Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:20 PM, gonzo1105 said:

None of you know ***** about the guy. I remember when everyone ***** all over Josh Allen as well. I hope he proves everyone wrong here 

Couldn’t agree more.  First, I think Coleman could have a bigger season than probably at least 3 or 4 of the WRs taken ahead of him.  
 

Second, you can tell the vast majority complaining about him literally know nothing about him and are making up assumptions over what they perceive his combine 40 time means.  And they also ignore that his 40 time was much better at his pro day and that he showed it wasn’t a fluke as he also has the fastest gauntlet of anyone at the combine which is a much bigger indicator of in game speed.  
 

And quite frankly if anyone associates 40 times with mainly how WRs get separation then they don’t really understand how WRs get separation.  Ask any coach, GM, or scout and they will tell you as a stand alone stat the 40 times are the most overrated stat of the combine and overly fixated on by the media and fans.  It’s small part of a much larger picture.

Edited April 29 by Alphadawg7

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Diggs last 9 REGULAR SEASON game totals

42-457-2 (4 grabs for 50 yards/game)

 

Davis last 7 REGULAR SEASON game totals (2 DNP)

15 - 310 - 2 ( 2 grabs for 44 yards/game)

 

Samuel and Coleman should undoubtedly be able to fill those shoes, and then some. 
 

Take a step back off the ledge. 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Diggs last 9 REGULAR SEASON game totals

42-457-2 (4 grabs for 50 yards/game)

 

Davis last 7 REGULAR SEASON game totals (2 DNP)

15 - 310 - 2 ( 2 grabs for 44 yards/game)

 

Samuel and Coleman should undoubtedly be able to fill those shoes, and then some. 
 

Take a step back off the ledge. 

Yes, let's use the abysmal performance of the WR room the second half of last year as the low bar threshold by which to measure what will be considered acceptable performance or not this year. The offense struggled. Maybe it won't with Brady and the new players, but I'm not all that confident about it. Kincaid is going to have to be the main target, I think, so I hope he has a leap and not a sophomore slump year.

[QCity]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Second, you can tell the vast majority complaining about him literally know nothing about him

 

Couldn't the same be said about the people cheering him on? 

 

I can guarantee you one thing, if we would have drafted a burner like Worthy there wouldn't be people claiming 40 times don't matter.

[Maine-iac]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Cooper Kupp was a solid WR for years and then exploded as a triple crown winner with Stafford at QB. Then he battled some injuries and they brought in Nakua and he did great. 
 

thats a far different situation than adding Coleman and Samuel to Shakir. 
 

KC’s offense has been fine because Mahomes is great, but their offense is far less potent since trading Hill. Conversely, Miami’s offense exploded after adding Hill to pair with Waddle.

 

It’s the talent. And we don’t have much proof we have it. Which was the point. 

Miami's exploded offense and KC's far less potent offense still equals a KC SB win.  I'm not saying we couldn't use a Tyreek Hill but I'm also not afraid of running the ball with Cook and throwing it to Kincaid 120 times and working in the WR's.  Teams were playing shell defenses on us all day.  Short stuff was easy money it's about time we built a team that takes it.  They play us tighter Shakir, Samuels, and Cook can all run by someone with the right match ups.  I'd actually take the Wr's we have over the ones that played against the Chiefs (given Diggs had a horrible game anyway) and we should have had 27 points on the Chiefs.  More if Diggs or Sheffield could catch.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, let's use the abysmal performance of the WR room the second half of last year as the low bar threshold by which to measure what will be considered acceptable performance or not this year. The offense struggled. Maybe it won't with Brady and the new players, but I'm not all that confident about it. Kincaid is going to have to be the main target, I think, so I hope he has a leap and not a sophomore slump year.

Who said it was acceptable? I said there is no doubt they can do better. The way I see things, the shift in philosophy to Brady lead to a much quicker passing game designed to attack horizontally and gain YAC. There is a reason they brought in guys like Samuel and Coleman. Stef Diggs catching a bubble screen for 3 yards ain’t cutting it. 
 

My point in bringing up the old stats: They went 6-3 over that stretch, including the OT loss to the Eagles and the 12 men on the field botched Broncos L. 

[Maine-iac]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, let's use the abysmal performance of the WR room the second half of last year as the low bar threshold by which to measure what will be considered acceptable performance or not this year. The offense struggled. Maybe it won't with Brady and the new players, but I'm not all that confident about it. Kincaid is going to have to be the main target, I think, so I hope he has a leap and not a sophomore slump year.

I mean they did average 27 points over the last 7 games.  Our best receivers over that stretch will be back.  Our best receivers from the playoffs will be back and we averaged 28 points in the playoffs.  I hate to be the one with all the optimism but it doesn't all have to be gloom and doom.  Maybe you don't take one of our WR's for your fantasy team but that doesn't mean we can't win.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Heitz said:

 

The kid seems to have the right attitude. Loved his presser too. 🤣

 

I think it'll all be in how they use him - without the speed, how do you scheme him up to highpoint some balls on the sidelines? Which, BTW seems like like an Allen special, after breaking contain. 💨

 

It'll definitely be interesting to see what happens when the games start. How DOES this kid work out despite all of the opinions? Let's hope he and Josh get together, get that relationship going, start getting work in - I'm rooting for him!  

