Will we be in Super Bowl contention this year?

[Sweats]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Stats 🤷‍♂️

   Zero argument that Josh needs/deserves more weapons…. But:

   Mahomes 17/23 for 215 (74%) for and 2TDs

   VS

   Josh 26/39 for 186 and one TD.

    Pacheco rattled off 97yds and a TD for a 6.4 avg.

    Josh got 72 yds and 2TDs.

    
     This was Belicheat ball 101. Control the clock KNOWING you’re the better team. Hit your shots when you get them and let the other team beat itself…… again. And we did, while hanging it all on Josh ( and some on here blaming him for the loss)

 

     Of course we aren’t getting to the Super Bowl this year. Give Josh any one boundary receiver of your choice and we still aren’t making the Super Bowl. 
    This coaching staff did what, over the last four years, to make anyone think otherwise? They get your hopes up, play good teams well, lose absolute dreck games to teams they have zero excuses to lose to and crap out in the playoffs.

    Remember how we came out of the gates last year? As the Redneck joke punchline goes, “ Hey y’all, watch this!” This year.

    

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

I don't recall anyone ever blaming the loss on JA, i might be wrong.....

[skibum]

Not likely. Josh always gives us a puncher's chance, but make no mistake - This is a rebuilding year. 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, skibum said:

Not likely. Josh always gives us a puncher's chance, but make no mistake - This is a rebuilding year. 

I think it's a retooling year.   To me, rebuilding means creating something new - you built it, and now you're going to build it again.   Bills aren't doing that.  They're doing what the Patriots did all those years - some guys leave, some new guys come in, the team keeps going.  

 

If the retooling doesn't work, then they should consider rebuilding.  

[SoTier]

39 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

That’s my point. A lot of those players (and other talented pieces) are now gone permanently. Yet some are claiming that McD will have them playing championship caliber defense regardless of the personnel on the field. 

 

Did you watch the Bills last season -- I mean really watch them by paying attention to what was going in the game not just kibbutzing with pals, especially in the last half of the season when they made their big run?   They were playing championship caliber defense with an injury depleted unit.  Matt Milano and Tre White were out for the season in the fifth game of the season, and they looked doomed but they regained their momentum and played tough the rest of the way.  At the very end of the season and in the playoff win against Pittsburgh, they had more injuries to the DBs and the LBs.   They only started 4 LBs -- including AJ Klein who came out of retirement to play --  against the Chiefs and were missing at least one DB and had another playing limited snaps IIRC, too.  It wasn't the defense that let them down against KC, it was the offense that missed a couple of plays that would have won the game.

 

Poyer and Hyde were shadows of their previous selves last season.  Injuries did in Hyde, and both had slowed down.  White was showing signs of coming back but then he suffered another devastating injury and missed the last 12 games.  Miller did next to nothing last season when he did come back, so if he gets back to even a shadow of himself in 2024, it will be a plus.  Milano broke his leg rather than suffering a ligament injury so it's likely that he can come back strong this season.  The Bills will miss Leonard Floyd on the DL but they're bringing back Ed Oliver who blossomed last season and AJ Epenesa who showed real progress.  Tyrel Dodson at LB is gone but Terrel Bernard was outstanding as a 2nd year pro and should be better this year, especially paired with Milano.   The 3 starting CBs from last season, Douglas, Benford, and Johnson are all coming back.   Edwards and Rapp are the new safeties, which is somewhat worrisome but remember that Poyer and Hyde were largely unknowns when they were signed in 2017.  

 

The Bills defense is a work in progress but there's still the draft and post-June 1 FA signings (when they get some extra cap space).  They definitely need a pass rusher and probably another safety, and their depth on defense is shaky.   McDermott runs a defense that seems to enable the Bills to plug-in players fairly easily as needed.  IMO, the Bills D will likely be about as good as last season.  If they can avoid devastating injuries to their best players, they have a chance to be better than last season.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

Do you watch the Bills games?!? We were the 6th highest scoring offense in the league last year. The offense is not the issue. Fairweather TV fans may think so but that is not the case. That was with an inept OC for half of the season.

