Odds are WR position after draft will still be more of question then the answer desired

[Big Turk]

This is true and while Diggs may have been declining over the course of the last half of the season, he STILL was drawing the #1 CB most times to line up against him...now the other WR's will have to deal with that instead of having a buffer.

Edited April 11 by Big Turk

[corta765]

15 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I would like to see the Bills take at least a couple flyers on FA through training camp.

 

I'm making my way through the list of FA WR still available.  I'd like to see us try out a younger guy (27-29) who has had at least 1 - 1000+ yd season in his past, and who has quite possibly been hampered by living through poor QB play.

 

Anyone stand out to you?  I'm kind of interested in DJ Chark, though I don't have the whole scoop on his injury history and why he fell off

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/available/

 

Honestly I think if the board kind of falls as predicted where BT would be gone before we can get him I would trade back to try and have at least 3 2nds/3rd and draft two WRs there AND maybe even take a flyer on Chark or even ODB for a year. I really would prefer a to insulate the position as much as possible. I just don't see the Bills getting a proven established WR OR one of the Top 3 WRs so to me you need to take a few guys and hope maybe one turns out while having a proven guy also to step up.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, corta765 said:

Honestly I think if the board kind of falls as predicted where BT would be gone before we can get him I would trade back to try and have at least 3 2nds/3rd and draft two WRs there AND maybe even take a flyer on Chark or even ODB for a year. I really would prefer a to insulate the position as much as possible. I just don't see the Bills getting a proven established WR OR one of the Top 3 WRs so to me you need to take a few guys and hope maybe one turns out while having a proven guy also to step up.

 

My guess is that Beane has all kinds of contingencies modeled and possibly planned, from a mild trade-up to a trade-back

[corta765]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Whomever the Bills draft won’t have to be the “savior.”  Between Kincaid, Cook, Samuel and Shakir, the Bills already have 4 good targets.  Plus Knox and Hollins, who, while not primary targets, are perfectly capable of making 20-30 catches (or more in Knox’s case) next season.  This means the cupboard is by no means bare.  If the rookie WR proves capable, then so much the better.  
 

Right now we can put in ink Shakir, Samuel and Hollins as part of the WR room next season.  This leaves 2-3 open jobs.  I suspect Beane will carry 6 wideouts next season vs the 5 from last year.  One job will go to the early rd WR pick.  The other job(s) will go to whomever management likes between Shorter, (hopefully) another draft pick, Hamler, and/or Isabella.  
 

 

I am hoping that the WR corp can be like 2019 where Beasley and Brown came in and gave established solid production. Thing with that is Smoke still went for 1000 yds  6 TDs which for a rookie would be pretty impressive. But if between two rookies shakir samuel kincaid the end of year stat line is this I am happy with it (no order of who):

75 rec 925 yds 6 TDs

69 rec 855 yds 5 TDs

50 rec 625 yds 7 TD

47 rec 565 yds 3 TD

43 rec 510 yds  4 TDs

3480 yds 25 TDs

 

That isn't including Knox or RB etc.. but something like that would be solid even without a 1000 yd guy or anyone over 80 rec

[BillsVet]

21 minutes ago, corta765 said:

I am hoping that the WR corp can be like 2019 where Beasley and Brown came in and gave established solid production. Thing with that is Smoke still went for 1000 yds  6 TDs which for a rookie would be pretty impressive. But if between two rookies shakir samuel kincaid the end of year stat line is this I am happy with it (no order of who):

75 rec 925 yds 6 TDs

69 rec 855 yds 5 TDs

50 rec 625 yds 7 TD

47 rec 565 yds 3 TD

43 rec 510 yds  4 TDs

3480 yds 25 TDs

 

That isn't including Knox or RB etc.. but something like that would be solid even without a 1000 yd guy or anyone over 80 rec

 

Josh 2019 wasn't Josh 2020-present, but the game that stands out which goes against this idea was against Baltimore late in 2019.   Buffalo's WR depth was Brown, miscast as a WR1 and Beasley as their slot guy.  Late in the 4th quarter on a 4th and 8, Brown was matched up 1:1 versus Marcus Peters and couldn't make the catch.  Bills lost 24-17.  Similar issues surfaced against Houston in the WC game a few weeks later.  Bills' offense lacked the receivers to score when they needed.  This prompted the trade for Diggs, but since then they've expended little in UFA or higher draft picks. 

 

In fact, Buffalo hasn't drafted a receiver worth re-signing among all the home-grown guys they've retained.  That this could happen in the passing era is an indication something's amiss with how they value the position. 

 

The more if's and hopefully's you've got heading into the season, the less likely things will work out.   

[corta765]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Josh 2019 wasn't Josh 2020-present, but the game that stands out which goes against this idea was against Baltimore late in 2019.   Buffalo's WR depth was Brown, miscast as a WR1 and Beasley as their slot guy.  Late in the 4th quarter on a 4th and 8, Brown was matched up 1:1 versus Marcus Peters and couldn't make the catch.  Bills lost 24-17.  Similar issues surfaced against Houston in the WC game a few weeks later.  Bills' offense lacked the receivers to score when they needed.  This prompted the trade for Diggs, but since then they've expended little in UFA or higher draft picks. 

