Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

[GASabresIUFan]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Over-emphasized is how I would put it.    The Bills have created this scenario where the guy is basically REPLACING Diggs in the eyes of fans and media this year.   Now if they acquire a WR1 after June 1 I think Coleman then becomes a standard day 2 draft pick with lot's of room to breathe/develop.   Which he needs because he is raw, IMO.   Hard for fans to replace something as important to them as Diggs with nothing though.   

Again, Coleman isn’t replacing Diggs.  He is a completely different kind of player.  Coleman is replacing Davis.  Samuel or Shakir will be replacing Diggs.  
 

Davis 6’2” 225

Coleman 6’3” 213

 

Diggs 6’0“ 191

Shakir 6’0” 190

Samuel 5’11” 195 

 

Samuel or Shakir on the outside is going to be one of the big questions in camp.  Shakir is know as an excellent route runner both inside and out.  Both guys have experience outside experience.  Shakir’s outside experience was primarily in college.  Samuel’s does have outside NFL experience but it’s about 26% of his snaps.  Samuel’s better speed might ultimately be the deciding factor.

 

Edited May 11 by GASabresIUFan

[Ralonzo]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:19 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

I think there is something to this.  When you watch his highlights, he runs decent routes but he definitely seems to drift towards contact for some reason - like he seems to bend the route toward the defender a bit.  Like he needs to feel the defendant first before he can leverage himself away from his man.

 

He's going to have to play against KC, so...

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MiracleAtRich1393 said:

He also had Jordy Nelson & Cobb in front of him. I think he'll be a lot more like Rashee Rice's rookie year (slowly increase workload, end up with 800+ yards) than Davante's.

 

ON THE FIELD I MEAN. ON THE FIELD 

 

If the Bills were to use Coleman as a big slot like KC did with Rashee Rice then I could see that.

 

But that doesn't appear to be their plan.   Beane said Coleman will be used outside (X) which is the much more difficult path.

 

You mentioned Cobb......the Packers weren't going to give Adams those easy-button routes because those belonged to Cobb.   So they had to patiently wait for Adams to round into form as a technician outside.  

 

What I do expect......if the Bills WR corps remains as currently constituted........is more condensed formations to help Coleman get open easier.   

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Again, Coleman isn’t replacing Diggs.  He is a completely different kind of player.  Coleman is replacing Davis.  Samuel or Shakir will be replacing Diggs.  
 

Davis 6’2” 225

Coleman 6’3” 213

 

Diggs 6’0“ 191

Shakir 6’0” 190

Samuel 5’11” 195 

 

Samuel or Shakir on the outside is going to be one of the big questions in camp.  Samuel’s better speed might ultimately be the deciding factor.  Shakir is know as an excellent route runner both inside and out.  Both guys have experience outside experience.  Shakir’s outside experience was primarily in college.  Samuel’s does have outside NFL experience but it’s about 26% of his snaps.  
 

 

 

 

The problem with that argument is that it doesn't satisfy the perceived need to replace Diggs.   You are complaining about the attention/scrutiny of Coleman but that's why.    If there were a perceived better answer to Diggs they'd not be fixated on Coleman.    

 

And the reality is that it's not as cut and dried as you are perceiving it either.   Why would that work?   You don't replace difference makers with volume.  

 

It's a matchup league.

 

Can you win IN SPITE of failing to replace production in the passing game?   Yes.   The Chiefs decided to ride or die with their investments in Rice/Toney/Moore in 2023 instead of adding a veteran like DeAndre Hopkins to their WR corps...........and their scoring output subsequently fell by a whopping 125 points from 2022 and Patrick Mahomes had by far his worst statistical season as a pro.

 

But they eventually won the SB.  

 

So one can argue that it might not matter in terms of whether the team wins the SB or not.......but you are as likely to replace the output of a guy like Diggs with a receiving corps where nobody on it has ever even put up a 900 yard season in the NFL as Gregg Williams was likely to be able to "stop the run with numbers" after Donahoe jettisoned Ted Washington.

 

Keon Coleman didn't even put up 900 yards in a season in college.   We can discount Diggs production all we want because we didn't like his attitude........but it's not going to be easy to replace that.  

 

 

Edited May 11 by BADOLBILZ

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If the Bills were to use Coleman as a big slot like KC did with Rashee Rice then I could see that.

 

But that doesn't appear to be their plan.   Beane said Coleman will be used outside (X) which is the much more difficult path.

 

You mentioned Cobb......the Packers weren't going to give Adams those easy-button routes because those belonged to Cobb.   So they had to patiently wait for Adams to round into form as a technician outside.  

 

What I do expect......if the Bills WR corps remains as currently constituted........is more condensed formations to help Coleman get open easier.   

 

 

They love this for the ground game anyways. I expect it regardless 

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The problem with that argument is that it doesn't satisfy the perceived need to replace Diggs.   You are complaining about the attention/scrutiny of Coleman but that's why.    If there were a perceived better answer to Diggs they'd not be fixated on Coleman.    