That being said, the Chiefs were the 15th ranked scoring offense. But their D was stout and played excellent when it mattered. Now we had injuries... but adding good depth to our D this season, which was decimated during the off season, is priority. Watch Thursday... you may learn something.

 

😂😂

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

I don't recall anyone ever blaming the loss on JA, i might be wrong.....

   Some People were all over him for going for the TD and not the first down. Read the comment two above this….” It was the offense that missed a couple plays” 🤷‍♂️

    There were threads attacking him and defending him as I recall. SMH at anyone putting it on him. He was the ONLY reason we were in that game….. as usual.

Edited April 22 by Buffalo Boy

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Did you watch the Bills last season -- I mean really watch them by paying attention to what was going in the game not just kibbutzing with pals, especially in the last half of the season when they made their big run?   They were playing championship caliber defense with an injury depleted unit.  Matt Milano and Tre White were out for the season in the fifth game of the season, and they looked doomed but they regained their momentum and played tough the rest of the way.  At the very end of the season and in the playoff win against Pittsburgh, they had more injuries to the DBs and the LBs.   They only started 4 LBs -- including AJ Klein who came out of retirement to play --  against the Chiefs and were missing at least one DB and had another playing limited snaps IIRC, too.  It wasn't the defense that let them down against KC, it was the offense that missed a couple of plays that would have won the game.

 

Poyer and Hyde were shadows of their previous selves last season.  Injuries did in Hyde, and both had slowed down.  White was showing signs of coming back but then he suffered another devastating injury and missed the last 12 games.  Miller did next to nothing last season when he did come back, so if he gets back to even a shadow of himself in 2024, it will be a plus.  Milano broke his leg rather than suffering a ligament injury so it's likely that he can come back strong this season.  The Bills will miss Leonard Floyd on the DL but they're bringing back Ed Oliver who blossomed last season and AJ Epenesa who showed real progress.  Tyrel Dodson at LB is gone but Terrel Bernard was outstanding as a 2nd year pro and should be better this year, especially paired with Milano.   The 3 starting CBs from last season, Douglas, Benford, and Johnson are all coming back.   Edwards and Rapp are the new safeties, which is somewhat worrisome but remember that Poyer and Hyde were largely unknowns when they were signed in 2017.  

 

The Bills defense is a work in progress but there's still the draft and post-June 1 FA signings (when they get some extra cap space).  They definitely need a pass rusher and probably another safety, and their depth on defense is shaky.   McDermott runs a defense that seems to enable the Bills to plug-in players fairly easily as needed.  IMO, the Bills D will likely be about as good as last season.  If they can avoid devastating injuries to their best players, they have a chance to be better than last season.

This is excellent.  Thanks.   I think it helps to focus as you've done here.   

 

I think what it says is that when McDermott has the kind of athletes he wants (and I'm not talking about stars, I'm talking about smart, aggressive, athletic guys with heart), his defense will be stingy.  When he has some stars, it can be tremendous.   

 

I think replacing the 2023 versions of Poyer and Hyde won't be too hard, although I think they need to find a starting safety somewhere.  Rapp and Edwards might get the job done, but I think they need an upgrade. 

 

One thing that went under the radar last week in Beane's presser was his off-hand comment about Miller.  He said something about the three defenders recovering from injuries (meaning Bernard, Milano, and Miller), and then quickly corrected himself and said, "two, Miller is fine."   I didn't think much of it at the time, but I think that Miller is flying under everyone's radar.  Miller is coming back 100%.   I know, some people thought he was 100% by the end of last season and that he showed that he just doesn't have it any more, but there's a good chance that opinion is wrong.  It's often said that players don't really get back from ACLs until their second season back.  If the real Von Miller is back, he alone changes the character of the defense. 

 

And, as you say, there will be some names on the roster in September that aren't there today, and among those names will be at least a couple of guys contributing in ways we wouldn't have expected.   At this time last year, for example, Rasul Douglas wasn't a consideration.  

