What do you think of when you see this pic?

[Draconator]

It is what it is

[Success]

Crybaby.

 

[msw2112]

Like most of us here, I've had enough of Mahomes and the Chiefs.  If the Bills aren't going to win it, I'd like to see a new team take the title.  Similar to when the Patriots were a dynasty, it's boring for fans when one team wins every year.  It's even worse when that one team regularly knocks your team out of the playoffs.  Add on all the commercials (State Farm, Subway, etc.) and I've grown tired of Mahomes, even off the field.  His wife is not the most attractive (but has a KILLER physique) and his brother is an all-time tool.   To the extent I can ignore and avoid this stuff, I do.

 

All that said, Mahomes and the Chiefs have earned the right to be in the spotlight.  They're the champs and are a mini-dynasty.  If the Bills could win multiple Super Bowls, you'd see Josh Allen and others in the same types of media.

Edited April 16 by msw2112

[julian]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You do know that before Patrick Mahomes started, Tony Dungy opined on national TV something like

     "the Kansas City Chiefs may win a Superbowl...but it won't be with Andy Reid as their Head Coach"

 

The narrative about Reid has changed quite a lot during the last 6 seasons of his 25 year HC career.

 

 

Sure if you haven’t actually watched football the last 30 years and hadn’t paid attention to Reid’s career then you might fall victim to narrative.

 

 Reid has been an outstanding HC his entire career, and is one of the games greatest offensive minds. It’s ok to point out the VERY lucky situation Mahomes fell into, while also acknowledging he’s the of the most talented QBs of all time.

 

Both can be true, and both are true.

[Just Jack]

Eh, who cares. 

[Your Brown Eye]

I feel like if it was Josh Allen people would have a hard-on over it. So I can imagine that is what the Chiefs fans are doing/feeling.

[Mikie2times]

Nothing...it's deserved. 

[Einstein]

Josh Allen would own us if he was on the Chiefs and we had Mahomes.

QB is not why we are 0-3 against the Chiefs in the playoffs.

[90sBills]

56 minutes ago, julian said:

This dude lucked into 2 future HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC

 

Allen lucked into McDermott.

Part of being a sports fan is recognizing greatness even when that greatness isn’t on your team. Otherwise one can be perceived as being a sore loser. 

[julian]

8 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Part of being a sports fan is recognizing greatness even when that greatness isn’t on your team. Otherwise one can be perceived as being a sore loser. 

Yeah if you look up 4 or 5 posts I clearly recognize his greatness, but if you refuse to add context because it’s doesn’t suit your narrative, one can be deceived as being a right fighter.

Edited April 16 by julian

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

You do know that before Patrick Mahomes started, Tony Dungy opined on national TV something like

     "the Kansas City Chiefs may win a Superbowl...but it won't be with Andy Reid as their Head Coach"

 

The narrative about Reid has changed quite a lot during the last 6 seasons of his 25 year HC career.

 

 

Reid was good enough to win one back before Mahomes, though. It was mostly bad luck. He went to 4 straight championship games and then finally got to a Super Bowl with McNabb. And then went to another Championship game a few years later with McNabb also. He goes to KC and gets Alex Smith, has success with him as well getting to the playoffs every year. Mahomes finally did get him over the edge but Reid was good enough to win a Super Bowl before him. He just needed the little extra QB talent to carry him over that final hurdle. It's not like Belichick who did nothing in his career when Brady wasn't his QB

Edited April 16 by Buffalo03

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, julian said:

Sure if you haven’t actually watched football the last 30 years and hadn’t paid attention to Reid’s career then you might fall victim to narrative.

 

 Reid has been an outstanding HC his entire career, and is one of the games greatest offensive minds. It’s ok to point out the VERY lucky situation Mahomes fell into, while also acknowledging he’s the of the most talented QBs of all time.

 

Both can be true, and both are true.

 

The point is that people who actually watch football and have actually watched it for 30 years and paid attention saw that Andy Reid was a HC in Philly for 14 years, with 1 NFC championship/Super Bowl loss to show for it.  His QB through much of that time was #2 overall pick, Donovan McNabb.    He also had Shady McCoy for 4 of those years.   He had 9 winning seasons and 9 playoff exits.  The NARRATIVE emerging from those people who actually watch football and have actually watched Andy Reid for 14 years, was that he couldn't "seal the deal" and take a team "over the hump" all the way to the championship.

