Pegulas selling 25% of the Bills, per Tim Graham

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, papazoid said:

The Giving Pledge is a charitable campaign, founded by Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, to encourage wealthy people to contribute a majority (i.e. more than 50%) of their wealth to philanthropic causes. As of June 2022, the pledge has had 236 signatories from 28 countries

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge

 

Many people here seem to think wealthy people, especially the uber wealthy, are inherently evil for some reason. I would suggest that in general it’s not a good idea to be judging people you have never even been in a room with…….  Even if you think they are “hoarding” wealth. 

[BarleyNY]

Somewhat related tidbit I heard in Central PA last weekend is that Terry Pegula recently met with Neeli Bendapudi, the president of Penn State, about filling their NIL coffers. He is already a huge donor to the university so it’s not a surprise. 

Edited April 23 by BarleyNY

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I wonder how many teams are owned 100% by a single person/family and how many have investors. I think investors are a fairly common thing, and they have nothing but the best legal and financial advisors. This isn’t like us buying a vacation home with my sister-in-law. You can do your billionaire buddy a favor by letting him inside. 

Yes I thought it was exactly like buying a vacation home with your sister-in-law.

 

Amazingly I figured out they would get great legal/financial advice but things change.

 

Buying a minority interest in a private company is fraught with hidden dangers.  

 

What if the Feds/State want to start a wealth tax on unrealized capital gains, just like they have been angling for years to go after hedge Funds.  The govt agency could claim the "value" went up X million in one year and demand a cash tax payment.   IMO NYS and probably California are the two riskiest states for something like that.   Oversimplifying it but those are just some of the risks with minority positions in a private company.

9 hours ago, DasNootz said:

Offer fractional ownership (complete with profit sharing for stadium revenue) with the PSLs…

Not a bad idea, how many Bill fans would buy stock in the Bills just to say they own some.  That is if the NFL owners would allow it a la Green Bay but I doubt it.

[Augie]

On 4/22/2024 at 4:20 PM, Augie said:

 

I wonder how many teams are owned 100% by a single person/family and how many have investors. I think investors are a fairly common thing, and they have nothing but the best legal and financial advisors. This isn’t like us buying a vacation home with my sister-in-law. You can do your billionaire buddy a favor by letting him inside. 

 

Investors are far more common than I realized. The “owner” is only required to control 30% but can start sharing slowly with family after a period of ownership. The inheritance taxes are a critical reason owners had to find a solution, otherwise they’d be forced out of control. They are even considering letting private equity join the party to give some liquidity to minority investors and provide flexibility for the principal owner.  

 

This is a great article, if a bit long. It mentions the Bills specifically. In it they point out inheritance tax on a few hundred million dollar asset is one thing, a 5 BILLION dollar asset is something else. This is a complex world few of us can begin to imagine.  Taxation and liquidity. 

 

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/sports-recreation/nfl-owners-face-huge-real-estate-taxes-keep-teams-family

 

 

.

Edited April 23 by Augie

[CodeMonkey]

On 4/20/2024 at 12:45 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Selling the Sabres means the team moves. No one will pay what the Sabres are worth to keep the team here. Not when Houston and Atlanta want teams.

13 years of sucking and being the development team for the rest of the NHL.  .  And the response is a PR stunt head coach.  I don't think Pegula has it in him to do right by the team or the fans. So if that's what happens, so be it.

Edited April 23 by CodeMonkey

[TBBills Fan]

I placed my bid this afternoon. Fingers crossed. 

[SoCal Deek]

20 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

I placed my bid this afternoon. Fingers crossed. 

I hope you had it notarized. If you don’t have a Notary stamp on it…..it’ll be rejected. Just saying. 

[TBBills Fan]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I hope you had it notarized. If you don’t have a Notary stamp on it…..it’ll be rejected. Just saying. 

Oh *****

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I wouldn't be surprised if the new owner jacks up the prices of PSLs in order to make his 25% back faster

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes I thought it was exactly like buying a vacation home with your sister-in-law.

 

Amazingly I figured out they would get great legal/financial advice but things change.

 

Buying a minority interest in a private company is fraught with hidden dangers.  

 

What if the Feds/State want to start a wealth tax on unrealized capital gains, just like they have been angling for years to go after hedge Funds.  The govt agency could claim the "value" went up X million in one year and demand a cash tax payment.   IMO NYS and probably California are the two riskiest states for something like that.   Oversimplifying it but those are just some of the risks with minority positions in a private company.

Not a bad idea, how many Bill fans would buy stock in the Bills just to say they own some.  That is if the NFL owners would allow it a la Green Bay but I doubt it.

 

What has prevented them from doing so to this point?

 

The answer isn't hard to fathom...

 

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Investors are far more common than I realized. The “owner” is only required to control 30% but can start sharing slowly with family after a period of ownership. The inheritance taxes are a critical reason owners had to find a solution, otherwise they’d be forced out of control. They are even considering letting private equity join the party to give some liquidity to minority investors and provide flexibility for the principal owner.  

 

This is a great article, if a bit long. It mentions the Bills specifically. In it they point out inheritance tax on a few hundred million dollar asset is one thing, a 5 BILLION dollar asset is something else. This is a complex world few of us can begin to imagine.  Taxation and liquidity. 