Yeah, that's my thing. I don't believe he's going to be asked to run straight line deep routes very much. So how does Brady use him and what can they do to incorporate what he does do well. Out routes? Hook routes? I think he's going to feast in that 11-20 yard range...and I don't think anyone is going to out hustle or out work him to the ball. 

 

That was always a big complaint I had with Gabe Davis. Seemed like far too often when a DB got position on him to make a play on the ball Gabe was a bit passive. Resulted it a fairly high INT% when targeted. I don't see that problem with Coleman. 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Who said it was acceptable? I said there is no doubt they can do better. The way I see things, the shift in philosophy to Brady lead to a much quicker passing game designed to attack horizontally and gain YAC. There is a reason they brought in guys like Samuel and Coleman. Stef Diggs catching a bubble screen for 3 yards ain’t cutting it. 
 

My point in bringing up the old stats: They went 6-3 over that stretch, including the OT loss to the Eagles and the 12 men on the field botched Broncos L. 

Okay. I'm not one of those predicting a doomed season. I still think we should be favored to win the division.

I'll be surprised if they make a SB run, but it isn't impossible.

[NoSaint]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Couldn’t agree more.  First, I think Coleman could have a bigger season than probably m at least 3 or 4 of the WRs taken ahead of him.  
 

Second, you can tell the vast majority complaining about him literally know nothing about him and are making up assumptions over what they perceive his combine 40 time means.  And they also ignore that his 40 time was much better at his pro day and that he showed it wasn’t a fluke as he also has the fastest gauntlet of anyone at the combine which is a much bigger indicator of in game speed.  
 

And quite frankly if anyone associates 40 times with mainly how WRs get separation then they don’t really understand how WRs get separation.  Ask any coach, GM, or scout and they will tell you as a stand alone stat the 40 times are the most overrated stat of the combine and overly fixated on by the media and fans.  It’s small part of a much larger picture.

then why doesn’t he get separation, alpha? 

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yeah, that's my thing. I don't believe he's going to be asked to run straight line deep routes very much. So how does Brady use him and what can they do to incorporate what he does do well. Out routes? Hook routes? I think he's going to feast in that 11-20 yard range...and I don't think anyone is going to out hustle or out work him to the ball. 

 

That was always a big complaint I had with Gabe Davis. Seemed like far too often when a DB got position on him to make a play on the ball Gabe was a bit passive. Resulted it a fairly high INT% when targeted. I don't see that problem with Coleman. 

Those damn routes Mike Evans runs where he cuts in then up the field and back out (can't remember what they call them).  A big WR with good hands and a good first 10 yards can probably make money on that.

[Dr. Who]

18 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

I mean they did average 27 points over the last 7 games.  Our best receivers over that stretch will be back.  Our best receivers from the playoffs will be back and we averaged 28 points in the playoffs.  I hate to be the one with all the optimism but it doesn't all have to be gloom and doom.  Maybe you don't take one of our WR's for your fantasy team but that doesn't mean we can't win.

My disappointment with the WR room does not indicate radical pessimism with regard to the team. I still expect to win the division, though I'm not presuming such. I don't at all engage in fantasy football. I don't care about stats so much as wins, but I'd rather roll teams than play close games. I'm getting too old for the stress.

Edited April 29 by Dr. Who

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yeah, that's my thing. I don't believe he's going to be asked to run straight line deep routes very much. So how does Brady use him and what can they do to incorporate what he does do well. Out routes? Hook routes? I think he's going to feast in that 11-20 yard range...and I don't think anyone is going to out hustle or out work him to the ball. 

 

That was always a big complaint I had with Gabe Davis. Seemed like far too often when a DB got position on him to make a play on the ball Gabe was a bit passive. Resulted it a fairly high INT% when targeted. I don't see that problem with Coleman. 

I don’t think he will be targeted 40 yards downfield a ton but I do think he will be asked to run plenty of crossers, etc… in addition to those deep routes. 
 

I also hope occasionally he will catch the ball short and be asked to run a long distance 

18 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, let's use the abysmal performance of the WR room the second half of last year as the low bar threshold by which to measure what will be considered acceptable performance or not this year. The offense struggled. Maybe it won't with Brady and the new players, but I'm not all that confident about it. Kincaid is going to have to be the main target, I think, so I hope he has a leap and not a sophomore slump year.

Yea- I think a lot of people are forgetting how much Josh had to do down the stretch. We really need a big step forward, not just breaking even 

[Maine-iac]

 

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

As I just remarked in another thread, my disappointment with the WR room does not indicate radical pessimism with regard to the team. I still expect to win the division, though I'm not presuming such. I don't see a likely SB run, but I wouldn't say impossible. I don't at all engage in fantasy football. I don't care about stats so much as wins, but I'd rather roll teams than play close games. I'm getting too old for the stress.

If the defense would show up but that's another can of worms ..................

