direction and goes. His pass protection on the other hand I'm not as high on. It's a very boom or bust technique that he uses - he lowers his shoulder to thump the rusher instead of anchoring and using leverage. It looks highlight reel worthy when it works, but when it doesn't he might as well be a turnstile because he doesn't even slow the rusher down. Much like I feel with Cole Bishop, Davis will need to become a really good player to justify the selection. I think the tools to become that are there at least.

 

Sedrick Van Pran-Granger - Still feel very good about this pick. It's the only pick where I feel that we got better value than the draft capital we spent. Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. I think he could start for us this year with McGovern at LG, and put David Edwards back in the backup role where he belongs.

 

Edefuan Ulofoshio - This is the pick I'm still the most perplexed about. I don't see what he adds to the roster. He's an older rookie that's already suffered two major injuries. He apparently has below average instincts which is by far the most important trait for LBs in the modern NFL, even moreso in McDermott's defense. It's a position where we already have a lot of depth. Was the goal here just to draft a special teams player? This pick feels DOA like the Vosean Joseph pick a few years back but I guess we'll see.

 

Javon Solomon - From hearing Beane talk about him, doesn't sound like this is a player that fits into our 4-3 defense, they just thought his value was too good to pass up at this spot in the draft. I'm good with that. He'll be a cheap rotational designated pass rusher for three years. Can't argue with the pick.

 

Tylan Grable/Travis Clayton - I'm putting these two together because I have identical thoughts about them. I think Beane has gotten so frustrated by our 6th and 7th rounders getting poached by other teams at final cutdowns that he finally just drafted two players that have almost no chance of being poached. Both are way too raw for any team to devote a roster spot to them, I think. So essentially we drafted two PS players. I don't know how I feel about that. I've been saying we should be more willing to let 6th and 7th rounders make the roster as depth players and special teamers. Beane instead decided to circumvent the entire issue by drafting non-rosterable players. Interesting strategy...

 

Daequan Hardy - I've seen a lot of people call this pick a steal in the 6th round. I'm not as confident of that after watching some of his film. He is certainly competitive out there but man he just gets roasted off the line way too frequently. I think he will have a hell of a time covering slot WRs at the next level, especially in McDermott's defense where Taron Johnson is asked to do a little bit of everything. But hey as a punt returner and special teams contributor I'm good with that in the 6th round. Just not going to expect anything more than that.

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Good thoughts. Since we're hijacking Logic's thread, here's my updated thoughts on the picks one week out:

 

Keon Coleman - I still love this pick, and if anything I like it even more now having heard some of his interviews. Even as someone that loved the player more than most, I knew his skill set would take refinement and he would likely not immediately hit the ground running. I'm more confident now that he will reach his ceiling because it sounds like he genuinely will put his best foot forward and not just coast off of his physical talent.

 

Cole Bishop - I still don't like the value of a safety at this spot in the draft. I get why the Bills love him -  9.88 RAS score, seems very coachable and studious. Just feels like a position we could have gotten two rounds later without a big drop off, if any, in the impact on the field. I still think we missed out on taking a good OL talent at this spot. Bishop will have to be a truly great player to justify this selection IMO.

 

DeWayne Carter - I still don't have a strong opinion on this player. DT is one of the positions where I have trouble trying to project their success at the next level. I'm fine with the value of a DT at this spot in the draft. I worry that the Bills graded him a half round higher than they should based on his character and passed on more talented prospects as a result. But I'm in wait and see mode on this one.

 

Ray Davis - This is probably the pick that has grown on me the most. I still don't like the value of a RB this high, but the player I have grown to like. Davis runs the way that I like my RBs to run - always moving forward. Even when he jukes he isn't gathering his steps for an eternity, he just picks his direction and goes. His pass protection on the other hand I'm not as high on. It's a very boom or bust technique that he uses - he lowers his shoulder to thump the rusher instead of anchoring and using leverage. It looks highlight reel worthy when it works, but when it doesn't he might as well be a turnstile because he doesn't even slow the rusher down. Much like I feel with Cole Bishop, Davis will need to become a really good player to justify the selection. I think the tools to become that are there at least.

