Rumor: Bills trying aggressively to move up for a WR in round one

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

What’s your plan to improve the pass rush ? This draft is very skinny at edge  after the Top 3 who will be long gone at 28
 

It's literally the worst position group in the draft, so let's go there. You actually might get a difference maker WR at 28, though.

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, stuvian said:

without going full math geek we've lost two starters in the secondary who were on the back half of their careers. Our back 7 tackling was pretty abysmal all year. I think having DBs and LBs who can make stops can force some 3 and outs in key games.

Save for unearthing a Maxx Crosby like gem I don't see us finding a pass rusher unless we trade up. Maybe Rousseau will blossom but we can't rely on that materializing.

We found out the hard way that Miller needs a Chubb. he's ineffective by himself. I'd rather have a platoon of 9 sack guys we can rotate on fresh legs than one guy who can get 20 sacks but gets double teamed. 

Does not having an all star DE make McD a better play caller, too? I like when he's manufacturing pressure with well-timed blitzes rather than relying on his front 4.

[CaptnCoke11]

Aggressively trying to trade up a few spots for Worthy!  I did it 

[Aussie Joe]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

It's literally the worst position group in the draft, so let's go there. You actually might get a difference maker WR at 28, though.

I have said before that Edge is the Bills biggest need if they  have any doubts over Miller improving … What’s left otherwise ? Realistically it’s Rousseau and AJE in a high rotation scheme 

 

Problem is draft wise ,,, I only like the Top 3 guys .,and obviously one of them has a medical concern which might rule him out in the first …

 

Beane gunna have to work some magic …

Edited April 25 by Aussie Joe

[thenorthremembers]

Its going to take three 1sts or two 1sts and two seconds to get up to where the best wideouts are at in this draft.  Once Harrison, Nabers, and Odunze are gone you may as well stay put or move back.   

[HappyDays]

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The commonly used phrase is "It's a copy cat league."   It is, and there's a reason for that.  The reason is it's very hard to win in the league, and it's very hard to be good at offense, because the good defenses know how to stop all but the best offenses.  It's natural, therefore, that teams will try to mimic what the good teams are doing. 

 

I would love to mimic what those teams have done but that is going to come from a coaching change, not from intentionally diluting our talent. I know you like McDermott more than I do but even you have to admit we have seen enough of his career to know that he isn't an elite coach. I don't trust him to ever put on a defensive coaching masterclass like Steve Spagnuolo just did in the AFCCG and Super Bowl. Our offense is never going to be as creative and meticulously designed as Kyle Shanahan's under McDermott's leadership. Those are pie in the sky outcomes at this point. The only way we are going to beat teams with that caliber of coaching is by simply overwhelming them with top tier talent.

 

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I keep saying that the signal was that the Bills went after Samuel.  He's one of the best players in the league playing the style that the good offenses have (other than the very best, who are on those good teams we're talking about). Getting Samuel when they already had Shakir and Kincaid tells something about what the Bills intend to do. 

 

Beane has described Curtis Samuel as a "weapon" not as a WR. He is the plus-plus version of what we tried to get for cheap with McKenzie and Harty. I don't think his signing tells me anything about what the Bills want to do. They have wanted that gadget player since Daboll was here, and Beane finally just threw his hands up and paid a mid-sized contract to get a good one once and for all.

 

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The Bills can't get a top-tier receiver without spending an enormous amount of draft capital, but even if they could, top-tier talent won't save mediocre coaching. 

 

I don't agree we need to spend an enormous amount of draft capital. Keeping to the topic of this thread, I am not one who is banging the drum to trade way way up the board for Harrison or Nabers. If Odunze makes it to 9 that's where my appetite for trading up begins, and even then I would not want to give up this year's 2nd. My preferred strategy is trade down, draft a WR with our first pick, then trade up in the 2nd round to draft another WR. I would double dip from this incredibly deep pool of top 50 caliber WR prospects and bet on one becoming a superstar and the other becoming pretty good, and still have plenty of picks this year and next to continue building the rest of the roster. But I would rather trade way up than say take an EDGE in the 1st and get whatever slim pickings is left at WR at #60. We HAVE to maximize our chances of getting a top tier WR out of this draft. Trade way up or double dip, that's the move.

 

And I don't agree that top-tier talent can't overcome less-than-elite coaching. As recent examples I would point to the 2017 Eagles, the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, and the 2022 Eagles. It's certainly much harder, and that will be our handicap until Pegula makes the tough decision to move on, but it's doable.

 

Edited April 25 by HappyDays

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I can almost guarantee one of the WRs we want really bad will be there at 60.

