Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 minute ago, phypon said: If you're okay with not requiring proof of citizenship in order to vote in US elections I would submit that YOU are the fascist. You distinctively used the word "unfortunately", so I'm sure if you are okay with this. If you are okay with this, why are you supportive of non-citizens voting in our elections? As many as 7 percent of U.S. citizens – 13 million people – do not have access to the documents that prove their birth and citizenship, according to research by the Brennan Center https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-americans-obtaining-birth-certificate-proves-challenging-alfred-lubrano-inquirer-staff-writer/#:~:text=As many as 7 percent,research by the Brennan Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: As many as 7 percent of U.S. citizens – 13 million people – do not have access to the documents that prove their birth and citizenship, according to research by the Brennan Center https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-americans-obtaining-birth-certificate-proves-challenging-alfred-lubrano-inquirer-staff-writer/#:~:text=As many as 7 percent,research by the Brennan Center. Don't see a date on this article. I'm sure there are MILLIONS more than that (you know, the border and all) that don't have proof of citizenship. So basically, you don't care if someone has proof of citizenship, everyone standing on the ground in this country (or overseas with a mail in ballot) should be able to vote in the elections. And you are fine with that? ETA: Also, the woman in the link you provided is 62 years old. Are you telling me that she only just now found out she needs to prove that she's a US citizen? And that photo was from 2014. How did she make it all these years? Can't imagine the back taxes she's going to owe. How did she get a job her entire life? C'mon man, stop being stupid. Edited August 21 by phypon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 minutes ago, phypon said: Don't see a date on this article. I'm sure there are MILLIONS more than that (you know, the border and all) that don't have proof of citizenship. So basically, you don't care if someone has proof of citizenship, everyone standing on the ground in this country (or overseas with a mail in ballot) should be able to vote in the elections. And you are fine with that? ETA: Also, the woman in the link you provided is 62 years old. Are you telling me that she only just now found out she needs to prove that she's a US citizen? And that photo was from 2014. How did she make it all these years? Can't imagine the back taxes she's going to owe. How did she get a job her entire life? C'mon man, stop being stupid. You don’t need show US citizens ship to file taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: You don’t need show US citizens ship to file taxes. You need a SSN to get a job and a credit card (at least you did 20 years ago). So you are saying that this woman never had a W2 or credit card her entire life, never took out a loan or car loan and paid for everything in cash and paid her taxes even though she had no reported income? Yes, I'm sure she got paid in cash her entire life and reported her income to the IRS because even though for some odd reason she doesn't have proof of citizenship she is a fine upstanding American citizen that pays her taxes and reports all of her cash income to the IRS. How's that spectrum looking now? Wake up. That article is BS and advocating for people that don't have proof of citizenship to vote in OUR elections, well, you're just way off base here. Can I vote for what you and your wife and children have for dinner tomorrow night? Maybe I will be the tie breaker vote. I vote for tacos and a sci-fi movie. ETA: If you're not a citizen of this country, you're not voting. Edited August 21 by phypon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 37 minutes ago, phypon said: You need a SSN to get a job and a credit card (at least you did 20 years ago). So you are saying that this woman never had a W2 or credit card her entire life, never took out a loan or car loan and paid for everything in cash and paid her taxes even though she had no reported income? Yes, I'm sure she got paid in cash her entire life and reported her income to the IRS because even though for some odd reason she doesn't have proof of citizenship she is a fine upstanding American citizen that pays her taxes and reports all of her cash income to the IRS. How's that spectrum looking now? Wake up. That article is BS and advocating for people that don't have proof of citizenship to vote in OUR elections, well, you're just way off base here. Can I vote for what you and your wife and children have for dinner tomorrow night? Maybe I will be the tie breaker vote. I vote for tacos and a sci-fi movie. ETA: If you're not a citizen of this country, you're not voting. Under the AZ law just having an SSN is not proof of citizenship. Senior citizens often lose their birth cortical after 65 plus years. Service people or college students aren’t bringing their birth certificate to a different state, but if they register using the Federal form the certificate is not needed anyways. You need to get out of your bubble and understand that not everyone has a passport or a birth certificate or access to them. These people can still be US citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Under the AZ law just having an SSN is not proof of citizenship. Senior citizens often lose their birth cortical after 65 plus years. Service people or college students aren’t bringing their birth certificate to a different state, but if they register using the Federal form the certificate is not needed anyways. You need to get out of your bubble and understand that