 

Sedrick Van Pran-Granger - Still feel very good about this pick. It's the only pick where I feel that we got better value than the draft capital we spent. Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. I think he could start for us this year with McGovern at LG, and put David Edwards back in the backup role where he belongs.

 

Edefuan Ulofoshio - This is the pick I'm still the most perplexed about. I don't see what he adds to the roster. He's an older rookie that's already suffered two major injuries. He apparently has below average instincts which is by far the most important trait for LBs in the modern NFL, even moreso in McDermott's defense. It's a position where we already have a lot of depth. Was the goal here just to draft a special teams player? This pick feels DOA like the Vosean Joseph pick a few years back but I guess we'll see.

 

Javon Solomon - From hearing Beane talk about him, doesn't sound like this is a player that fits into our 4-3 defense, they just thought his value was too good to pass up at this spot in the draft. I'm good with that. He'll be a cheap rotational designated pass rusher for three years. Can't argue with the pick.

 

Tylan Grable/Travis Clayton - I'm putting these two together because I have identical thoughts about them. I think Beane has gotten so frustrated by our 6th and 7th rounders getting poached by other teams at final cutdowns that he finally just drafted two players that have almost no chance of being poached. Both are way too raw for any team to devote a roster spot to them, I think. So essentially we drafted two PS players. I don't know how I feel about that. I've been saying we should be more willing to let 6th and 7th rounders make the roster as depth players and special teamers. Beane instead decided to circumvent the entire issue by drafting non-rosterable players. Interesting strategy...

 

Daequan Hardy - I've seen a lot of people call this pick a steal in the 6th round. I'm not as confident of that after watching some of his film. He is certainly competitive out there but man he just gets roasted off the line way too frequently. I think he will have a hell of a time covering slot WRs at the next level, especially in McDermott's defense where Taron Johnson is asked to do a little bit of everything. But hey as a punt returner and special teams contributor I'm good with that in the 6th round. Just not going to expect anything more than that.

Just to echo the SVPG pick.

 

he just feels like the pick that 3 years from now is gonna be firmly a hit and a steal.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Just to echo the SVPG pick.

 

he just feels like the pick that 3 years from now is gonna be firmly a hit and a steal.

 

He's the type of player that makes drafting a player like Jackson Powers-Johnson in the 1st round such an obvious waste of resources. The impact of JPJ on the field versus SVPG on the field is not worth four entire rounds of draft value. Similarly this is why I'm lower on the Bishop pick than just about anybody.

[Logic]

34 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Good thoughts. Since we're hijacking Logic's thread, here's my updated thoughts on the picks one week out:

 

Keon Coleman - I still love this pick, and if anything I like it even more now having heard some of his interviews. Even as someone that loved the player more than most, I knew his skill set would take refinement and he would likely not immediately hit the ground running. I'm more confident now that he will reach his ceiling because it sounds like he genuinely will put his best foot forward and not just coast off of his physical talent.

 

Cole Bishop - I still don't like the value of a safety at this spot in the draft. I get why the Bills love him -  9.88 RAS score, seems very coachable and studious. Just feels like a position we could have gotten two rounds later without a big drop off, if any, in the impact on the field. I still think we missed out on taking a good OL talent at this spot. Bishop will have to be a truly great player to justify this selection IMO.

 

DeWayne Carter - I still don't have a strong opinion on this player. DT is one of the positions where I have trouble trying to project their success at the next level. I'm fine with the value of a DT at this spot in the draft. I worry that the Bills graded him a half round higher than they should based on his character and passed on more talented prospects as a result. But I'm in wait and see mode on this one.

 

Ray Davis - This is probably the pick that has grown on me the most. I still don't like the value of a RB this high, but the player I have grown to like. Davis runs the way that I like my RBs to run - always moving forward. Even when he jukes he isn't gathering his steps for an eternity, he just picks his direction and goes. His pass protection on the other hand I'm not as high on. It's a very boom or bust technique that he uses - he lowers his shoulder to thump the rusher instead of anchoring and using leverage. It looks highlight reel worthy when it works, but when it doesn't he might as well be a turnstile because he doesn't even slow the rusher down. Much like I feel with Cole Bishop, Davis will need to become a really good player to justify the selection. I think the tools to become that are there at least.