 

In fact, Buffalo hasn't drafted a receiver worth re-signing among all the home-grown guys they've retained.  That this could happen in the passing era is an indication something's amiss with how they value the position. 

 

The more if's and hopefully's you've got heading into the season, the less likely things will work out.   

 

1000% agree and it is why drafting 2 WRs  rnds 2-3 along with adding a Chalk or even ODB seems like the only real way to eliminate some of those IFs and Hopefullys. Hinging on a single rookie seems really dangerous production wise. Either you have an elite talent or 2 to beat a great opponent OR you have enough truly good talent that it is pick your poison when they look at your offense. As currently constructed the Bills have neither on offense, you cannot count on someone emerging. I think Shakir Kincaid Cook offered a ton to like, but realistically you need either a blue chip WR the way Diggs was or two more guys to move the needle the way we hope.

[BuffaloMatt]

23 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I love me some Propofol.  I get some next Thursday to put me out before my 4 hour lumbar fusion.

I am really thinking they take 2. I bet it's Franklin and Tez Walker.  As much research as they have done on them, I wouldn't be shocked if we took both.

Good luck

[Starr Almighty]

Would anyone Trade the 2nd we got for Diggs and a 5th for Tee Higgins and then trade up for Brain Thomas? I think I'd do this.

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Can't make chicken salad from chicken *****.

KC has an all time great at TE and Andy Reid at HC.

 

The bills....do not 

Cheer up just a little bit, it’s not all doom and gloom as your posts seem to insinuate, you sound like you feel Josh Allen has no capacity to continue to be a really good QB, why is that? 

[Nephilim17]

Not worried. We may have a top-5 tight end at some point in the season. Samuels and Shakir are decent in their roles. We have a Cook who will be better catching this year, I'm calling it (productive college career backs this up) and Knox. Draft a traits guy in the first or second and we'll be ok.

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, NewEra said:

It’s not only a major mistake, but it’s a major mistake.  He’s not worth even close to that amount of money. 

 

 

 

Nah. That just doesn't make sense, it just doesn't.

 

It's his market value. It's what they think he's worth. It's just in the area predicted for him.

 

Like it or not, he's been a productive WR. He has appeared to be a somewhat below average #2, who gives value beyond his production with excellent blocking and leadership and locker room presence.

 

This is what his market value is. It's what he was expected to get and he got it because that's his worth.

 

Could it turn out to be a bad deal? Sure. Or a good one. My guess is he'll continue to be a productive guy, at roughly his current level, making 700 - 900 yards, maybe even up to a thousand in a good year. And that will mean he'll live up to his contract. It won't be a bad contract unless he's only a #3. Which could happen, but there's no particular reason to think it will.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Cheer up just a little bit, it’s not all doom and gloom as your posts seem to insinuate, you sound like you feel Josh Allen has no capacity to continue to be a really good QB, why is that? 

 

I think he's good, but lacks the drive to greatness.  it's a key distinctive.

 

[Don Otreply]

34 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I think he's good, but lacks the drive to greatness.  it's a key 

and you know this how? 

[NewEra]

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. That just doesn't make sense, it just doesn't.

 

It's his market value. It's what they think he's worth. It's just in the area predicted for him.

 

Like it or not, he's been a productive WR. He has appeared to be a somewhat below average #2, who gives value beyond his production with excellent blocking and leadership and locker room presence.

 

This is what his market value is. It's what he was expected to get and he got it because that's his worth.

 

Could it turn out to be a bad deal? Sure. Or a good one. My guess is he'll continue to be a productive guy, at roughly his current level, making 700 - 900 yards, maybe even up to a thousand in a good year. And that will mean he'll live up to his contract. It won't be a bad contract unless he's only a #3. Which could happen, but there's no particular reason to think it will.

Right, just like star Lotulelei had a market value of 5 years 50M and Jonnu Smith had a market value of 4 years 50M we could go on for hours about players

not living up to their contracts.  

 

there’s plenty of reason to think he won’t live up to his contract.  He’ll have inferior QB play; he has chronically injured feet; he has a career catch rate of 54%; we won’t be playing opposite an all pro WR;  he wasn’t signed to be their WR2, he was signed to be their WR3 …..and then Ridley spurned the jags to sign with the titans.  

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

and you know this how? 

all anecdotal, and my opinion

 

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Right, just like star Lotulelei had a market value of 5 years 50M and Jonnu Smith had a market value of 4 years 50M we could go on for hours about players

not living up to their contracts.  

 

there’s plenty of reason to think he won’t live up to his contract.  He’ll have inferior QB play; he has chronically injured feet; he has a career catch rate of 54%; we won’t be playing opposite an all pro WR;  he wasn’t signed to be their WR2, he was signed to be their WR3 …..and then Ridley spurned the jags to sign with the titans.  

