[Vague Title]

[White Linen]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I don't, I know exactly what I am. An amateur. That doesn't mean I can't ever have an opinion that is right over a professional. 

 

The only reason you have an opinion is because the professionals put the information together for you.  If you went at it alone, you'd know exactly what you are.

 

My wife doesn't watch football and would have every chance to win our fantasy league as anyone.  The website gives the next best player available.  If she didn't have that or couldn't buy a magazine, she would draft Knox 1st overall.  That's you.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, White Linen said:

 

The only reason you have an opinion is because the professionals put the information together for you.  If you went at it alone, you'd know exactly what you are.

 

My wife doesn't watch football and would have every chance to win our fantasy league as anyone.  The website gives the next best player available.  If she didn't have that or couldn't buy a magazine, she would draft Knox 1st overall.  That's you.  

 

Yea that isn't me. I'm sorry it isn't. 

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, julian said:

It was about TBD posters and their draft evaluations, but even the Matt Miller’s aren’t questioning dozens of former teammates, coaches, front office personnel and random facility employees to gather as much information as possible to ensure as little risk as possible is taken at each selection.

 

Although I’ll grant someone Like Miller is at least getting some of that information from team sources, the TBD draft guru is not getting the full picture.

 

Anyway, I’m sure you’re convinced if your stance and I respect your opinion. 

One poster (currently) that I’m suggesting is doing the same level of research (minus the 1st hand information part). I’m not speaking from what I think but rather what I know. Is there a difference in information between an NfL team and amateur scouts? Of course. Is the gap as wide as people think? Nowhere near

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

When I was in my 20s and 30s I loved the Draft.  Couldn't get enough content or coverage.   Would get upset about picks, talk about reaches and value picks.

 

In my 40s I take it for what it is.   Teams picking players that they think will fit their programs based on educated guesses.   I don't down people on this board for having opinions, because some of you really understand the game.    Bottom line is somewhere between 60-70% of the guy's taken won't be anything beyond depth.

 

The Draft stopped being fun when the Bills got good.   I am more than happy for that.   It also gives me more reason to trust the guy's involved in their front office.   If you want something fun to do instead of the Draft, the NBA playoffs are a great alternative.

 

 

Go Knicks 🏆

[White Linen]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea that isn't me. I'm sorry it isn't. 

 

You're not using the foundation the professionals built for you?  

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

One poster (currently) that I’m suggesting is doing the same level of research (minus the 1st hand information part). I’m not speaking from what I think but rather what I know. Is there a difference in information between an NfL team and amateur scouts? Of course. Is the gap as wide as people think? Nowhere near

 

Because the gap is even wider than people think.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, White Linen said:

 

You're not using the foundation the professionals built for you?  

 

What do you mean by the foundations the professionals built for me? I know two NFL scouts I speak to occasionally but they don't build my board for me. I watch the tape and do my evaluations myself. 

[White Linen]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What do you mean by the foundations the professionals built for me? I know two NFL scouts I speak to occasionally but they don't build my board for me. I watch the tape and do my evaluations myself. 

 

I read there's over 16,000 players eligible to be drafted. 256 will be selected.  

 

Are you suggesting you build your board from scratch by watching hours of tape on 16,000 players?  Not using any assistance from pre-rankings presenting, say, the top 300 that are truly prospects?

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

You're not using the foundation the professionals built for you?  

 

Because the gap is even wider than people think.

Are you suggesting that NFL teams evaluate 16,000 players 😂??

 

I don’t know if this is still the process but the BLESTO scouts meet in like a month. The teams all share and narrow down the guys to watch in the fall. They narrow the list.

Edited April 27 by Kirby Jackson

[White Linen]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Are you suggesting that NFL teams evaluate 16,000 players 😂??

 

Yes, as a collective and thats how the information gets to Kiper, Gunner, etc.  

 

Are you suggesting that that Gunner is getting this information from his resources, without the baseline built by the pro's? 😯

[blacklabel]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

When I was in my 20s and 30s I loved the Draft.  Couldn't get enough content or coverage.   Would get upset about picks, talk about reaches and value picks.

 

In my 40s I take it for what it is.   Teams picking players that they think will fit their programs based on educated guesses.   I don't down people on this board for having opinions, because some of you really understand the game.    Bottom line is somewhere between 60-70% of the guy's taken won't be anything beyond depth.

 

The Draft stopped being fun when the Bills got good.   I am more than happy for that.   It also gives me more reason to trust the guy's involved in their front office.   If you want something fun to do instead of the Draft, the NBA playoffs are a great alternative.

 

This is where I'm at as well. I still read some reports, check out some highlights or film breakdowns but nowhere near as much as I used to. And I just don't see much point in getting worked up because they didn't take a player I thought they should or did a trade I didn't like. I dunno, it's kinda strange to me how some people really seem to get irritated and angry and make comments insinuating Beane is not a good GM, or nitpicking on value and needs and all that. None of them have a 100% success rate but you'd think that's the expectation some folks have around here. 