 

Sedrick Van Pran-Granger - Still feel very good about this pick. It's the only pick where I feel that we got better value than the draft capital we spent. Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. I think he could start for us this year with McGovern at LG, and put David Edwards back in the backup role where he belongs.

 

Edefuan Ulofoshio - This is the pick I'm still the most perplexed about. I don't see what he adds to the roster. He's an older rookie that's already suffered two major injuries. He apparently has below average instincts which is by far the most important trait for LBs in the modern NFL, even moreso in McDermott's defense. It's a position where we already have a lot of depth. Was the goal here just to draft a special teams player? This pick feels DOA like the Vosean Joseph pick a few years back but I guess we'll see.

 

Javon Solomon - From hearing Beane talk about him, doesn't sound like this is a player that fits into our 4-3 defense, they just thought his value was too good to pass up at this spot in the draft. I'm good with that. He'll be a cheap rotational designated pass rusher for three years. Can't argue with the pick.

 

Tylan Grable/Travis Clayton - I'm putting these two together because I have identical thoughts about them. I think Beane has gotten so frustrated by our 6th and 7th rounders getting poached by other teams at final cutdowns that he finally just drafted two players that have almost no chance of being poached. Both are way too raw for any team to devote a roster spot to them, I think. So essentially we drafted two PS players. I don't know how I feel about that. I've been saying we should be more willing to let 6th and 7th rounders make the roster as depth players and special teamers. Beane instead decided to circumvent the entire issue by drafting non-rosterable players. Interesting strategy...

 

Daequan Hardy - I've seen a lot of people call this pick a steal in the 6th round. I'm not as confident of that after watching some of his film. He is certainly competitive out there but man he just gets roasted off the line way too frequently. I think he will have a hell of a time covering slot WRs at the next level, especially in McDermott's defense where Taron Johnson is asked to do a little bit of everything. But hey as a punt returner and special teams contributor I'm good with that in the 6th round. Just not going to expect anything more than that.

This is great.

I'm loving people adding their own thoughts on our draft class, especially having had a week to digest it and dig into the players more.

Lots of value added by you and Rocky Landing. Thanks to you both.

I'll add that I'm kind of "over" drafting raw, toolsy offensive tackles in the late rounds that have next to no chance of being rosterable. Luke Tenuta, Grable and Clayton...heck, even Tommy Doyle in round five.

I understand the IDEA of gambling on upside that late in the draft, but...these just feel like wasted picks to me. You're telling me that with Dawkins, Brown, La'el Collins, and Ryan VanDemark on the roster, that these two guys have any shot of making the 53? No way. If they were dead set on taking swings on physical upside this late in the draft, I'd rather they at least do it at a position where the prospect has a better shot at making the roster, like corner or WR.

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He's the type of player that makes drafting a player like Jackson Powers-Johnson in the 1st round such an obvious waste of resources. The impact of JPJ on the field versus SVPG on the field is not worth four entire rounds of draft value. Similarly this is why I'm lower on the Bishop pick than just about anybody.

Hey man. you don't gotta tell me.

 

The biggest feather in this regime's cap was turning an unheralded fifth round rotational DB and a 7th round backup into All-Pro/Pro-Bowl caliber safeties. Wish we could just target guys like that again instead of chasing them in the 2nd round.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hey man. you don't gotta tell me.

 

The biggest feather in this regime's cap was turning an unheralded fifth round rotational DB and a 7th round backup into All-Pro/Pro-Bowl caliber safeties. Wish we could just target guys like that again instead of chasing them in the 2nd round.

 

The problem is they have nothing on the roster at safety. Before FA I was very much in the "make safety your FA priority" camp. But they didn't. They re-signed two backup level players and signed another backup level player. Going in with Rapp - Edwards - Lewis - Hamlin would have been the sort of group bad enough to be a liability so the value above replacement of Bishop is considerably higher. So while spending a 2nd rounder on a safety doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies their overall resource allocation at safety this offseason is still pretty negligible and forced them into doing something in the draft. I don't think any of the other 3 are even serviceable NFL starters. 