 

 

 

 

Um, yes. It is indeed "right." You think you're making a point, but it's mine.

 

Yes, Lotulelei's market value was what he got. More, it was a decent value for the Bills for the first two years until he first took the year off to avoid Covid and then caught Covid and saw it destroy his ability to play football. That's how the market works. You get market value. That's how you know what your market value is, it's what you are predicted to get and if that's confirmed by the actual contract, then yeah, dude, that's the guy's market value.

 

And you think Trevor Lawrence is going to give the Jags "inferior QB play?" Um, yeah, OK. Right!

 

And no, no particular reason to think Gabe won't live up to his contract. It could happen. Or not. He could just as easily overperform as underperform. Yes, there are examples of guys underperforming. Thinking that an example of a guy underperforming his contract somehow reflects particularly on Gabe Davis is just purely ridiculous.

 

Yeah, Gabe's had foot problems. Yet he was solidly productive in spite of that. Same with his career catch rate, he's been quite productive regardless, making a ton of impact plays on relatively limited targets. He gets mostly downfield targets and those always have lower completion percentages, they're harder throws.

 

Ridley spurning the Jags could and should mean more targets for Gabe.

 

 

Edited April 12 by Thurman#1

[Bill from NYC]

On 4/10/2024 at 4:25 PM, corta765 said:

Mock drafts, media analysis, bills fans, etc.. everyone has the Bills doing things to address the WR position with Diggs leaving and the larger hole that is now created. Realistically outside of a trade for a Aiyuk or Tee Higgins type player where it is established WR with a track record of production, the WR position will be a question and probably still an area of concern. Even if the Bills move up to draft one of the big three WRs there will be a question of immediate production and adjustment to the NFL. If the Bills move back and draft 2 WRs in rounds 2-3 your at least initially expectation wise at a lower starting point compared to one of the big three guys. The production Diggs had given even with the drop the back half of the season and the now loss of him and Davis production also is going to be a question for everyone and those stepping in. 

 

Is there a scenario for you that makes you comfortable with the position moving forward?

It depends. If McDermott is serious about the WR position, there would seem to be enough quality receivers in this draft to make a difference. If he decides to focus more on defense (a distinct possibility imo) then yes; we will almost certainly be lacking yet again at WR.  Logic tells me that he HAS to address WR often and early. History tells me that he is mostly about defernse.

 

We will find out soon enough.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, yes. It is indeed "right." You think you're making a point, but it's mine.

 

Yes, Lotulelei's market value was what he got. More, it was a decent value for the Bills for the first two years until he first took the year off to avoid Covid and then caught Covid and saw it destroy his ability to play football. That's how the market works. You get market value. That's how you know what your market value is, it's what you are predicted to get and if that's confirmed by the actual contract, then yeah, dude, that's the guy's market value.

 

And you think Trevor Lawrence is going to give the Jags "inferior QB play?" Um, yeah, OK. Right!

 

And no, no particular reason to think Gabe won't live up to his contract. It could happen. Or not. He could just as easily overperform as underperform. Yes, there are examples of guys underperforming. Thinking that an example of a guy underperforming his contract somehow reflects particularly on Gabe Davis is just purely ridiculous.

 

Yeah, Gabe's had foot problems. Yet he was solidly productive in spite of that. Same with his career catch rate, he's been quite productive regardless, making a ton of impact plays on relatively limited targets. He gets mostly downfield targets and those always have lower completion percentages, they're harder throws.

 

Ridley spurning the Jags could and should mean more targets for Gabe.

 

 

Yes, I think Trevor Lawrence’s QB play will be inferior to the QB play that got Gabe his bag of money.  
 

lots of people have reason to believe he won’t live up to his contract.  So yes, there are plenty of reasons to believe he won’t to just that.  My very positive and overly confidant jags fan buddy was furious about the signing.  
 

gabe was a huge disappointment in Buffalo the second he became WR2.  We/they/he had expectations for him and none of those expectations were met on the field other than his blocking.  Gabe misses the KC playoff game, no one talks about.  No one cares.  Half of the fans were happy he was out.  95% of the fans that watched every game of his career couldn’t wait for him to play his last game in Buffalo.  We breathed a sigh of relief when his jax signing was announced.  
 

He can thank Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs for his contract and I’ll be here to watch him not live up to it and be a free agent again in 2026 when the jags cut him after 2 seasons because of all the reasons I stated in my last post.  
 

I’m a fan of Gabe the man.  I’m a fan of Gabe the WR4/5.  I’m glad he got overpaid by and AFC contender and I’ll enjoy watching him not live up to his contract in Jax.  

[Big Turk]

MLB was a question too last year, but it was answered pretty emphatically 2 games into the season.  I wouldn't worry too much.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

and you know this how? 

I’m not saying I agree, mind you, but there’s a perception hanging around that JA isn’t exactly the hardest worker in the off season … whether you believe this or think it’s BS, the narrative is out there.