 

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

19 hours ago, mannc said:

Sure, a team with Josh Allen in his prime, a coach going into his eighth year with the team, and a veteran roster is "rebuilding"...yeah, OK 

You've never seen a team with an elite quarterback lose a lot of players in an offseason and then perform poorly the following year or two while their replacements get acclimated?

best case scenario we're looking at a Pats 2009 type scenario where we bounce back after a year off.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

50 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You've never seen a team with an elite quarterback lose a lot of players in an offseason and then perform poorly the following year or two while their replacements get acclimated?

best case scenario we're looking at a Pats 2009 type scenario where we bounce back after a year off.

which is why months ago, I was advocating for cutting von miller, too and eating that whole ***** sandwich this year

 

alllllll the dead cap all at once, anyone who's trying to convince themselves that this year is our year is fooling themselves.

 

[MikePJ76]

Yes.

 

The AFC is brutal but the Bills will be among the AFC's top team.  

 

Being an underdog this year is going to be great.  

 

I hope they get some help on defense this weekend, find a wr that fits, add one more vet wr, find a solid every down running back and a new kicker.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

which is why months ago, I was advocating for cutting von miller, too and eating that whole ***** sandwich this year

 

alllllll the dead cap all at once, anyone who's trying to convince themselves that this year is our year is fooling themselves.

 

Agreed. Maybe they still will later on. If I were GM, I'd try to see if I could eat all the bad deals this year including Knox's contract and if Milano can come back to form, I'd look at trading him in season for draft capital to next year - even though he's my favorite player. I'd look to see how we could get younger and cheaper so that by 2026 we have a team that's really humming and has a shot at being the best in the league.

[SoTier]

52 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You've never seen a team with an elite quarterback lose a lot of players in an offseason and then perform poorly the following year or two while their replacements get acclimated?

best case scenario we're looking at a Pats 2009 type scenario where we bounce back after a year off.

 

The Pats missed the playoffs in 2008 because Brady tore up his knee in the season opener.   They went 11-5 but Miami beat them out with Chad Pennington taking them to a 11-5 record, too.   If the Bills lost Allen in the first game of the season, they probably will miss the playoffs, too.  

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

The Pats missed the playoffs in 2008 because Brady tore up his knee in the season opener.   They went 11-5 but Miami beat them out with Chad Pennington taking them to a 11-5 record, too.   If the Bills lost Allen in the first game of the season, they probably will miss the playoffs, too.  

I'm talking 2009 when they bid farewell to most of their core that was part of the initial dynasty. Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison all departed in addition to losing Pioli and McDaniels. Despite still having a lot of talent on the team including Brady, Welker and Moss and despite still winning the division, they were a flawed team that wasn't a real super bowl contender.

Now, we don't even have the benefit of having a Welker, Moss, Brady or Belichick and we were never champions to begin with, but it's still a comp for how elite teams need to take a step back sometimes even with an elite QB and other elite talent. There were plenty of years with the Ben-led Steelers or Rodgers led packers that they were pretenders due to roster gaps, even though they would put up a  good showing in the regular season.

[SoTier]

15 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

which is why months ago, I was advocating for cutting von miller, too and eating that whole ***** sandwich this year

 

alllllll the dead cap all at once, anyone who's trying to convince themselves that this year is our year is fooling themselves.

 

 

It takes a long time for players to come back from ACLs, almost always more than a year physically and frequently longer psychologically.   If the Bills didn't feel that Miller could play significantly better than he had last season, they probably would have cut him.  OTOH, if Miller didn't feel that he could play significantly better, he wouldn't have taken a $10 million pay cut to prove it.  He would have either retired or gotten paid by some other team.

 

Furthermore, if the Bills had cut Miller, they would have created more holes on the team because they would have had to cut more veterans and been unable to replace them with decent players.  Of course, they probably would have had to keep Diggs, which may or may not been a good thing. 

[mannc]

18 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Agreed. Maybe they still will later on. If I were GM, I'd try to see if I could eat all the bad deals this year including Knox's contract and if Milano can come back to form, I'd look at trading him in season for draft capital to next year - even though he's my favorite player. I'd look to see how we could get younger and cheaper so that by 2026 we have a team that's really humming and has a shot at being the best in the league.