Edited May 7 by GunnerBill

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The problem is they have nothing on the roster at safety. Before FA I was very much in the "make safety your FA priority" camp. But they didn't. They re-signed two backup level players and signed another backup level player. Going in with Rapp - Edwards - Lewis - Hamlin would have been the sort of group bad enough to be a liability so the value above replacement of Bishop is considerably higher. So while spending a 2nd rounder on a safety doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies their overall resource allocation at safety this offseason is still pretty negligible and forced them into doing something in the draft. I don't think any of the other 3 are even serviceable NFL starters. 

 

It's about the drop off from round to round. Cole Bishop to Jaden Hicks is a much lesser drop off than say Kingsley Suamataia to Giovanni Manu. In any case safeties are the second cheapest position behind only RB so it just isn't a great use of resources taking one in the top 75 or so picks IMO. A perceived short term need shouldn't change the strategy.

 

And that's my overall takeaway from the draft as a whole - we didn't come away with a lot of great value. If you asked analysts before the draft what are the weak positions, they would have said DL, SAF, and RB. We spent the entire middle of our draft selecting those exact positions... For all the talk of a deep WR and OL class, we took one player total from those positions out of the first 140 picks.

[Logic]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's about the drop off from round to round. Cole Bishop to Jaden Hicks is a much lesser drop off than say Kingsley Suamataia to Giovanni Manu. In any case safeties are the second cheapest position behind only RB so it just isn't a great use of resources taking one in the top 75 or so picks IMO. A perceived short term need shouldn't change the strategy.

 

And that's my overall takeaway from the draft as a whole - we didn't come away with a lot of great value. If you asked analysts before the draft what are the weak positions, they would have said DL, SAF, and RB. We spent the entire middle of our draft selecting those exact positions... For all the talk of a deep WR and OL class, we took one player total from those positions out of the first 140 picks.

My thinking is similar to this, but for the Ray Davis pick. 

I feel that historically, the dropoff in career production from 4th round running backs to, say, 6th round through UDFA level running backs is likely minimal.

I wish they had spent the 4th on a wide receiver instead -- it's a more valuable position and we had a greater need for it, and this draft class was better at that position. I would've been fine with using one or two of the later round picks to move up higher in the 4th for said receiver, too. Then, they could've used one of the later picks on a running back or signed a few UDFAs. 

Alternately, I wish they had taken the combined money they've spent on the Cephuses, Claypools, and Hollinses of the world and used it on a lower tier veteran running back instead, freeing up their draft resources from the need for a running back completely. Receiver was simply more of a need and at a more premium position.
 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's about the drop off from round to round. Cole Bishop to Jaden Hicks is a much lesser drop off than say Kingsley Suamataia to Giovanni Manu. In any case safeties are the second cheapest position behind only RB so it just isn't a great use of resources taking one in the top 75 or so picks IMO. A perceived short term need shouldn't change the strategy.

 

And that's my overall takeaway from the draft as a whole - we didn't come away with a lot of great value. If you asked analysts before the draft what are the weak positions, they would have said DL, SAF, and RB. We spent the entire middle of our draft selecting those exact positions... For all the talk of a deep WR and OL class, we took one player total from those positions out of the first 140 picks.

 

I don't disagree with that in principle. But the Bills backed themselves into a corner at safety with how they handled free agency. Because the drop off from Bishop to the three stiffs on the roster might be greater than the drop off at any other position on the entire team.

 

Btw I don't think people would have said safety was a weak class. It was weak at the top, sure. But the sweet spot was always late 2nd to early 4th. The safety class was one of the stronger groups in that range.... sort of 60 to pick 120. In fact 10 went between #58 and #133. I know your point is that made it silly to use #60 on one and not your 3rd or 4th rounder but again they backed themselves into a corner there with how they approached free agency. 