 

Then he took over in KC with former #1 pick Alex Smith, who had shown he could win in SF.  Again, for 5 years, he was HC with a lot of talent - Hunt, Hill, Kelce, Smith - and the team had winning seasons, but didn't get to a conference championship or win a superbowl, leading to the NARRATIVE emerging from those people who actually watch football and actually watched the Andy Reid-coached Chiefs, was that maybe he still couldn't "seal the deal" and take a team all the way to a championship.

 

Now he has Patrick Mahomes, 2 conference championships, 4 Superbowl appearances, 3 wins, and we're talking about how he's one of the game's greatest offensive minds and a "very lucky" situation Mahomes "fell into" with a 1st ballot HOF coach.

 

My point is, while he was regarded as a very good coach before Mahomes, none of the rest of those labels were being applied to him.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, julian said:

This dude lucked into 2 future HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC

 

 

 

You got it backwards.    They were good without Mahomes.   They became great because of Mahomes.   Nobody was saying HOF with regard to those guys before Mahomes got there.  

 

Not even Andy Reid........who was one of the great choke artists in playoff history.   He had blown a 28 point lead and an 18 point lead in the playoffs as Chiefs HC. (In fact, he owns 3 of the 4 biggest blown leads in Chiefs 65 year history and all were in the playoffs).  His time was running out in KC before Mahomes arrived and changed the narrative.

 

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Reid was good enough to win one back before Mahomes, though. It was mostly bad luck. He went to 4 straight championship games and then finally got to a Super Bowl with McNabb. And then went to another Championship game a few years later with McNabb also. He goes to KC and gets Alex Smith, has success with him as well getting to the playoffs every year. Mahomes finally did get him over the edge but Reid was good enough to win a Super Bowl before him. He just needed the little extra QB talent to carry him over that final hurdle. It's not like Belichick who did nothing in his career when Brady wasn't his QB

 

So tell me - what's your take on McDermott?  Is he good enough to win one, with mostly bad luck?  He's had 2 playoff losses against the eventual conf. champs and 1 conf. champ loss?  How do you decide what is "bad luck" (injuries to key players, maybe 1-2 penalty calls that don't go your way or a mistake), and what is "not good enough", and be sure it isn't "hindsight bias" now that Reid has achieved what he has with Mahomes in KC?

 

'Cuz at the time, I can promise there were plenty in Philly and elsewhere in the league who weren't saying "Reid is good enough to win one, it's mostly bad luck".

[Success]

So, this turned into another Mahomes & KC worship thread.

 

Cool.

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You got it backwards.    They were good without Mahomes.   They became great because of Mahomes.   Nobody was saying HOF with regard to those guys before Mahomes got there.  

 

Not even Andy Reid........who was one of the great choke artists in playoff history.   He had blown a 28 point lead and an 18 point lead in the playoffs as Chiefs HC. (In fact, he owns 3 of the 4 biggest blown leads in Chiefs 65 year history and all were in the playoffs).  His time was running out in KC before Mahomes arrived and changed the narrative.

 

I don't know that Andy Reid was, in fact, one of the great choke artists in playoff history (I suspect there are plenty of which I know naught), but I know for a fact that there were a sizeable number of Eagles fans and NFL football cognoscenti who felt like he was - who felt like he'd had enough talent to win and had failed to get 'er done in Philly. 

And then, as you note, there was that 38-10 lead which resulted in a 44-45 loss in 2014; the 21-3 lead that became a 22-21 loss to the Titans in 2017, and the 2 leads/tie that becamse a conf. champ loss in 2018.  During that time, his play design, play calling, and on-field decision making were all heavily criticized - not just by fans, but by guys who've forgotten more football than I'll ever know (like Tony Dungy)

 

My moral of the story is, the coach isn't good enough to get you there, until he is. 

 

That's not to say McDermott is good enough - I don't know whether he is or isn't. 

 

But there's this hindsight-bourne notion that Andy Reid was always "good enough to win one" as a HC in Philly and a HC in KC before Mahomes (and even Mahomes 2nd year in the league), and it's just re-writing history.