not everyone has a passport or a birth certificate or access to them. These people can still be US citizens. Lose your birth certificate, forget your SSN, let me know how you get paid, get a job, have credit, have a bank account, have a credit card, a house, and a car. Can you please tell us how we can live off the grid without those forms of ID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, phypon said: Lose your birth certificate, forget your SSN, let me know how you get paid, get a job, have credit, have a bank account, have a credit card, a house, and a car. Can you please tell us how we can live off the grid without those forms of ID? I’m still not sure if you’re understanding the AZ law. Say you’re a college student born in Phoenix. You go to UB for college. Your friend says hey! Register for to vote Kamala, so you fill out the Federal registration form and you put your SSN on the registration form. You get to Phoenix this November to vote and they say sorry, you’re not registered because you did not provide a birth certificate when you registered. Say you’re a service member. You get stationed overseas. You fill out the Federal Registration and put your SSN. Your birth certificate is in Tempe so you do not include it. You go to vote by mail in November, you are rejected because even though you put your SSN you didn’t include your birth certificate since it was back in the US and you had no way of getting it. Now say the law was it’s ok to vote for the President without the birth certificate in AZ but 3 months form the election after people already registered, we want to change the rules. That is what the Republicans are suing to do. Edited August 21 by Backintheday544 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Now why would they do that I wonder? I wonder. And sorry, no proof of citizenship, no vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I’m still not sure if you’re understanding the AZ law. Say you’re a college student born in Phoenix. You go to UB for college. Your friend says hey! Register for to vote Kamala, so you fill out the Federal registration form and you put your SSN on the registration form. You get to Phoenix this November to vote and they say sorry, you’re not registered because you did not provide a birth certificate when you registered. Say you’re a service member. You get stationed overseas. You fill out the Federal Registration and put your SSN. Your birth certificate is in Tempe so you do not include it. You go to vote by mail in November, you are rejected because even though you put your SSN you didn’t include your birth certificate since it was back in the US and you had no way of getting it. That is what the Republicans are suing to do. I'm still not sure you're understanding voter registration. If you are already registered to vote in AZ and that's where you are going to vote, why would you register to vote in another state? The laws are setup to prevent multiple votes in different locations. And, we're talking about proof of citizenship in the first place here. So, your example is a non sequitur to begin with. Bottom line, are you okay with non citizens voting in our elections? That's the question. I'm not okay with that. If you lose your "cards", you are still in the system and can get your "cards" to prove you are a citizen. Do you think it's that easy to erase your identity and go off grid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 2 minutes ago, phypon said: I'm still not sure you're understanding voter registration. If you are already registered to vote in AZ and that's where you are going to vote, why would you register to vote in another state? The laws are setup to prevent multiple votes in different locations. And, we're talking about proof of citizenship in the first place here. So, your example is a non sequitur to begin with. Bottom line, are you okay with non citizens voting in our elections? That's the question. I'm not okay with that. If you lose your "cards", you are still in the system and can get your "cards" to prove you are a citizen. Do you think it's that easy to erase your identity and go off grid? The idea being you never registered before. A student never registered before is an AZ resident. They go to UB for college and don’t have their birth certificate. They register for the first time for AZ where they are a resident while they are in Buffalo. Same with the soldier example. Which is why people are saying this disenfranchises students and soldiers Edited August 21 by Backintheday544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, phypon said: I'm still not sure you're understanding voter registration. If you are already registered to vote in AZ and that's where you are going to vote, why would you register to vote in another state? The laws are setup to prevent multiple votes in different locations. And, we're talking about proof of citizenship in the first place here. So, your example is a non sequitur to begin with. Bottom line, are you okay with non citizens voting in our elections? That's the question. I'm not okay with that. If you lose your "cards", you are still in the system and can get your "cards" to prove you are a citizen. Do you think it's that easy to erase your identity and go off grid? Also your SS Card is not proof of citizenship under the AZ law. You need: Your Indian Census Number, Bureau of Indian Affairs Card Number, Tribal Treaty Card Number, or fill in your Tribal Enrollment Number in Box 10 on the voter registration form. A photocopy of your U.S. naturalization documents or fill in your Alien Registration Number in Box 11 on the voter registration form. A legible photocopy of your birth certificate and supporting legal documentation (i.e., marriage certificate) if the name on the birth certificate is