 

And the reality is that it's not as cut and dried as you are perceiving it either.   Why would that work?   You don't replace difference makers with volume.  

 

It's a matchup league.

 

Can you win IN SPITE of failing to replace production in the passing game?   Yes.   The Chiefs decided to ride or die with their investments in Rice/Toney/Moore in 2023 instead of adding a veteran like DeAndre Hopkins to their WR corps...........and their scoring output subsequently fell by a whopping 125 points from 2022 and Patrick Mahomes had by far his worst statistical season as a pro.

 

But they eventually won the SB.  

 

So one can argue that it might not matter in terms of whether the team wins the SB or not.......but you are as likely to replace the output of a guy like Diggs with a receiving corps where nobody on it has ever even put up a 900 yard season in the NFL as Gregg Williams was likely to be able to "stop the run with numbers" after Donahoe jettisoned Ted Washington.

 

Keon Coleman didn't even put up 900 yards in a season in college.   We can discount Diggs production all we want because we didn't like his attitude........but it's not going to be easy to replace that.  

 

 

You are on the right track.  Beane’s goal is not to replace the ball hogging Diggs, but to make up his production in the aggregate with 4 more or less equal targets in Samuel, Shakir, Kincaid and Coleman.  Instead of having one 1200 yard receivers, he’ll field an armada for 4  guys all capable of 900-1000 yards.  
 

We may have a different receiving leader each week, because the game plan will be designed to exploit the weaknesses in opposing defenses.  If the team can’t stop the run, they’ll receive a steady diet of Cook and Davis.  If they can’t cover the slot, they’ll receive a steady diet of Kincaid and Shakir.  If they can’t cover the outside, Coleman and Samuel will be the weapons.  The goal is to make the Bills’ offense a matchup nightmare for DCs. 

[Dr. Who]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

You are on the right track.  Beane’s goal is not to replace the ball hogging Diggs, but to make up his production in the aggregate with 4 more or less equal targets in Samuel, Shakir, Kincaid and Coleman.  Instead of having one 1200 yard receivers, he’ll field an armada for 4  guys all capable of 900-1000 yards.  
 

We may have a different receiving leader each week, because the game plan will be designed to exploit the weaknesses in opposing defenses.  If the team can’t stop the run, they’ll receive a steady diet of Cook and Davis.  If they can’t cover the slot, they’ll receive a steady diet of Kincaid and Shakir.  If they can’t cover the outside, Coleman and Samuel will be the weapons.  The goal is to make the Bills’ offense a matchup nightmare for DCs. 

The plan is intriguing, but it only works if all the parts are reasonably dangerous. I'd feel better if they added an established WR of the caliber of DK Metcalf. @BADOLBILZ suggested as much, and it seems an excellent idea to me. I think, but I may be misremembering, that you are one of those who cautions that there isn't money for that. I think after 6/1, they could find a way to manage it.

[GASabresIUFan]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The plan is intriguing, but it only works if all the parts are reasonably dangerous. I'd feel better if they added an established WR of the caliber of DK Metcalf. @BADOLBILZ suggested as much, and it seems an excellent idea to me. I think, but I may be misremembering, that you are one of those who cautions that there isn't money for that. I think after 6/1, they could find a way to manage it.

Beane has already said that money isn’t going to a WR.  I think he said in a recent interview that the June 1 money is going to used to sign the rookies and for operating cap space.  I think what he means by that is having cap room to add someone like Douglas in case of injury during the season.  
 

I’m pretty bullish on the plan.  I watched the Packers 4 1st and 2nd year receivers and 2 1st and 2nd years TEs put on a show last season and the Bills group of Kincaid, Knox, Coleman, Samuel, and Shakir are at least if not more talented.  If one of Claypool, Cephus or Hamler can beat out Hollins for the 4th WR job all the better.
 

 

[Big Blitz]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Keon Coleman didn't even put up 900 yards in a season in college.  

 

 

 

Neither did Diggs.  

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

You are on the right track.  Beane’s goal is not to replace the ball hogging Diggs, but to make up his production in the aggregate with 4 more or less equal targets in Samuel, Shakir, Kincaid and Coleman.  Instead of having one 1200 yard receivers, he’ll field an armada for 4  guys all capable of 900-1000 yards.  
 

We may have a different receiving leader each week, because the game plan will be designed to exploit the weaknesses in opposing defenses.  If the team can’t stop the run, they’ll receive a steady diet of Cook and Davis.  If they can’t cover the slot, they’ll receive a steady diet of Kincaid and Shakir.  If they can’t cover the outside, Coleman and Samuel will be the weapons.  The goal is to make the Bills’ offense a matchup nightmare for DCs. 

 

 

"In aggregate" is literally just a re-phrasing of "with numbers".

 

Teams that are matchup nightmares have players who can't be neutralized by a single defender.    They require extra attention.  

 

Like Ted Washington serving as a one man run defense and creating one-on-one's for other Bills defenders.    When they cut him, the aggregate were no match at all for opposing running games.