 

At the end of the day it's pretty much a crapshoot. It's either gonna work out or not. For me it's just more enjoyable to take it as comes and they've definitely earned the benefit of the doubt at this point. It's all good.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I read there's over 16,000 players eligible to be drafted. 256 will be selected.  

 

Are you suggesting you build your board from scratch by watching hours of tape on 16,000 players?  Not using any assistance from pre-rankings presenting, say, the top 300 that are truly prospects?

 

No of course I don't do that. But I don't have any help from professionals in doing that. I use Draftek (who are not professionals it is a fan run site) to start building my lists (and I like their lists precisely because they don't do evaluations they just do a ranking list - and if you look at them during the season they are normally quite random - so when you look at their list it really doesn't put much in the way of preconceptions in your head) but I also make a note of guys that pop to me when I watch games over the fall and then I watch the senior bowl and shrine game and make a note of guys from that as well that I have't been exposed to before. 

 

It depends what you are calling a professional. I consider a professional to be someone who is paid to scout college prospects. If you consider everyone who runs a draft website to be a professional well that's kind of different. But they are not professionals. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Yes, as a collective and thats how the information gets to Kiper, Gunner, etc.  

 

Are you suggesting that that Gunner is getting this information from his resources, without the baseline built by the pro's? 😯

No, I guess that I didn’t think that needed to be said. Draft evaluators use a top 500 or whatever to go through. That’s established through collective scouting. 

[julian]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

One poster (currently) that I’m suggesting is doing the same level of research (minus the 1st hand information part). I’m not speaking from what I think but rather what I know. Is there a difference in information between an NfL team and amateur scouts? Of course. Is the gap as wide as people think? Nowhere near

Ok

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

you don’t have access to medicals or interviews. It’s not so much being wrong as not having all the info.

 

There's much more to it than that as to why fans are wrong on many picks.  Even with access to medicals and interviews, teams also are wrong on picks.   Success in the draft demands a lot of serious investigation, good instincts about people, and some luck.   Draft prospects are not robots, which makes picking A over B a whole more complicated than totaling up Combine performance, YouTube highlight videos, medical reports, interviews, etc.   The people evaluating prospects aren't robots either. 

Edited April 27 by SoTier

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im absolving GM's from criticism at all, and that criticism is what comes later when you know what players are or aren't after stepping on the NFL field and showing who they are.  

 

I am saying on draft night, these people who have done NONE of the research, no less than 1% what the GM's know and have on these players right now that run around literally coming unhinged on draft night because a guy they "know" wasn't drafted over a guy the "didn't know" is absurd.  And citing the one time out of a hundred they guessed right on a past decision using hindsight is 20/20 is even dumber.  

 

Its fine to have favorites, its fine to not know who guys are.  But instead of melting down because it wasn't who they expected, maybe go look into that player and see why he was the pick and the kind of player he is instead of starting threads to fire Beane or melting down and whining in every thread because the Bills didn't take a guy a WR at 33 who is actually still on the board in the 4th.  

 

 

Coleman will be a WR1 for us.  What people are not realizing is we are not trying to "replace" Diggs and Gabe, we are building a different style offense all together for what Joe Brady wants to do.  We are in now way are trying to get Davis 2.0 and Diggs 2.0 and their focus now is clear about that and Beane has said as much.  

 

Awesome post!

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

No, I guess that I didn’t think that needed to be said. Draft evaluators use a top 500 or whatever to go through. That’s established through collective scouting. 

 

And I didn't think I'd have to address a question like, do I think each team watches 16,000 players individually.

 

So we agree, professionals create the base for amateurs to pretend they are equal to them.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

And I didn't think I'd have to address a question like, do I think each team watches 16,000 players individually.

 

So we agree, professionals create the base for amateurs to pretend they are equal to them.

No, we don’t agree that “professionals create the base for amateurs to pretend that they are equal to them.” We agree that, “professionals divide and conquer the intial list so that each team isn’t trying to figure out who to scout. In the process that universe of players then get scouted in much greater detail by professionals, amateurs and analysts alike.” 

[RyanC883]

only taking 1 WR is an even bigger fail than Coleman in Rd1. 

[stuvian]

Shakir has been voted the NFLs fastest man without leaving his couch 

[Alphadawg7]

20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

One poster (currently) that I’m suggesting is doing the same level of research (minus the 1st hand information part). I’m not speaking from what I think but rather what I know. Is there a difference in information between an NfL team and amateur scouts? Of course. Is the gap as wide as people think? Nowhere near

Actually the gap is quite wide in skill, time invested, knowledge, and information between professional scouts and fan evaluations.  
 

I know some scouts and I can tell you it’s not close to what they have on these guys and the time they put in.