The Dark Horse WR on the Roster (Beane made reference to guys on the roster elevating their play)

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 hours ago, somnus00 said:

This management team is too smart to give Khalil Shakir the Josh Reed treatment.

 

Blast from the past! What was the Josh Reed treatment? Honestly curious what you are hinting at with regards to Josh Reed. I recall, if memory is correct, Reed had a pretty good rookie season and then did practically nothing with the Bills or any other team after. 

 

I think what a lot of folks are weary of is Beane expecting Shakir to keep up his level of play in an increased role only to have him fall short of expectations. Fans of course or weary due to Davis never taking that next step a lot of us thought he would. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

What a reference.  Steve Largent was amazing Hondo.  As solid of a technician at receiver as I can remember.  Wow other than Jerry Rice, who was really better for that long a period?  Maybe Larry Fitzgerald?  

Isabella is really small, and didn’t seem to do much when he returned kicks.  Look at Harty last year.  He made one play(albeit a big play).  It’s not a small man’s game.  You need speed.  But you need some size otherwise you get swallowed up.  Very few Darron Sproles in the NFL. 

 

I think Shorter may have some juice.  He has size.  But can he accelerate is the question.  Hopefully he is not James Hardy. 

 

Ravens double dipped on small speed receivers. First Marquise Brown, whom they ultimately fell out of love with and then they replaced him with Zay Flowers. TBD on Zay Flowers. 

[Thrivefourfive]

16 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

With Josh throwing to him instead of Taylor Heineke and Sam Howell, Curtis Samuel will probably up his production a few notches.   Amazing how Beane thinks highly enough about a guy who runs a 4.3 sec  40 and pays him $10m per year, but Bills fans simply ignore the move.  Fans of this team crack me up.  

Who’s ignoring? He’s flashed. He’s talented. He’s always hurt. He can’t be counted on. This is the time of year when there’s not much fan faith in the weak and wobbly veteran on his third team for three years $24M.

 

I think the fans are treating him just right right now. Excited and very nervous. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Samuel is by far the best guy we have right now, which isn’t saying much. I assume we take a guy round 1. Probably even move way up to get one of the 2 best guys. Then take another guy round 2 or 3. Then it will be

Rd1 rookie

Samuel

Shakir

Rd 2/3 rookie

1 of the other fringe guys currently on the roster

 

Thats what we will have at WR. Plus you have to figure Kinkaid is basically the number 2 option in the passing game. And the way Brady was last year, the RBs are going to get a ton of targets. I’d like to see a veteran brought in on a prove it deal. Micheal Thomas or Obj but I’m starting to feel like that is a big ask financially. Also a trade for a real #1/1a would be nice but again, the money might not be there. I’m starting to think like we take 2 guys early and trust our guys to develop.

[bills6969]

Hamler.  Speedster-  I think he might be the fastest guy we have on the team.  He never really got it going in Denver but  Drew Lock was his QB.  Interested to see how he performs with an elite QB.

[Kaenon]

Forgot about Shavers. He's cool.

I'm a Shorter fan, but that hammy concerns me - we'll see!

[Beck Water]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:06 PM, GETTOTHE50 said:

Khalil should have a breakout year. Atleast 1k yards. 

 

That would be grand

 

1 hour ago, Kaenon said:

Forgot about Shavers. He's cool.

I'm a Shorter fan, but that hammy concerns me - we'll see!

 

Yeah, it's possible he had a problem that never healed correctly all through college, and the Bills had him get a procedure and then go through a long process to break down the scar tissue and really "get it right" - we rebuilt him so he is stronger, faster, better in effect.  IDK

Edited April 20 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Who’s ignoring? He’s flashed. He’s talented. He’s always hurt. He can’t be counted on. This is the time of year when there’s not much fan faith in the weak and wobbly veteran on his third team for three years $24M.

 

I think the fans are treating him just right right now. Excited and very nervous. 

 

I'll cop to it.  I tend to omit Samuel when thinking about the WR room.  Not sure why.  Possibly because Beane's last 2 mid-tier FA WR acquisitions (Hardy and Crowder) didn't work out for us, for different reasons.  Me Bad.

 

Factually, though, I think you're significantly misrepresenting Samuel's availability/injury history.  He's missed significant time in 1 of the last 5 seasons
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SamuCu00.htm

2019: 16 games

2020: 15 games
2021: injured most of season

2022: 17 games

2023: 16 games

 

Where is this "weak and wobbly" "always hurt" coming from?

[somnus00]

16 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Blast from the past! What was the Josh Reed treatment? Honestly curious what you are hinting at with regards to Josh Reed. I recall, if memory is correct, Reed had a pretty good rookie season and then did practically nothing with the Bills or any other team after. 

 

I think what a lot of folks are weary of is Beane expecting Shakir to keep up his level of play in an increased role only to have him fall short of expectations. Fans of course or weary due to Davis never taking that next step a lot of us thought he would. 