 

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/sports-recreation/nfl-owners-face-huge-real-estate-taxes-keep-teams-family

 

 

.

 

the article points out that it is not common, but may be in the future.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the article points out that it is not common, but may be in the future.

 

Partners exist all over the league, it’s just not worth my time to track down how many teams have how many partners. You hear about celebrity ownership all the time. Tom Brady is about to become a part owner.

 

Private equity may be the future, investors are now and have been for a while. 

 

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-fbn-dolphins-estefans-062509-2009jun25-story.html

 

.

Edited April 24 by Augie

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

13 years of sucking and being the development team for the rest of the NHL.  .  And the response is a PR stunt head coach.  I don't think Pegula has it in him to do right by the team or the fans. So if that's what happens, so be it.

 

Hiring Lindy might have had a nostalgia component but he's no "stunt." He had success in New Jersey and Dallas. He was on the staff that won Canada the gold medal at Sochi. He's ranks 5th in all time coaching wins. He's going to drastically change the locker room culture.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Partners exist all over the league, it’s just not worth my time to track down how many teams have how many partners. You hear about celebrity ownership all the time. Tom Brady is about to become a part owner.

 

Private equity may be the future, investors are now and have been for a while. 

 

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-fbn-dolphins-estefans-062509-2009jun25-story.html

 

.

 

There have been teams with minority share owners for a while yes (Miami, for example).  More famously the Commanders now.

 

But outside of family members sharing ownership, partner owners in the NFL are still the exception by a wide margin.

[SoCal Deek]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Hiring Lindy might have had a nostalgia component but he's no "stunt." He had success in New Jersey and Dallas. He was on the staff that won Canada the gold medal at Sochi. He's ranks 5th in all time coaching wins. He's going to drastically change the locker room culture.

Didn’t the Sabres hire Scotty Bowman a few decades ago? Feels an awful lot like that to me. 

[PromoTheRobot]

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Didn’t the Sabres hire Scotty Bowman a few decades ago? Feels an awful lot like that to me. 

 

Teams rehiring old coaches happens in the NHL. Claude Julien and Paul Maurice are two examples. Lindy might have the record for longest gap: 11 years.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Teams rehiring old coaches happens in the NHL. Claude Julien and Paul Maurice are two examples. Lindy might have the record for longest gap: 11 years.

That’s definitely true, but so is my observation. 😉

[Mike in Horseheads]

Laura Pegula was at presser yesterday with Terry. I wonder if she will get involved more in the business.

[Bockeye]

On 4/23/2024 at 9:23 AM, Bruffalo said:

Relativism and whataboutism is not a good way to form an argument, but I'll indulge just because I'm bored. 

 

The world's poorest of the poor live on around $2.15 a day, or $785 a year. Let's say that the average Buffalo household is pulling in 78k, which is around the national median. So the average Buffaloian is pulling about 100x a year what someone in South Sudan is making.  Big difference, sure.

 

Bezos net worth increased 77 billion dollars last year. That's 1,000,000x times the average Buffaloian salary. The average Buffaloian is much closer to the earning potential of someone in South Sudan than they are Jeff Bezos, it's an incomprehensible amount of wealth. 

 

Now you might be tempted to say, "That's not just income, that's also his capital assets appreciating", which is true. Well let's take in the median net worth of Americans (I can't quickly find the median net worth of specifically Buffaloians, but it's probably lower than the median), $192,700.  What Bezos earned on just appreciating assets and salary is roughly 500,000x the net worth of the median American, the culmination of their assets and debts for their entire life.

 

You don't get to that point without the manipulation of laws, regulations, and the exploitation of labor. I have no problem with rich people, I'm far from some communist, but when there's someone who made in one year that would take an average person 100,000x lifetimes to earn is obscene. You simply cannot be hoarding that kind of wealth and still be a moral person in modern society. 

We are probably closer in agreement than both of us may have assumed ( or maybe just me). It’s only your last comment where I digress- “you simply cannot be hoarding that kind of wealth and still be a moral person”.  I can’t make the jump that he has done something immoral and/or illegal. Show me that evidence and I’m there. 
 

I 100% believe in capitalism and it’s benefits, but where it has gone off the tracks is corruption and we have away too much of that, esp with politicians and business. 
 

I personally know a lot of “wealthy” individuals who are not corrupt and have done enormous amounts of good to not label wealthy as “bad”. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

Wait until this ***** is on the blockchain. Get your Bills tokens. 

[CodeMonkey]

On 4/23/2024 at 9:17 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Hiring Lindy might have had a nostalgia component but he's no "stunt." He had success in New Jersey and Dallas. He was on the staff that won Canada the gold medal at Sochi. He's ranks 5th in all time coaching wins. He's going to drastically change the locker room culture.

3 out of the last 8 seasons in the playoffs isn't exactly stellar, particularly when you consider he had more player talent to work with there than here.  However, it is 3 more times than the Sabres made the playoffs during that time period.

 

And there are a lot of hard core fans excited by the hire expecting "drastically change the locker room culture" as you do which helps sales and general fan morale.  

Plus it's hard to argue the move isn't an upgrade.  But it's also hard for me to believe it makes a big difference to the team overall and isn't only a short term, primarily feel good, Band-Aid. 

Edited April 26 by CodeMonkey