We lost one key player, a guy who is 31 and whose production fell off a cliff the last 10 games of the season.  Every NFL team loses multiple starters every year, to trades, free agency or retirement.  FFS, you don’t even know who they’re going to add in the draft, and free agency isn’t over!
 

A team with prime Josh Allen is never in rebuilding mode…never.  I fully expect the Bills to be better in 2024 than they were last year.

[BullBuchanan]

37 minutes ago, mannc said:

We lost one key player, a guy who is 31 and whose production fell off a cliff the last 10 games of the season.  Every NFL team loses multiple starters every year, to trades, free agency or retirement.  FFS, you don’t even know who they’re going to add in the draft, and free agency isn’t over!
 

A team with prime Josh Allen is never in rebuilding mode…never.  I fully expect the Bills to be better in 2024 than they were last year.

That's a gross minimization of the scenario at hand. We lost our starting center, replacing him with a player who has minimal experience at the position and creating a gap at left guard that we're assuming will be handled adequately. We lost our top 2 receivers (82% snap count), our starting safeties, our #3 outside cornerback (43% snap count), our #3 and #4 DT (36% snap count), our #2 RB (30% snap count).

Our current two safeties are not NFL level starting players. Edwards is a borderline roster talent. We have a massive dropoff at CB #3.

I don't really care who they are adding in the draft for the purposes of my argument. They are going to be rookies, and late pick rookies at that. They will take time to acclimate.

Your last comment about never being in a rebuild just because we have Allen is maybe the most lolable part of this. If the Brady led Pats had to rebuild on several occassions while he was stacking Lombardis. Allen and his zero super bowl appearances is hardly immune.

[ToGoGo]

I think we surprise everyone this year. 
 

05-06 Sabres type of run to the AFC Championship. We go into 2025 as the Super Bowl favorite. 

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

A team with prime Josh Allen is never in rebuilding mode…never.

   The sad thing about this statement is how many on this thread have basically said the same thing.

   Have any of you “Josh is the second coming “ types actually watched this team the last few years. We can’t win games solely based on Josh being Josh. We actually lose games. 
    Josh NEEDS a team that has other stars on it if we are going to win it all….. difference makers. We have Cooke and Kincaid. They are both very good, possibly great if things break right, but they are not enough.

    Who are the difference makers on D? Douglas is my only one. 
    Josh has single handedly made a bunch of OCs and a certain HC look better than they are. 
    Snap out of it folks. We need difference makers, on the field and in the coaching ranks. We don’t have them. Josh alone does not Make everything ok. 

[mannc]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   The sad thing about this statement is how many on this thread have basically said the same thing.

   Have any of you “Josh is the second coming “ types actually watched this team the last few years. We can’t win games solely based on Josh being Josh. We actually lose games. 
    Josh NEEDS a team that has other stars on it if we are going to win it all….. difference makers. We have Cooke and Kincaid. They are both very good, possibly great if things break right, but they are not enough.

    Who are the difference makers on D? Douglas is my only one. 
    Josh has single handedly made a bunch of OCs and a certain HC look better than they are. 
    Snap out of it folks. We need difference makers, on the field and in the coaching ranks. We don’t have them. Josh alone does not Make everything ok. 

I don’t think you read anything I wrote.  Where did I say the Bills don’t need difference makers?   I said they are not rebuilding and will contend for a championship, just like they have the last four years.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   The sad thing about this statement is how many on this thread have basically said the same thing.

   Have any of you “Josh is the second coming “ types actually watched this team the last few years. We can’t win games solely based on Josh being Josh. We actually lose games. 
    Josh NEEDS a team that has other stars on it if we are going to win it all….. difference makers. We have Cooke and Kincaid. They are both very good, possibly great if things break right, but they are not enough.

    Who are the difference makers on D? Douglas is my only one. 
    Josh has single handedly made a bunch of OCs and a certain HC look better than they are. 
    Snap out of it folks. We need difference makers, on the field and in the coaching ranks. We don’t have them. Josh alone does not Make everything ok. 

Josh Allen could be traded this week and the narrative on TBD would be he is a turnover machine, we are a better team without him 🤣🤣🤣