Buffalo716 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doc said: I hear what you're saying, but then I look at the Chiefs in 2021. They drafted Humphrey in the 2nd round and Trey Smith (RG) in the 5th round and both started from Day 1 despite the Chiefs having just gone to the SB and having an All-World QB they wanted to protect. I'm sure there was an OL like McGovern who by all accounts should have started over Humphrey, but they took the chance. And Torrence is a 2nd year RG, not a rookie like Smith. And another thing to consider is that, while McGovern has more professional experience, Van Pran has spent the last 8 years playing only center, and the last 3 years on the premier college football program that finished 1st, 1st and 5th in the nation, often times going up against future NFL players. McGovern OTOH hasn't played center since his sophomore season in college and 1 game as a junior. Now I agree that Van Pran likely won't win the starting job because I don't see the Bills taking a chance like the Chiefs did. But you never know. Yes the only thing that is giving vpg the leg up right now... Is that he has been playing strictly center and starting for years in the sec Which is AAA to the MLB... He has been groomed Now the flip side of the coin... Is that in the modern NFL.. it's physically tougher to play guard because they get more one-on-ones Center is mentally tougher... Centers can be smaller better athletes... Guards need to be big mauling athletes If McGovern has the mental aptitude to play center which he says he was being groomed for in Dallas... Then he physically is one of the bigger more athletic centers in the NFL Vpg while he might not have the mass of McGovern... Can use use his experience to mentally be a step ahead Does McGovern have the ability to still think like a center after not playing it for years? That can be the difference.. physically he should be very good Edited May 1 by Buffalo716 3 Quote
SydneyBillsFan Posted May 1 Posted May 1 I really want this guy to be the starting centre. That would allow McGovern to stay at G resulting in a straight swap of VPG for Morse and - minimal disruption / increased continuity to the OL. It would also allow us to use Edwards in jumbo packages as well as having a very capable swing IOL. Be keeping a close eye on VPG. 3 4 Quote
Meatloaf63 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 12 hours ago, Doc said: I think that it will be tough for Van Pran-Gran to unseat McGovern. But if he does... It’s not about unseating McGovern if he is better somewhere else on the line. It’s not McGovern going to the bench, it’s about putting the 5 best lineman on the field. This very well be Mcgovern at center but it may not. 1 1 Quote
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 1 Posted May 1 43 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said: It’s not about unseating McGovern if he is better somewhere else on the line. It’s not McGovern going to the bench, it’s about putting the 5 best lineman on the field. This very well be Mcgovern at center but it may not. Truly this. 1 Quote
Doc Posted May 1 Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said: It’s not about unseating McGovern if he is better somewhere else on the line. It’s not McGovern going to the bench, it’s about putting the 5 best lineman on the field. This very well be Mcgovern at center but it may not. I'm just going by the Bills getting rid of Morse and Bates and re-signing Edwards. If Edwards proves to be such a disaster at LG that McGovern has to be moved back, they seriously screwed up. 1 Quote
BigDingus Posted May 1 Posted May 1 I may have my expectations too high, but if he doesn't win the starting C spot I'll be disappointed. He's my favorite pick in this draft, and it'd be awesome to see a talented young center takeover & anchor the line. The more I learn about him, the more hyped up I get! He's got the potential to be our best player in this class, and that's no disrespect to Coleman or the others. 1 Quote
SCBills Posted May 1 Posted May 1 43 minutes ago, BigDingus said: I may have my expectations too high, but if he doesn't win the starting C spot I'll be disappointed. He's my favorite pick in this draft, and it'd be awesome to see a talented young center takeover & anchor the line. The more I learn about him, the more hyped up I get! He's got the potential to be our best player in this class, and that's no disrespect to Coleman or the others. If VPG had position flex, he would've been a Day 2 Pick. If he was a Day 2 pick, we'd reasonably expect him to be our starting Center. We got him in RD5 because that's really all he can do. Kromer will obviously cross train him some at Guard, but he's truly built to be a Center (and could be a very good one at that) but is likely a liability anywhere else. I too will be disappointed if he's not starting. I think McGovern can be good at Center, but if we can keep all 4 positions from last year the same and only swap out Morse for VPG, that seems ideal. 4 Quote
Shaw66 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: As I've said multiple times... There is literally next to no chance.. a short-armed , smaller center who struggles with technique .. could beat out a NFL starter... With center experience in college... And is now one of the strongest biggest centers in the league It will be next to impossible to beat him out in 1 year... Maybe next season or the year after You're not unseating an the NFL veteran who is big for his position year 1... Who is starting quality I have to agree. Guy's started at center in a big-time college program, so it's practically a given that he has the mental skills to play the position now. Given that, it's telling that he fell to the fifth round. It must be clear to the scouts and GMs that his physical limitations raise real questions about whether he ever can succeed in the NFL, let alone start as a rookie. If he wins the starting job as a rookie, he will be the steal of the draft. Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted May 1 Posted May 1 22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: If he wins the starting job as a rookie, he will be the steal of the draft. Correct, unless some receiver in the 5th round becomes Puca Nucua 2.0. 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I have to agree. Guy's started at center in a big-time college program, so it's practically a given that he has the mental skills to play the position now. Given that, it's telling that he fell to the fifth round. It must be clear to the scouts and GMs that his physical limitations raise real questions about whether he ever can succeed in the NFL, let alone start as a rookie. If he wins the starting job as a rookie, he will be the steal of the draft. His short arms and inconsistent ability to play with good technique are definitely his biggest flaws If the bills online coach can basically mold his technique over the next year... And get him into the weight room... I can see taking the next step at the NFL level But he needs to work on his technique and gain some Mass Quote
Shaw66 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: His short arms and inconsistent ability to play with good technique are definitely his biggest flaws If the bills online coach can basically mold his technique over the next year... And get him into the weight room... I can see taking the next step at the NFL level But he needs to work on his technique and gain some Mass Fifth round picks usually are projects of some sort. This is no exception. Have the Bills invested in an arm-stretching machine yet? 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 1 minute ago, Shaw66 said: Fifth round picks usually are projects of some sort. This is no exception. Have the Bills invested in an arm-stretching machine yet? Hahahah the rack! I have seen it around some of the seedier parts of one Bills drive 🤣 What also hurt his draft stock is that he is basically a center only... The bills and most of the NFL value position flexibility If you're a large guard who can play right tackle it's a boost... If you're an athletic big guard who could play center... It's boost If you can play left and right tackle it's a boost He is strictly a center... In the modern NFL that probably did push him down another round.. what I do like about him... Is that he is a very aggressive blocker... You can't teach aggression... It's a trait you have or don't Quote
TheFunPolice Posted May 1 Posted May 1 no matter what happens, you can never have too many good OL it's a position league-wide that is weak, so if the Bills can stock some talent and have a nice pipeline that's a great spot to be in! Many teams don't have 5 good OL, and then if someone goes down it's panic time. Quote
Shaw66 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Hahahah the rack! I have seen it around some of the seedier parts of one Bills drive 🤣 What also hurt his draft stock is that he is basically a center only... The bills and most of the NFL value position flexibility If you're a large guard who can play right tackle it's a boost... If you're an athletic big guard who could play center... It's boost If you can play left and right tackle it's a boost He is strictly a center... In the modern NFL that probably did push him down another round.. what I do like about him... Is that he is a very aggressive blocker... You can't teach aggression... It's a trait you have or don't I mentioned something the other day that I liked about this draft, which is that they took guys with significant upside throughout the draft. Coleman, Bishop, Carter, Davis, Van Pran-Granger, Ulofoshio, Solomon, Grable, Hardy, and Clayton. Each one is a guy who, if he pans out, will end up being a bargain, and each is a guy who actually could pan out. . 1 Quote
Robert Paulson Posted May 1 Posted May 1 The best 5 start- we will know mid August who they are and who the next 3 of 5 backups are. The 9th and 10th linemen will be tough calls. Quote
Buffalo716 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I mentioned something the other day that I liked about this draft, which is that they took guys with significant upside throughout the draft. Coleman, Bishop, Carter, Davis, Van Pran-Granger, Ulofoshio, Solomon, Grable, Hardy, and Clayton. Each one is a guy who, if he pans out, will end up being a bargain, and each is a guy who actually could pan out. . Very excited with the draft and I think Beane did a great job He lets the board fall to him and he has an eye for good football players... Vpg is a football player through and through You couldn't measure Matt milano's heart coming out 2 Quote
NoName Posted May 1 Posted May 1 19 hours ago, Doc said: I think that it will be tough for Van Pran-Gran to unseat McGovern. But if he does... Is he really competing against McGovern? Or is he competing against Edwards? Quote
Green Lightning Posted May 1 Posted May 1 19 hours ago, Doc said: I think that it will be tough for Van Pran-Gran to unseat McGovern. But if he does... I don't rule out Van Pran starting. He's played a lot of ball with an elite team in an elite conference. If Edwards falters at LG, I can see moving McGovern back there if VP is looking decent. Quote
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted May 1 Posted May 1 Did you guys know Jeff Saturday had 31 inch arms that caused him to go undrafted ? I think it worked out OK for him 4 Quote
Shaw66 Posted May 1 Posted May 1 45 minutes ago, NoName said: Is he really competing against McGovern? Or is he competing against Edwards? All indications are that McGovern is the center and Edwards is the left guard going into camp, and in both cases it's there job to lose. Going into camp, I'd guess that The Bills like McGovern over Edwards, and like that tandem at Center and Guard, better than any tandem with Van Pran-Granger. It's really that tandem that matters. McGovern is probably better at guard than Edwards, so the battle in camp probably is McGovern and Edwards vs. Van Pran-Granger and McGovern. And Jake, Saturday wasn't half bad. For sheer toughness (arm length aside) Torrence, Van Pran-Granger and McGovern suits me just fine. 1 1 Quote
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