Idk, I guess it just depends which WRs you want really bad, but for me it’s Nabers, MHj, Odunze, BTj, Mitchell, Legette, Worthy, Mcconkey, Franklin and Polk.  Those are the guys I’d be happy about taking with our 1st pick (Franklin and Polk preferably in a trade back).  
 

I’d be happy with Pearsall, Coleman and Wilson would be nice if they were the 2nd WR we drafted. I think they’re all gone by 60 but it’s possible.  Baler is the only guy I think has a good chance of being there and he’s more of a 3rd rd guy for me.   

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

You go up into the top 5 and get Harrison and tbh, idgaf what we have up. Short of trading Josh Allen idc. You aren’t planning on picking early, the draft is a crapshoot and you aren’t going to worry about it 5 mins after the pick. Just go up and make it happen and live with Tue consequences. We are trying to finally win one of these things.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would love to mimic what those teams have done but that is going to come from a coaching change, not from intentionally diluting our talent. I know you like McDermott more than I do but even you have to admit we have seen enough of his career to know that he isn't an elite coach. I don't trust him to ever put on a defensive coaching masterclass like Steve Spagnuolo just did in the AFCCG and Super Bowl. Our offense is never going to be as creative and meticulously designed as Kyle Shanahan's. Those are pie in the sky outcomes at this point. The only way we are going to beat teams with that caliber of coaching is by simply overwhelming them with top tier talent.

 

 

Beane has described Curtis Samuel as a "weapon" not as a WR. He is the plus-plus version of what we tried to get for cheap with McKenzie and Harty. I don't think his signing tells me anything about what the Bills want to do. They have wanted that gadget player since Daboll was here, and Beane finally just threw his hands up and paid a mid-sized contract to get a good one once and for all.

 

 

I don't agree we need to spend an enormous amount of draft capital. Keeping to the topic of this thread, I am not one who is banging the drum to trade way way up the board for Harrison or Nabers. If Odunze makes it to 9 that's where my appetite for trading up begins, and even then I would not want to give up this year's 2nd. My preferred strategy is trade down, draft a WR with our first pick, then trade up in the 2nd round to draft another WR. I would double dip from this incredibly deep pool of top 50 caliber WR prospects and bet on one becoming a superstar and the other becoming pretty good, and still have plenty of picks this year and next to continue building the rest of the roster. But I would rather trade way up than say take an EDGE in the 1st and get whatever slim pickings is left at WR at #60. We HAVE to maximize our chances of getting a top tier WR out of this draft. Trade way up or double dip, that's the move.

 

And I don't agree that top-tier coaching can't over come less-than-elite coaching. As recent examples I would point to the 2017 Eagles, the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, and the 2022 Eagles. It's certainly much harder, and that will be our handicap until Pegula makes the tough decision to move on, but it's doable.

All thoughtful stuff.   Thanks.   Basically, we don't agree, and I'm good with that.   

 

I like your draft strategy, but I seriously doubt that that strategy is going to land a talent who will transform the passing game.   I doubt the Bills are getting 1000 yards out the guy they take at 28 or early in the second.  The difference between you and me is that you seem to think they will.   You're essentially saying take 2 of the top 10 and one will work out.   Okay, but I doubt it.  I'm saying that they only need to take one, because they only need him to be a 600-800 yard guy.  

 

As for Samuel, I don't think they think he's the gadget guy the other guys couldn't become.  He's had, I think, a 1000 yard season.   He's a gadget guy like Deebo.   They want him running routes, which he's good at, and they want to line him up in the backfield because he can actually take handoffs and follow blocks AND he can run routes out of the backfield.  But this, too, is just you and I reading different things into what Beane said.

 

I won't argue with you about how some teams got good in the recent past.  You may be right.  However, I will point out that the Bengals got good by landing two, not one but two, wideouts who are as good or better than the best single wideout the Bills will find by Friday night.  And that model hasn't worked so well for the past couple of years.  

 

I like you comment about McDermott.   I think he's a great, great coach, but I agree that he isn't a defensive mastermind.  Might have grown into one if he stayed as a DC, but his skill at leading men meant he was destined to be a HC.   I think he'll always have a really good defense, but because it may only rarely be great, it's important that he has an OC who is special.   I wasn't a huge Daboll fan, and as I said, Dorsey was not at all the guy.  I won't make any judgments about Brady until December and January.  

[Thrivefourfive]

Sims’s final mock has Rom’a’Dunzé going to BUF. I like, if we can’t get Nabers or MHJ.

 

I’m looking at the draft board and I honestly see a lot of teams who would be better off not taking the Big 3.
 