not the same as your current legal name. A legible photocopy of the pertinent pages of your U.S. passport. A legible photocopy of your Tribal Certificate of Indian Blood or Bureau of Indian Affairs Affidavit of Birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Also your SS Card is not proof of citizenship under the AZ law. You need: Your Indian Census Number, Bureau of Indian Affairs Card Number, Tribal Treaty Card Number, or fill in your Tribal Enrollment Number in Box 10 on the voter registration form. A photocopy of your U.S. naturalization documents or fill in your Alien Registration Number in Box 11 on the voter registration form. A legible photocopy of your birth certificate and supporting legal documentation (i.e., marriage certificate) if the name on the birth certificate is not the same as your current legal name. A legible photocopy of the pertinent pages of your U.S. passport. A legible photocopy of your Tribal Certificate of Indian Blood or Bureau of Indian Affairs Affidavit of Birth. So...proof of citizenship. What's your issue here? That someone has misplaced it and can't find it and they should just be allowed to skate? That's not the way it works in any other situation where you are required to show proof of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Also your SS Card is not proof of citizenship under the AZ law. You need: Your Indian Census Number, Bureau of Indian Affairs Card Number, Tribal Treaty Card Number, or fill in your Tribal Enrollment Number in Box 10 on the voter registration form. A photocopy of your U.S. naturalization documents or fill in your Alien Registration Number in Box 11 on the voter registration form. A legible photocopy of your birth certificate and supporting legal documentation (i.e., marriage certificate) if the name on the birth certificate is not the same as your current legal name. A legible photocopy of the pertinent pages of your U.S. passport. A legible photocopy of your Tribal Certificate of Indian Blood or Bureau of Indian Affairs Affidavit of Birth. Ok, let's make this easy for you to understand. If you are a native American, you need to provide documentation. If you were born in one state and reside in another and want to register to vote, you have to have documentation (native American or not). How are you getting into college in another state without any form of documentation? Without any record of attending any school? Have you ever heard of the US postal service or fax machines or email? Everything is documented and stored, it's called a "database" and everyone has a file on record, since the 1950's. If you are not on record or have appropriate documentation to show that you are a citizen, then you are probably not a citizen. It's not that difficult to prove you are a citizen. There are records of what hospital you were born in. I get it, you are okay with non-citizens voting. Just say it. Because right now, you look really, really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Here's a mind twist for you. What if the majority of those non-citizen voters vote for Trump? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 7 hours ago, Doc said: So...proof of citizenship. What's your issue here? That someone has misplaced it and can't find it and they should just be allowed to skate? That's not the way it works in any other situation where you are required to show proof of something. Except here you are not required to show proof to vote in Federal elections. If you don’t like that law, then change it. Which is what Republicans are trying to do with lawfare. Theres also issues with requiring a citizen to get documentation. The cost to do so would amount to a poll tax, which is unconstitutional . At the end of the day, we have a bunch of AZ, American citizens that for one reason or another used the federal form to enroll in voter registration, now 3 months before the election may get expelled from the voter registry not due to anything they did but Republicans don’t want them to vote: It’s cool if yall want to come up with a way to have like a Federal voter registry that checks if someone is a citizen. But yall need to find constitutional ways to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Lmao. ID to vote is a poll tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I get sick of this voter eligibility nonsense. I served for five years as an election officer here, and the last two of those handled all the provisional ballots at our precinct. Bottom line, it is incredibly easy to verify status, and even if you don't, becasue you are either incredibly lazy, stupid or want to make a point, (and we had about three of these goofs every election), you can submit a provisional ballot to be reviewed. If you can't do the incredibly minimal stuff, maybe you don't deserve the right. It's not like the US is demanding military service or property ownership for the right. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 hours ago, sherpa said: I get sick of this voter eligibility nonsense. I served for five years as an election officer here, and the last two of those handled all the provisional ballots at our precinct. Bottom line, it is incredibly easy to verify status, and even if you don't, becasue you are either incredibly lazy, stupid or want to make a point, (and we had about three of these goofs every election), you can submit a provisional ballot to be reviewed. If you can't do the incredibly minimal stuff, maybe you don't deserve the right. It's not like the US is demanding military service or property ownership for the right. This. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: LOL read: AZ can't block the people from voting in Nov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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