That's exactly it. Josh Reed showed promise, and that Bills team thrust him into the WR1 position when he was, generously, a WR2 or most likely a WR3.

[njbuff]

Martin Nance. 

[Beck Water]

21 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Blast from the past! What was the Josh Reed treatment? Honestly curious what you are hinting at with regards to Josh Reed. I recall, if memory is correct, Reed had a pretty good rookie season and then did practically nothing with the Bills or any other team after. 

 

I think what a lot of folks are weary of is Beane expecting Shakir to keep up his level of play in an increased role only to have him fall short of expectations. Fans of course or weary due to Davis never taking that next step a lot of us thought he would. 

 

Did you mean "wary of"?  

 

I think that's exactly right.  I believe Shakir is a very good player with a lot of promise, and should take another step this season and be used more than he was.  I believe the same of Kincaid.  But I still think to be a top passing team, we need a guy whose natural skillset aligns with playing outside, on the boundary.

 

And I'm wary of Beane when he says things that align with what he said before the 2019 season, when he told us we'd kind of fill the #1 role by committee.  It worked well enough for 10 wins, but we could easily have had several more if we'd had a player who was a natural match for the boundary role, instead of asking 5'11 John Brown to bring in 50/50 balls or get off press man and Robert Foster to be our deep threat.

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 4/19/2024 at 4:34 PM, Ralonzo said:

 

Leggette is a real wildcard. Brugler has a 3rd on him, but with the caveat that if a team looks at his tape and sees DK Metcalf they might use a 1.

 

Roman Wilson, I do like him, I just view him as a duplication of skills to Shakir in how you'd have to deploy him, i.e. mainly from the slot. The Bills already have the proven commodity there, that's not the hole on their WR corps.

 

There's a scenario and I think it's likely where you get 5 or more WR getting tabbed before 28, in which case you'd likely have a QB or 2 (Penix, Nix) dropping to the bottom of Round 1, and there's incentive for a team to pack a few picks to jump up for 1) their QB and 2) the 5th year option in case the QB hits. Or, maybe there's an OT run and a team has just one guy left they are interested in and wants to lock it up.

 

On the Rich Hill charts, the following teams are well positioned to offer proper value to move up to 28:

 

1) LV with #44, #77, #112 (there ain't a QB who's there at 13 who's worth it, but they're the Raiders, who knows)

2) ATL with #43, #74, #79, #109 (boy I'd love this one)

3) CAR with #33, #39, #65, #101 (if they don't believe in Bryce Young, and they shouldn't)

4) WAS with #36, #40, #67 and #78 (if they don't go QB at #2)

5) NE at #34 and #68 (if they go MHJ at #3)

 

Atlanta makes a ton of sense if they see a QB they want at 28. The Bills swapping #28, #128 and #204 is a dead-nuts-on value match for #43, #74 and #109. Add in #60 and the Bills can chalk off 4 positions from among their needs: WR, S, Edge, DT, OT.

That makes sense about Wilson.  We need guys on the outside.  I am impressed with your permutations on draft trades.  Getting all of Washington's picks looks real nice.  I am not crazy about taking an OT unless we are not planning on extending Spencer Brown.  (Hopefully he continues to improve)  I hope we take 2 good WR's and D linemen with potential.  Beane will likely make some moves.  That is just his nature.

[Don Otreply]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:25 AM, CaptnCoke11 said:

Kincaid is going to be the #1 option in this offense.  People are making too big of deal of this #1 receiver stuff.  Yeah we need another WR but it doesn’t need to be a 150 target type receiver 

True, but we do need a couple of “ boundary” receivers, unless you count Shorter and that other guy who’s name evades me presently…, 

[Don Otreply]

On 4/20/2024 at 10:28 AM, Beck Water said:

 

That would be grand

 

 

Yeah, it's possible he had a problem that never healed correctly all through college, and the Bills had him get a procedure and then go through a long process to break down the scar tissue and really "get it right" - we rebuilt him so he is stronger, faster, better in effect.  IDK

🤞

[Ayjent]

The WRs in the OP are borderline NFL talent.  They could be good role players if they develop chemistry on the offense but they aren’t WR1s or WR2s waiting in the wings. They need to be looking to replace one of the most productive receivers in the NFL with Diggs and a productive No. 2 in Davis. Davis is replaceable and Samuel probably has met that need but the gaping hole is Diggs; production. Worthy from Texas ain’t that guy, Franklin ain’t that guy, Coleman ain’t that guy.  I think the Bills are realistically looking at Thomas Jr, Mitchell, and Legette as targets if they stay put, knowing Thomas Jr is a long shot, Mitchell might be there, and Legette might be a reach.  I also think they may have to pay a ransom if they want to move up.

[Nephilim17]

I think the "dark horse" is Samuels. People talk like we need a number one and number two WR but I think Samuels will be a productive number two for the next couple years.