Harbaugh is bringing back bully ball, and he’s taking Alt. You’ll all see. He’s coming in hot. To me, the scariest threat that we don’t talk about yet. We will. Bolts.
 

The Giants have no quarterback, and you don’t start off with a top WR in wasteland for the foreseeable future. They take Latham.

 

Atlanta, if they get the pick, should be building incrementally on both sides of ball. They have Cousins to throw to London, Pitts, Bijan, holds down the fort.. they can strike on the defensive side right now.

 

Why is everyone behaving like the Jets don’t have enough weapons?? Rodgers is there to make everyone better.. why is the narrative now that Rodgers needs more weapons more weapons more weapons? He has enough. Jesus, you’d think he was a liability like Manning’s last year. 😡

 

The Bears would be so foolish to take a WR at 9. Rookie QB, see what he has.. to do that, he needs time to throw. OLine. Then you can add a WR that Williams can guide how to play with him.

 

Raiders QB.

 

Saints maybe.

 

Colts… why? They still have JT? And Richardson,, again, right now, he’s a runner. Colts have no idea if he can even throw in the NFL. Don’t waste a WR until you know for sure.

 

Seattle no - screams defense.

 

Jacksonville YES, WR. 
 

Am I crazy?

[stuvian]

23 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

What’s your plan to improve the pass rush ? This draft is very skinny at edge  after the Top 3 who will be long gone at 28
 

Knowing we weren't going to get a star rusher in the draft we're better off taking a salary dump like Hendrickson opposite Miller

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, stuvian said:

 

We found out the hard way that Miller needs a Chubb. he's ineffective by himself. I'd rather have a platoon of 9 sack guys we can rotate on fresh legs than one guy who can get 20 sacks but gets double teamed. 

Of the subject, but I'm amazed that people seem to have amnesia about 2022.  Playing in a rotation on the Bills' defensive line, he had 8 sacks in less than 11 games, and he was pretty much the same disruptive force he'd been in previous years.  He was on a better pace than 2021.  And, by the way, in 2021 he had four sacks in four playoff games.  

 

I think Miller is an unknown quantity going into this season, but I will not be surprised, not surprised at all, if he has double digit sacks. 

6 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

 

 

Why is everyone behaving like the Jets don’t have enough weapons?? Rodgers is there to make everyone better.. why is the narrative now that Rodgers needs more weapons more weapons more weapons? He has enough. Jesus, you’d think he was a liability like Manning’s last year. 😡

 

 

For the same reason everyone here says, year after year, that Allen doesn't have enough weapons.  

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would love to mimic what those teams have done but that is going to come from a coaching change, not from intentionally diluting our talent. I know you like McDermott more than I do but even you have to admit we have seen enough of his career to know that he isn't an elite coach. I don't trust him to ever put on a defensive coaching masterclass like Steve Spagnuolo just did in the AFCCG and Super Bowl. Our offense is never going to be as creative and meticulously designed as Kyle Shanahan's under McDermott's leadership. Those are pie in the sky outcomes at this point. The only way we are going to beat teams with that caliber of coaching is by simply overwhelming them with top tier talent.

 

 

Beane has described Curtis Samuel as a "weapon" not as a WR. He is the plus-plus version of what we tried to get for cheap with McKenzie and Harty. I don't think his signing tells me anything about what the Bills want to do. They have wanted that gadget player since Daboll was here, and Beane finally just threw his hands up and paid a mid-sized contract to get a good one once and for all.

 

 

I don't agree we need to spend an enormous amount of draft capital. Keeping to the topic of this thread, I am not one who is banging the drum to trade way way up the board for Harrison or Nabers. If Odunze makes it to 9 that's where my appetite for trading up begins, and even then I would not want to give up this year's 2nd. My preferred strategy is trade down, draft a WR with our first pick, then trade up in the 2nd round to draft another WR. I would double dip from this incredibly deep pool of top 50 caliber WR prospects and bet on one becoming a superstar and the other becoming pretty good, and still have plenty of picks this year and next to continue building the rest of the roster. But I would rather trade way up than say take an EDGE in the 1st and get whatever slim pickings is left at WR at #60. We HAVE to maximize our chances of getting a top tier WR out of this draft. Trade way up or double dip, that's the move.

 

And I don't agree that top-tier talent can't overcome less-than-elite coaching. As recent examples I would point to the 2017 Eagles, the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, and the 2022 Eagles. It's certainly much harder, and that will be our handicap until Pegula makes the tough decision to move on, but it's doable.

