Bills Coverage Stuff that is Making me Grit my Teeth

[Steptide]

Couple things - I've never heard about Mahomes off season workouts. I know he has 2 rings, but still never heard about them.

 

I'd honestly be a bit surprised if Allen didn't have some kind of off season workouts with the new guys that have been brought in. Not just the wr's, but we have a new center too, which is a pretty important position for Allen to succeed 

 

I thought in the first half of last season, Allen was forcing the ball to diggs too much. Obviously Diggs had some really good numbers, so it wasn't necessarily bad, but I think about how both Diggs and Shakir, and maybe even Gabe, could've been more effective. Though, our 5-5 record isn't completely on the offense. The defense had some massive blunders (1st Patriots game) 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Ghs24mike said:

Was listening to Joe Marino on the Locked On Bills podcast- he had a guest on one of his most recent shows who talked about Diggs. It brought to light, with data, something that I was feeling, but couldn't put my finger on. 

 

Diggs has lost the ability to separate down the field. To be fair he was never an elite speed guy, but the data shows that past 10 yds Diggs was not getting any separation, couldnt stack DB's, etc. 

 

Long story short, the argument that Diggs was getting a ton of attention which opened the game up for everyone else down the stretch wasn't true. Sure there was the occasional missed throw by Josh, but that happens to every QB. He simply isn't the same guy he was when he came to Buffalo. 

 

If Beane makes the right moves in FA and the Draft to bring in a young receiver, with speed, I believe Josh will play even better next year than this year. 

 

He will put to bed all the arguments and the Bills will be improved on Offense. 

 

That is PRECISELY my mentality here... Diggs regressed, we got something for him, post-2024 cap relief, and restacking is in progress!

 

Everything else is just BS... he's gone, awesome, time to get back to work and show everyone like Stef and DeSean and the rest of the noisemakers we are ready to win A FIFTH straight AFC East title and finally towards winning a Super Bowl.

 

My only concern? We draft a Texas WR... our history with UT drafted players is abysmal outside of Aaron Williams.

Edited April 7 by EasternOHBillsFan

[QLBillsFan]

MM and people who don’t really follow the Bills have very generic simple opinions on Diggs getting shipped out. While the cap hit is crazy, it just tells you the production isn’t worth the drama. Bills fans know this. It’s addition by subtraction. Josh will get 2 additional rookie targets and the freedom to throw to who ever is open. No more forces or bubble screens to get Diggs going! Diggs had a great run here and the team certainly got better. But it was time, and I’m all for it! 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

1) discussion of the Bills W-L record with Allen, before and after Stefon Diggs, as though that proves Allen "needs" Diggs or Diggs "made" Allen what he is.

Look, folks, he was a raw rookie and then an improved 2nd year player, then he would have become a more improved player in 2020 whether Beane traded for Diggs or another WR or drafted Jefferson or someone else.  It was a big story in 2020 how Allen changed up his throwing motion and it helped him become more accurate.

 

2) discussion of how "Allen doesn't work in the off season" with the implication that Diggs is just out there grinding.  Meanwhile Diggs is going to fashion week in Paris, Coachella during Bills OTAs (while Allen is actually with the team in OTAs)

3) the latest is people dumping on Allen for Tim Graham's podcast revelation about the "it's only one ***** game" without the context of it being after the game, while Allen is sitting there taking the loss hard, still in his pads, and the rest of the team is coming over trying to lift him up, and whatever Diggs said wasn't reported (but Allen wasn't snapping at anyone else).

Probably more, but I'm actively trying to avoid it

 

 

 

Are people really saying any of that? Weird.

 

I mean, number 2 makes some sense. Allen clearly work, but it's fair to question how hard. I hadn't heard it compared to Diggs. I'm sure Diggs works hard on his body, as I think it's clear Allen does. Beyond that I don't think receivers have anywhere near as much work beyond keeping in shape as hard-working QBs do. A guy like Peyton Manning or Brady has insane work habits even in the offseason. I hadn't heard that about Diggs.

 

I'd seen the podcast. And while it's not the greatest thing Allen said, it's one sentence, immediately after a horrible game, and we don't know what Diggs said. To me, I don't hold that against him one bit.

[78thealltimegreat]

If you want something to back you up on this last week on One Bills Live Greg Cosell who to me is the best of the best analysts absolutely crushed Diggs in his evaluation of him and saying the Bills have been playing without a number 1 receiver for a long time. 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, Ghs24mike said:

Was listening to Joe Marino on the Locked On Bills podcast- he had a guest on one of his most recent shows who talked about Diggs. It brought to light, with data, something that I was feeling, but couldn't put my finger on. 

 

Diggs has lost the ability to separate down the field. To be fair he was never an elite speed guy, but the data shows that past 10 yds Diggs was not getting any separation, couldnt stack DB's, etc. 

 

Long story short, the argument that Diggs was getting a ton of attention which opened the game up for everyone else down the stretch wasn't true. Sure there was the occasional missed throw by Josh, but that happens to every QB. He simply isn't the same guy he was when he came to Buffalo. 

 

If Beane makes the right moves in FA and the Draft to bring in a young receiver, with speed, I believe Josh will play even better next year than this year. 

 

He will put to bed all the arguments and the Bills will be improved on Offense. 

 

I don't think the rate of clean looks was the same.

 

 

"Was not getting any separation"? "Has lost the ability to separate down the field" you say?

 

Those are major major exaggerations of what he said. You make it sound like the guy said he'd totally lost it, and that's not at all what he said.