 

Who do the Bills have in their WR corps that commands that extra attention?    What they have right now are a bunch of career complementary WR along with a raw  rookie in Coleman.  

  

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Neither did Diggs.  

 

 

And being a 5th round pick,  unburdened by expectations,  he was able to learn on the job and eventually became a 1,000 yard receiver in the NFL for the first time in year 4.

 

 

[GASabresIUFan]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

"In aggregate" is literally just a re-phrasing of "with numbers".

 

Teams that are matchup nightmares have players who can't be neutralized by a single defender.    They require extra attention.  

 

Like Ted Washington serving as a one man run defense and creating one-on-one's for other Bills defenders.    When they cut him, the aggregate were no match at all for opposing running games.

 

Who do the Bills have in their WR corps that commands that extra attention?    What they have right now are a bunch of career complementary WR along with a raw  rookie in Coleman.  

  

Your Ted Washington analogy doesn’t work with a WR group that has 2-4 players spread across the field on every play.  Neither does your comment that our receivers are career complimentary players.  Samuel is a career starter.  Shakir is a 3rd year player who was finally moved into the game plan until week 7 and will be a 1st year full time starter. Once Shakir got into the lineup he became a serious weapon with 600+ yards on only 45 targets (with 17 explosive plays).  This is 850 yards pace in a full season.  Kincaid, once he was fully inserted also in week 7, also paced at around 850 yards.  Considering their youth to pigeon hole them as “complimentary” players is extremely premature. Kincaid is on his way to being our Kelce.  Last I looked Kelce was a player that demanded “extra attention.”   
 

 

Edited May 12 by GASabresIUFan

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Beane has already said that money isn’t going to a WR.  I think he said in a recent interview that the June 1 money is going to used to sign the rookies and for operating cap space.  I think what he means by that is having cap room to add someone like Douglas in case of injury during the season.  
 

I’m pretty bullish on the plan.  I watched the Packers 4 1st and 2nd year receivers and 2 1st and 2nd years TEs put on a show last season and the Bills group of Kincaid, Knox, Coleman, Samuel, and Shakir are at least if not more talented.  If one of Claypool, Cephus or Hamler can beat out Hollins for the 4th WR job all the better.
 

 

I understand. Maybe that is so, or perhaps Beane is a sly dog, and has another plan he isn't saying. It might be boring literalism. I'm still hoping he's playing poker, because I don't like the WR room, even though I am high on Kincaid, and was one of the few on this board who championed him well before the draft. There were like 3 of us, we lit metaphorical cigars afterwards to celebrate our success. I tried the same thing this year hoping to get McConkey drafted, but I guess it was a one-time magic. I saw your latest response to Badol. Fantastic if you are correct. Seems overly optimistic to me.

[K D]

Anyone see how fast the Texas receivers look at mini camp (Mitchell and Worthy)? Mitchell looks like an absolute steal. Pats doubled up at WR with Polk and Baker. Coleman wears discount yellow bubble jacket is the only headline I've seen so far out of Buffalo but we'll see.

 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Again, Coleman isn’t replacing Diggs.  He is a completely different kind of player.  Coleman is replacing Davis.  Samuel or Shakir will be replacing Diggs.  
 

Davis 6’2” 225

Coleman 6’3” 213

 

Diggs 6’0“ 191

Shakir 6’0” 190

Samuel 5’11” 195 

 

Samuel or Shakir on the outside is going to be one of the big questions in camp.  Shakir is know as an excellent route runner both inside and out.  Both guys have experience outside experience.  Shakir’s outside experience was primarily in college.  Samuel’s does have outside NFL experience but it’s about 26% of his snaps.  Samuel’s better speed might ultimately be the deciding factor.

 

What does Coleman have in common with Davis outside of being bigger than average? I don’t see anything else. 

[K D]

5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

What does Coleman have in common with Davis outside of being bigger than average? I don’t see anything else. 

40

[Warcodered]

27 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Anyone see how fast the Texas receivers look at mini camp (Mitchell and Worthy)? Mitchell looks like an absolute steal. Pats doubled up at WR with Polk and Baker. Coleman wears discount yellow bubble jacket is the only headline I've seen so far out of Buffalo but we'll see.

 

 

 

I see your problem you're watching the Colts Twitter feed instead of the Bills, easy mistake to make.

[Royale with Cheese]

“Absolute steal” after watching a short video of rookie camp?  A camp in shorts and no pass rush? Did I just read that?

Edited May 12 by Royale with Cheese

[oldmanfan]

The kid is psyched to play with Josh, and has his own skill set.  He doesn’t have to be Diggs or Davis.  How about just being Coleman and see how that works?

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

What does Coleman have in common with Davis outside of being bigger than average? I don’t see anything else. 

They are bigger bodied WR that use their size as leverage to get the ball instead of speed and separation.  

They both hit their peak speed at 30 yards as opposed to 20 yards like your faster guys.  I don’t know Colemans 60 yard time but I would bet he would have a good time there.