Rd 5, Pick 141: C Sedrick Van Pran-Granger

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think Van Pran will win the center spot but the “Plan B” of McGovern at Center and Edwards at LG (which is actually probably the teams plan A so to speak) is not a bad option.

 

I agree.  And I suspect they are loathe to start a rookie center next to a 2nd year LG. 

[billsfan89]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I agree.  And I suspect they are loathe to start a rookie center next to a 2nd year LG. 

I don’t think they would care about playing Van Pran playing next to Torrence coming off a rookie season where he played fairly well and now has a second off-season to work on his game. I think they are more just not wanting to be “forced” to start a rookie and to have options 

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I don’t think they would care about playing Van Pran playing next to Torrence coming off a rookie season where he played fairly well and now has a second off-season to work on his game. I think they are more just not wanting to be “forced” to start a rookie and to have options 

 

I don't know.  That's (still) quite a bit of inexperience, especially considering the center makes the line calls.  And having him start would give them more options.

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I don't know.  That's (still) quite a bit of inexperience, especially considering the center makes the line calls.  And having him start would give them more options.

 

Fair point, but he’s played a lot of Big Time Football, so I’d guess he’ll be “ready” earlier than a lot of other guys with different backgrounds. I look forward to seeing all these new guys. This could be a draft to remember!   😋

 

 

 

…….or why we drink. 🤷‍♂️

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Fair point, but he’s played a lot of Big Time Football, so I’d guess he’ll be “ready” earlier than a lot of other guys with different backgrounds. I look forward to seeing all these new guys. This could be a draft to remember!   😋

 

 

 

…….or why we drink. 🤷‍♂️

I am hoping this ends up being at worst a solid draft that produces 2-3 starters and 2-3 roles players. I cannot see this team that has been a top organization at drafting not getting multiple starters and role players out of these 10 picks 7 of which were in the first 5 rounds. 
 

In the case of Van Pran he’s played a lot of high end college football at the SEC and playoffs winning two national titles. He’s started 44 games and over 2500 snaps all at Center. So if there’s ever a prospect to handle stepping into a pro system asap it’s gotta be someone like him. I feel like he can do it but it’s all on paper right now…

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I don’t think they would care about playing Van Pran playing next to Torrence coming off a rookie season where he played fairly well and now has a second off-season to work on his game. I think they are more just not wanting to be “forced” to start a rookie and to have options 

As I've said multiple times...

 

There is literally next to no chance.. a short-armed , smaller center who struggles with technique .. could beat out a NFL starter... With center experience in college... And is now one of the strongest biggest centers in the league

 

It will be next to impossible to beat him out in 1 year... Maybe next season or the year after 

 

You're not unseating an the NFL veteran who is big for his position year 1... Who is starting quality 

[bearstobills]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

As I've said multiple times...

 

There is literally next to no chance.. a short-armed , smaller center who struggles with technique .. could beat out a NFL starter... With center experience in college... And is now one of the strongest biggest centers in the league

 

It will be next to impossible to beat him out in 1 year... Maybe next season or the year after 

 

You're not unseating an the NFL veteran who is big for his position year 1... Who is starting quality 

You speak as if you are an expert on this matter.  But me thinks you are not.  Training camp will decide. And that hasn't happened yet.

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

As I've said multiple times...

 

There is literally next to no chance.. a short-armed , smaller center who struggles with technique .. could beat out a NFL starter... With center experience in college... And is now one of the strongest biggest centers in the league

 

It will be next to impossible to beat him out in 1 year... Maybe next season or the year after 

 

You're not unseating an the NFL veteran who is big for his position year 1... Who is starting quality 

 

I think that it will be tough for Van Pran-Gran to unseat McGovern.  But if he does...

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I agree.  And I suspect they are loathe to start a rookie center next to a 2nd year LG. 

And then the coaches can complain Josh runs too much. 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

You speak as if you are an expert on this matter.  But me thinks you are not.  Training camp will decide. And that hasn't happened yet.