 

I woulda gone about the offseason differently. But from where they put themselves they HAD to come out of the draft with a safety who could start early for them. The alternative would have been horrific. 

 

It was a draft for need though. The first four picks were at the spots where they had the biggest holes on the roster. Some people might believe that was coincidence and following the board. I don't. In actual fact of the four Bishop was the best value in terms of my board at the spot he was taken.

Edited May 7 by GunnerBill

[BigAl2526]

1. Keon Coleman - I think it is obvious Buffalo plans to start him a WR.  I don't know if he'll be a star, especially right away, but with Josh Alan as QB, he's going to get his chances.

2. Cole Bishop - Yes, he should be a starter by mid-season if not sooner.  He's got the skill set to be a ten year starter.

3. Dewayne Carter - I'm wondering if he's going to make us think of Harrison Phillips.  Isn't he supposed to Kyle Williams like snap anticipation ability.  Not super athletic, but seems to be the kind of player who gets the most out of what he has.

4. Ray Davis - He's going to be a role player early on.  I'm guessing he's average maybe 10 carries a game early in his career and help keep Cook fresh.

5. Sedrick Van Pran - I agree, he will start at some point. I would not rule out Buffalo moving McGovern back to guard and starting Van Pran this season.

5. Edufuan Ulofoshio - As you say, a special teamer in the near term.  The Bills will teach him how to play linebacker in their system.  I don't know whether the focus will be at the Mike position or the Will spot.  

5. Javon Soloman - I think this is kind of a fun pick.  I think he's going to have a role both on special teams and as a situational pass rusher on defense.  I also think he's got more potential to surprise on the upside than most are giving him credit for. 

6. Tylan Grable - Practice squad for a year or two.  Then we'll see. 

6. Daequan Hardy - Yes, Taron Johnso is the undisputed starter at slot cornerback, but it would be nice if he had a reliable backup who could take enough reps to keep him fresh and provide some insurance in case of injury.  I think that's what Buffalo is hoping for in addition to Hardy's special teams contribution.

7. Travis Clayton - I agree he's a fun draft pick.  I'm thinking PS for at least two years and then throw him into the mix at tackle.  His freaky athleticism has got to be giving Beane some pleasant dreams though.

[Jay_Fixit]

On 4/27/2024 at 3:23 PM, MJS said:

That's what I'm doing. I'm discussing people's lack of knowledge and speculating that they know nothing about these players.

This is the answer to all of the questions. And I’m here for it.

 

Nobody. Knows. Anything.

 

Post draft reactions. Lol.

[Meatloaf63]

On 4/27/2024 at 4:17 PM, Logic said:

Right now, I agree with you. I think the Bills are further from Super Bowl contention right now than they were at season's end. Some of that was bound to happen due to salary cap implications and aging players that left, but...I can't help but agree. You either step forward, backward, or stand pat in a given offseason. At BEST, I feel the Bills stood pat, but I think it's more likely that they took a step back.

Nope at seasons end they were missing significant players and lost to the SB champions by a few points. They are in a much better position now as long as Milano returns healthy than when they last waked off the field.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Nope at seasons end they were missing significant players and lost to the SB champions by a few points. They are in a much better position now as long as Milano returns healthy than when they last waked off the field.

I think you're kind of overlooking the vast amount of experience and leadership and production they lost.

Jordan Poyer, Micah Hyde, and Stefon Diggs were each All-Pros. You don't typically lose three All-Pros and not miss a beat, even if two of them were a bit past their prime.

Mitch Morse was a very good center and a leader on this team, and he's gone, too.

The Bills' leading sack producer from last season, Leonard Floyd, is gone.

Between Diggs and Davis leaving, over 250 targets in the passing game were vacated. 

I'm really not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that the Bills are in a better position -- or, as you say "much better" position -- than they were last year. If you go position group for position group and ask whether they're better, worse, or the same, you won't come up with many (any?) "betters", but you'll find a few "worses".

I'm just not sure how anyone can say they look to have improved as things stand now. COULD they be better? Sure. But on paper, it sure doesn't look that way.