 

You know why they won't go get a legit OC

 

after six weeks it would be painfully obvious who the HC should be

[bearstobills]

Man, I wish I could get on the BTJ train... but I can't.  My kingdom for one highlight of him snatching the ball over the middle, or a route that shows nuance and shiftiness. If he's drafted, I'll get on-board quick.  But I see a souped up Gabe.  Plus he has injury concerns, on-field concerns (hands, route running clearly a work in progress), and personality concerns (doesn't exactly strike me as an alpha).  He strikes me as the Tremaine Edmunds of wide receivers.  He's super impressive physically, but a complete projection as a football player.  Beane, like most GM's, are salivating over his traits.  But I'd be thrilled if they pass on him.  Also, can someone give me a more hopeful comp than Christian Watson or DJ Chark.  The PFF guys have him somewhere between wr #9 and wr#15.  I'm open to plenty of positivity.

[Thrivefourfive]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Of the subject, but I'm amazed that people seem to have amnesia about 2022.  Playing in a rotation on the Bills' defensive line, he had 8 sacks in less than 11 games, and he was pretty much the same disruptive force he'd been in previous years.  He was on a better pace than 2021.  And, by the way, in 2021 he had four sacks in four playoff games.  

 

I think Miller is an unknown quantity going into this season, but I will not be surprised, not surprised at all, if he has double digit sacks. 

For the same reason everyone here says, year after year, that Allen doesn't have enough weapons.  

Yeah, but he doesn’t. Give Allen the Jets weapons, and we’re not looking WR in the draft. 

[Aussie Joe]

14 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Knowing we weren't going to get a star rusher in the draft we're better off taking a salary dump like Hendrickson opposite Miller

Yes please .. not sure they are sending him our way though …maybe there is someone else Beane can trade for ,,. Because I don’t think they are drafting someone who is going to solve their problems …

[Reed83HOF]

59 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I don't agree with you or Happy about what the Bills need, but I am not going to be disappointed tomorrow.  Beane and McDermott know what they want, and they have a plan.  They will have a receiver by Friday night, and that receiver will be a success.  He will be a success because the Bills will need him to get only 600-800 yards, and there apparently are a lot of guys in the draft who will be able to do that.  They'll do it because they won't be asked to do too much, just run the routes and catch the ball when you're open.  Someone else - Kincaid, Shakir, or Samuel - will go over 1000.  Or maybe it'll be the rookie.  It might even be two guys going over 1000.   

 

I'm confident it will work, assuming Brady can deliver the kind of offense that's expected. 

I wish I had your level of confidence - I think without having a #1 to roll coverage away it will make life much more difficult. I also lack the confidence in our coaching staff, we are not like KC or SF where we can easily scheme people open and always have a target. When the plays break down, we do not have that guy that will make those plays for us. We need a game breaker

[MDH]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

It's literally the worst position group in the draft, so let's go there. You actually might get a difference maker WR at 28, though.

 

Which is why if one of the top 4 or so guys at edge are there in the 1st the Bills should seriously consider taking one as one of the plethora of WRs will still be around in round 2. Taking advantage of the depth of the WR class means you don't HAVE to take one in the 1st.

[Alphadawg7]

My concerns on Worthy further explained on his 2023 season:

1. Only caught 6 of his 23 deep ball targets.
2. Only caught 5 of his 21 contested targets.
3. Working over the middle of the field he had some drops and incompletions by alligator arming some opportunities, which with his frame that is not surprising.  
4. 40% of his snaps were from the slot.
5. 21% of his targets were screens.

Im not gonna hate taking him, I mean the speed is exciting.  But this guy plays to his size as compared to someone like Tank Dell or Tyreek Hill who are typical guys brought up when talking about Worthy.  But both those guys both play bigger than their frame and are stronger for their size than Worthy is.  

 

So where my concern comes from is the WR room makeup overall.  We are a team who already has 3 guys in Samuel, Shakir, and Kincaid who are going to all be commanding Slot snaps...adding a WR in the draft who played 40% of his snaps in the slot and has not shown great deep ball skills makes me a bit concerned about the how these guys blend together.  

 

Again, if we end up taking him first, I won't be pissed, but I will be concerned on where we are going to get size and toughness from on our offense outside Allen when the weather gets bad and the games get more physical in the playoffs.  

[jahnyc]

Seems like Odunze wants to go to Chicago to join Williams.  Not sure if Chicago is planning to draft him at #9, but if we really want him, probably need to move in front of the Bears if he would otherwise be there at their pick.  I don't think we will be able to pull this off, but I hope I am surprised tomorrow evening.  If this does happen, I also hope that Odunze will be excited and appreciative.

Edited April 25 by jahnyc