Well, I don't sit here all day everyday and talk about everything I know about the sport.. but I've been posting here and on the old bbmb for 15 years 

 

And I played division one football... Have coached and scouted 

 

I'm still employed in the game of football.. and I have made plenty of scouting reports for people here that have asked for certain players

 

He's a good football player at that round.. I would not bet on him out playing McGovern.. who has been waiting to be the linchpin of an NFL team

 

 

Edited May 1 by Buffalo716

[bearstobills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well, I don't sit here all day everyday and talk about everything I know about the sport.. but I've been posting here and on the old bbmb for 15 years 

 

And I played division one football... Have coached and scouted 

 

I'm still employed in the game of football.. and I've broken down plenty of schemes and made plenty of scouting reports 

 

He's a good football player at that round.. I would not bet on him out playing McGovern.. who has been waiting to be the linchpin of an NFL team

Good nuanced answer.  It's not the center spot where I took issue with your statement.  It's the left guard spot.  It just may be that Edwards/Collins is such a step down from McGovern that it would be more feasible to keep McGovern at his old spot, and if the rookie shows out, put him at center.  It's not crazy that he would have a Christian Benford type camp.  But I appreciate your football background, and you are most likely on point.  They even told Van Pran that he may be used as a guard.  

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

Good nuanced answer.  It's not the center spot where I took issue with your statement.  It's the left guard spot.  It just may be that Edwards/Collins is such a step down from McGovern that it would be more feasible to keep McGovern at his old spot, and if the rookie shows out, put him at center.  It's not crazy that he would have a Christian Benford type camp.  But I appreciate your football background, and you are most likely on point.  They even told Van Pran that he may be used as a guard.  

That's a very good rebuttal 

 

And that is feasible.. I can see something like that happening 

 

But didn't Edwards start on a super bowl Rams team? Or was that the year before? 

 

Collins started with a pretty good career and has kind of fell short... But him and Edwards are basically getting the same guaranteed money 

 

If neither of them.. fit the actual bill at left guard.. and van pran Granger has been holding his own 

 

Then yes it can make sense to refill the left guard spot.. if vpg is able to play within the scheme fit next to McGovern and Torrence... But I do think a year of seasoning to correct his technique flaws could take him from good to very good

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

34 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

As I've said multiple times...

 

There is literally next to no chance.. a short-armed , smaller center who struggles with technique .. could beat out a NFL starter... With center experience in college... And is now one of the strongest biggest centers in the league

 

It will be next to impossible to beat him out in 1 year... Maybe next season or the year after 

 

You're not unseating an the NFL veteran who is big for his position year 1... Who is starting quality 

I don’t necessarily see it this way. 
 

I would think that there is some risk/benefit analysis to injecting SVPG in at center. Where as you see it through the lense that he is unseating McGovern, could it not also be seen as it allowing him to stay at LG? 
 

I think Kromer and the staff with have to weigh what combination can be most effective. Would Edwards/McGovern be a stronger duo than McGovern/Van Pran-Granger while allowing Edwards to stay as 6th in and primary IOL back up? 
 

A move like this allows for a single change up front, keeping the Dawkins/McGovern duo in tact. With a McGovern move to C, you now have an entirely new combination at LT/LG along with the change to how the guards will mesh with the C 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I don’t necessarily see it this way. 
 

I would think that there is some risk/benefit analysis to injecting SVPG in at center. Where as you see it through the lense that he is unseating McGovern, could it not also be seen as it allowing him to stay at LG? 
 

I think Kromer and the staff with have to weigh what combination can be most effective. Would Edwards/McGovern be a stronger duo than McGovern/Van Pran-Granger while allowing Edwards to stay as 6th in and primary IOL back up? 
 

A move like this allows for a single change up front, keeping the Dawkins/McGovern duo in tact. With a McGovern move to C, you now have an entirely new combination at LT/LG along with the change to how the guards will mesh with the C 

I don't work with the bills so these are things that they're going to have to see themselves 

 

That is feasible 

 

I also think a guy like McGovern has been itching to play center for years.. he may come in and be better than Morse.. it's possible 

 

And you would think you could get a serviceable player out of Edwards/ Collins 

 

If those two arent feasible.. and vpg is playing well... Then that becomes actually likely 

 

I just can't see those two guys who are professional athletes battling for a starting spot.. not give you one good year.. sometimes a fire up your ass is what a pro needs

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I don’t necessarily see it this way. 
 

I would think that there is some risk/benefit analysis to injecting SVPG in at center. Where as you see it through the lense that he is unseating McGovern, could it not also be seen as it allowing him to stay at LG? 
 

I think Kromer and the staff with have to weigh what combination can be most effective. Would Edwards/McGovern be a stronger duo than McGovern/Van Pran-Granger while allowing Edwards to stay as 6th in and primary IOL back up? 
 