 

 

Edited April 17 by Beck Water

[DeepPass]

Silly!  In reality it's just a sport that makes a lot of $

[julian]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

The point is that people who actually watch football and have actually watched it for 30 years and paid attention saw that Andy Reid was a HC in Philly for 14 years, with 1 NFC championship/Super Bowl loss to show for it.  His QB through much of that time was #2 overall pick, Donovan McNabb.    He also had Shady McCoy for 4 of those years.   He had 9 winning seasons and 9 playoff exits.  The NARRATIVE emerging from those people who actually watch football and have actually watched Andy Reid for 14 years, was that he couldn't "seal the deal" and take a team "over the hump" all the way to the championship.

 

Then he took over in KC with former #1 pick Alex Smith, who had shown he could win in SF.  Again, for 5 years, he was HC with a lot of talent - Hunt, Hill, Kelce, Smith - and the team had winning seasons, but didn't get to a conference championship or win a superbowl, leading to the NARRATIVE emerging from those people who actually watch football and actually watched the Andy Reid-coached Chiefs, was that maybe he still couldn't "seal the deal" and take a team all the way to a championship.

 

Now he has Patrick Mahomes, 2 conference championships, 4 Superbowl appearances, 3 wins, and we're talking about how he's one of the game's greatest offensive minds and a "very lucky" situation Mahomes "fell into" with a 1st ballot HOF coach.

 

My point is, while he was regarded as a very good coach before Mahomes, none of the rest of those labels were being applied to him.

 

You’re arguing that Andy Reid isn’t an excellent HC , a HOF HC who’s light years ahead of McDermott, which was the point I made with my original response to the question about the picture, it was in fun, but nothing I said wasn’t true.

 

 I made a factual statement, Mahomes lucked his way into 2 HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC, while Allen lucked into McDermott.

 

 I’ll stand by that.

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You got it backwards.    They were good without Mahomes.   They became great because of Mahomes.   Nobody was saying HOF with regard to those guys before Mahomes got there.  

 

Not even Andy Reid........who was one of the great choke artists in playoff history.   He had blown a 28 point lead and an 18 point lead in the playoffs as Chiefs HC. (In fact, he owns 3 of the 4 biggest blown leads in Chiefs 65 year history and all were in the playoffs).  His time was running out in KC before Mahomes arrived and changed the narrative.

 

You are serious, I can tell lol, there’s no reasoning with this take my goodness lol

 

if people actually believe Mahomes hasn’t benefited from a great situation compared to what Allen was blessed with.. There’s nothing else to say lol

Edited April 17 by julian

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, julian said:

You’re arguing that Andy Reid isn’t an excellent HC , a HOF HC who’s light years ahead of McDermott, which was the point I made with my original response to the question about the picture, it was in fun, but nothing I said wasn’t true.

 

 I made a factual statement, Mahomes lucked his way into 2 HOF pass catchers and a HOF offensive HC, while Allen lucked into McDermott.

 

 I’ll stand by that.

 

You can say anything you like, and stand by anything you like, but you need to bring some receipts to show that Andy Reid was regarded as a HOF offensive HC before Mahomes.  

 

Same with Kelce and Hill - they were regarded as talented, but factually Kelce had 1 - 1000+ yd season in 4 years before Mahomes was drafted.  That ain't the Highway to the Hall.   Similar with Hill - his rookie year, before Mahomes was drafted, 61 receptions for 595 yds.  They both had good years while Mahomes was 'watching and learning' on the bench his rookie season, but a single 1183 yd, 75 reception season for Hill and 2 1000+ yd seasons in 5 years does not make a HOF receiver.  

 

It's a bit of a strange "Hill to die on" for making your "factual statement" stake

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You can say anything you like, and stand by anything you like, but you need to bring some receipts to show that Andy Reid was regarded as a HOF offensive HC before Mahomes.  

 

Same with Kelce and Hill - they were regarded as talented, but factually Kelce had 1 - 1000+ yd season in 4 years before Mahomes was drafted.  That ain't the Highway to the Hall.   Similar with Hill - his rookie year, before Mahomes was drafted, 61 receptions for 595 yds.  They both had good years while Mahomes was 'watching and learning' on the bench his rookie season, but a single 1183 yd, 75 reception season for Hill and 2 1000+ yd seasons in 5 years does not make a HOF receiver.  

 

It's a bit of a strange "Hill to die on" for making your "factual statement" stake

This is wrong

Kelce was on HoF trajectory before playing w Mahomes