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

I don’t think he will be targeted 40 yards downfield a ton but I do think he will be asked to run plenty of crossers, etc… in addition to those deep routes. 
 

I also hope occasionally he will catch the ball short and be asked to run a long distance 

Yeah, he's got some YAC ability. And he looks to be tough to bring down in the open field. Pretty intense guy that stays on his feet for extra yards...doesn't slide down in front of tacklers.

 

He and Allen are going to feed off each others energy on the field. Looking forward to see what he does 

[Maine-iac]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I don’t think he will be targeted 40 yards downfield a ton but I do think he will be asked to run plenty of crossers, etc… in addition to those deep routes. 
 

I also hope occasionally he will catch the ball short and be asked to run a long distance 

Just make him watch AJ Brown and Deebo tape all day.

[MasterStrategist]

8 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Couldn't the same be said about the people cheering him on? 

 

I can guarantee you one thing, if we would have drafted a burner like Worthy there wouldn't be people claiming 40 times don't matter.

In all honesty, unless a fan is watching every single down/snap these players took and dissecting how they were used/responsibilities, did they execute their role appropriately, etc...then no one should act like they know more than others.

 

It's great to "speculate" but at the end of day, even the most hard-core fans don't spend countless hours on even 1 player (let alone 10-50 at a given position).  Instead fans who are so "outspoken", rely on the Mel Kipers of the world or latest/greatest metrics or combine OR the best, looking at YouTube highlights and acting like that's gamefilm.

 

Even if someone did do all their possible film review, that's typically 50-60% of the story.  Player interviews, top 30 visits, talking with teammates, talking with prior coaches, etc...that plays a huge factor.  

 

Sometimes posters have a "connection" be it with the team, scout/otherwise, and regurgitate what they're being told.  More knowledgeable sure, still not guaranteed to be 100% accurate.

 

I don't mind either side, criticism or faith.  Lots of times, this is more of a reflection of the posters personality or overall belief in team leadership morphed into over analyzing each move.  

 

What gets annoying is the "over the top" bravado, or high opinionated folks that think there crap doesn't stink/can't ever be wrong or even willing to admit it.  

 

Yes it's a message board, express an opinion to your hearts content, just realize what your attaching your opinion to...is it that YouTube highlight reel/favorite mock draft source OR did you actually review player tape to a signicant level to make an opinion?

 

Sorry I quoted you, but easily could have quoted anyone on here.  Best we can do is hope Beane/staff made the best decisions.

[NoSaint]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yeah, he's got some YAC ability. And he looks to be tough to bring down in the open field. Pretty intense guy that stays on his feet for extra yards...doesn't slide down in front of tacklers.

 

He and Allen are going to feed off each others energy on the field. Looking forward to see what he does 

but that said, after breaking the tackle he may be asked to run numerous yards in a straight line- 

 

or a horizontal play could have him running many yards across the field. My point was it’s not just go routes where you see that speed 

 

breaking a tackle can make up for it though, as you note

[LabattBlue]

56 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Diggs last 9 REGULAR SEASON game totals

42-457-2 (4 grabs for 50 yards/game)

 

Davis last 7 REGULAR SEASON game totals (2 DNP)

15 - 310 - 2 ( 2 grabs for 44 yards/game)

 

Samuel and Coleman should undoubtedly be able to fill those shoes, and then some. 
 

Take a step back off the ledge. 

No matter how much Diggs stats decreased, he still had to be a focus of the defense.   That is now gone. 

[Sierra Foothills]

9 hours ago, Rockinon said:

I think the Bills the overall philosophy changed after the playoff loss to Cincy a couple years ago. The Bills were bullied in that game and that did not go over well. It is looking to me like the Bills are looking to become the bully. From the beefing up in the trenches to the skill position players. They know they have a great QB but clearly they also intend to run the ball. The entire way they are building this team is to get back to some smash mouth football.

 

My belief as well, as I've posted elsewhere.

 

6 hours ago, Bruce200 said:

It’s going to look bad if Xavier Worthy ends up as the next Tyreek Hiil and runs wild for 50 and 60 yard touchdowns and Coleman ends up being covered like a blanket. We’ll find out pretty soon. I hope for the Bills sake we didn’t miss out on a great receiver. I’m having a hard time believing the Chiefs don’t know what they’re doing.

 

 

On the other hand the Chiefs traded a 3rd and a 6th for Kadarius Toney.

 

3 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Brett Whitefield's take on the KC pick.  He had XW as his #13 WR.  He is quite down on him. 

 

28) Kansas City Chiefs: Xavier Worthy, WR, Texas = F

Who fleeced who? Buffalo gladly allows the Chiefs to get Worthy. This pick ranked dead last in the Whitefield/Wecht Value Model. I don't know why the Chiefs were hell-bent on doing the Mecole Hardman experience all over again, but here we are. The Chiefs' recent track record of WR acquisitions also doesn’t give me a ton of confidence in this pick.

 

In spite of having watched NFL football for over 5 decades, I can't predict the future but I have no problem waiting to see how this all plays out.

 

I believe Coleman will justify his draft position and that Beane will be vindicated but we'll know soon enough.