A move like this allows for a single change up front, keeping the Dawkins/McGovern duo in tact. With a McGovern move to C, you now have an entirely new combination at LT/LG along with the change to how the guards will mesh with the C 

Agreed. Van Pran is not competitng with McGovern who will be in the starting 5 no matter what. Van Pran is competing with David Edwards/Collins. I would not slee on Edwards. Van Pran would have to look so good in there that they move McGovern back to LG. It’s all about playing the best 5. 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Agreed. Van Pran is not competitng with McGovern who will be in the starting 5 no matter what. Van Pran is competing with David Edwards/Collins. I would not slee on Edwards. Van Pran would have to look so good in there that they move McGovern back to LG. It’s all about playing the best 5. 

 

I disagree with this.  The Bills let Morse and Bates go because their plan was to have McGovern start at center.  Van Pran appears to be strictly a center and as such I think they'll give him a chance to compete with McGovern.  If he proves to be superior, which will be tough but not impossible, they'll start him at center and move McGovern back to LG.  Edwards and Collins will be competing against each other for the LG spot, unless/until Van Pran wins the center spot.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree with this.  The Bills let Morse and Bates go because their plan was to have McGovern start at center.  Van Pran appears to be strictly a center and as such I think they'll give him a chance to compete with McGovern.  If he proves to be superior, which will be tough but not impossible, they'll start him at center and move McGovern back to LG.  Edwards and Collins will be competing against each other for the LG spot, unless/until Van Pran wins the center spot.

I think the point that some folks are making is that they are granting that head-to-head, McGovern will win against SVP, no matter how talented he may be, because professional experience goes a long way, and even though Van Pran was excellent at the collegiate level (I am an UGA fan, he was), it doesn't match the kind of experience McGovern has accrued. The way that SVP is not competing against McGovern is in the holistic synthesis of the best starting five. It may be that McGovern at LG with Van Pran at center is part of the most effective grouping.

 

It is in that way that Van Pran does not have to prove to be superior to McGovern at Center, but as the Center that allows McGovern to play LG. If that contributes to the better Oline, it will happen. And long-term, I say Van Pran will develop into a starting Center for many years.

[GreggTX]

Amazing value for the 5th round. I think he'll be a solid starter fairly soon. Good athlete. I guess this draft was even deeper than I thought in OL.

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I think the point that some folks are making is that they are granting that head-to-head, McGovern will win against SVP, no matter how talented he may be, because professional experience goes a long way, and even though Van Pran was excellent at the collegiate level (I am an UGA fan, he was), it doesn't match the kind of experience McGovern has accrued. The way that SVP is not competing against McGovern is in the holistic synthesis of the best starting five. It may be that McGovern at LG with Van Pran at center is part of the most effective grouping.

 

It is in that way that Van Pran does not have to prove to be superior to McGovern at Center, but as the Center that allows McGovern to play LG. If that contributes to the better Oline, it will happen. And long-term, I say Van Pran will develop into a starting Center for many years.

 

I hear what you're saying, but then I look at the Chiefs in 2021.  They drafted Humphrey in the 2nd round and Trey Smith (RG) in the 5th round and both started from Day 1 despite the Chiefs having just gone to the SB and having an All-World QB they wanted to protect.  I'm sure there was an OL like McGovern who by all accounts should have started over Humphrey, but they took the chance.  And Torrence is a 2nd year RG, not a rookie like Smith.

 

And another thing to consider is that, while McGovern has more professional experience, Van Pran has spent the last 8 years playing only center, and the last 3 years on the premier college football program that finished 1st, 1st and 5th in the nation, often times going up against future NFL players.  McGovern OTOH hasn't played center since his sophomore season in college and 1 game as a junior.

 

Now I agree that Van Pran likely won't win the starting job because I don't see the Bills taking a chance like the Chiefs did.  But you never know.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I think the point that some folks are making is that they are granting that head-to-head, McGovern will win against SVP, no matter how talented he may be, because professional experience goes a long way, and even though Van Pran was excellent at the collegiate level (I am an UGA fan, he was), it doesn't match the kind of experience McGovern has accrued. The way that SVP is not competing against McGovern is in the holistic synthesis of the best starting five. It may be that McGovern at LG with Van Pran at center is part of the most effective grouping.

 

It is in that way that Van Pran does not have to prove to be superior to McGovern at Center, but as the Center that allows McGovern to play LG. If that contributes to the better Oline, it will happen. And long-term, I say Van Pran will develop into a starting Center for many years.

That is certainly possible and that would have to come down to McGovern being a distinct upgrade versus Edwards or Collins