 

Brett Whitefild did have some criticism of Diggs. He said, "You do see a slightly decliing player. I still think he's a fine player. Probably not worth his paycheck anymore, though." Around 6:15

 

Joe asked why there was such a statistical regression later in the year. He replied that "Diggs wasn't winning vertically the same way you're used to." Said even during the hot start the efficiency numbers anything beyond ten yards was not great. "I don't think he has the speed to stack DBs anymore, or get in their blindspot. You're paying him to be a 3-level player. He wasn't playing with that efficiency anymore."

 

He continued, "Great in the red zone still, that's one of his strengths, ... but ability to win vertically really declined, and I think that's kind of what set this whole thing in motion."

 

Joe asked, "How much of that is Josh Allen? I feel like, some of those vertical shots, Josh missed him. ... I feel like there were some opportunites but I feel like they just didn't hook up the way they did in the previous three years."

 

He replied, "Yeah, some of that's for sure Josh, especially when they got clean looks ... I didn't think that was a huge part of the deal, though."|

 

I did like hearing what specifically a guy who watches a ton of film thought was causing some of the regression, but that the regression wasn't as big as it sounded like you were implying.

 

 

 

"I don't think the rate of clean looks was the same as it was." He said consistent separation wasn't there anymore beyond 15 yards.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whats-next-at-wr-for-josh-allen-and-the-buffalo/id1145479962?i=1000651431326

 

So Allen had a part in it. But plenty of it was on Diggs, particularly in terms of long

 

He's not saying Diggs is cooked. And he absolutely was NOT saying that the argument that Diggs was getting a lot of attention and opening things up for others is not true. He did not even mention that argument once, not at all, not in any way.

 

And what I personally saw yesterday in just watching the end of the Chiefs playoff game is that there is not the slightest question that Diggs was pulling huge coverage and absolutely opening things up for others.

 

One play in particular, the 3rd and four completion on the missed FG drive, and on that play they had Diggs in close on the right and trips on the left. And the Chiefs had literally four guys surrounding Diggs at the beginning of the play, and one safety right over the top of Diggs as well. And the two of the four who rushed both started really slow to block Allen's lanes to Diggs, taking them out of the rush basically. That left two guys in Diggs' area AND the safety over the top. On the other side there were three on three, allowing an easy completion for a first.

 

And just to add in, Joe asked Whitefield if he was up for trading up for one of the top three WRs in this draft. He said there really was a big drop off after the first three and that if for example Odunze falls to #12, they should pick up the phone and explore things, but that if it involved a future first rounder he was out.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Thurman#1

[PBF81]

We'll find out more this fall.  

 

 

Edited April 7 by PBF81

[Commish]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Are people really saying any of that? Weird.

 

I mean, number 2 makes some sense. Allen clearly work, but it's fair to question how hard. I hadn't heard it compared to Diggs. I'm sure Diggs works hard on his body, as I think it's clear Allen does. Beyond that I don't think receivers have anywhere near as much work beyond keeping in shape as hard-working QBs do. A guy like Peyton Manning or Brady has insane work habits even in the offseason. I hadn't heard that about Diggs.

 

I'd seen the podcast. And while it's not the greatest thing Allen said, it's one sentence, immediately after a horrible game, and we don't know what Diggs said. To me, I don't hold that against him one bit.

The CBS Sports national host on WGR this am said Diggs was a top 5 wide receiver. So yes, they are really saying that...

 

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm trying to think of a single NFL Quarterback who was great with an elite receiver, lost that receiver and immediately regressed. 

 

I'm struggling. 

 

We heard it with Mahomes - Hill. I remember it with Watson - Hopkins as well and Watson had a career year without him (albeit other factors then did torpedo him). Rodgers regressed his last year in Green Bay without Adams but that was 'cos he'd checked out and wasn't interested in getting on the same page with the talented new guys when he could sulk and throw to a stiff like Alan Lazard instead. Sure - elite receivers can elevate Quarterbacks but they don't make them. 

Joe Montana was not Joe Montana without Jerry Rice. However Steve Young became the new Joe Montana with Jerry Rice.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 Beck -

 

Its all just noise.  We go looking for news, but there is no news.  Then we stuck on somethung that was written to catch our eye.  Sometimes its more or less correct, sometimes it isn't, but it's all just noise.  

 

Yesterday the Boston Globe said the Bills werent active in free agency because the Pegulas are unhappy with the results they're getting and tightened the purse strings.  Huh?

 

Unless it is written by the usual people who follow the Bills, it is just noise.  

What Shaw said.  I loved Cossell with Brown and Tasker this last week.  No narrative to push,he just tells it as he sees it with what is happening. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

14 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Joe Montana was not Joe Montana without Jerry Rice. However Steve Young became the new Joe Montana with Jerry Rice.  

Huh? Montana won two SuperBowls without Rice. Seriously, one of the least informed posts of all time.

Edited April 7 by Ethan in Cleveland

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Joe Montana was not Joe Montana without Jerry Rice. However Steve Young became the new Joe Montana with Jerry Rice.  

 

Before my time, but that wasn't just a QB losing his elite WR was it? It was a QB moving from a great team to a less great one.

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Ghs24mike said:

Was listening to Joe Marino on the Locked On Bills podcast- he had a guest on one of his most recent shows who talked about Diggs. It brought to light, with data, something that I was feeling, but couldn't put my finger on. 

 

Diggs has lost the ability to separate down the field. To be fair he was never an elite speed guy, but the data shows that past 10 yds Diggs was not getting any separation, couldnt stack DB's, etc. 

 

Long story short, the argument that Diggs was getting a ton of attention which opened the game up for everyone else down the stretch wasn't true. Sure there was the occasional missed throw by Josh, but that happens to every QB. He simply isn't the same guy he was when he came to Buffalo. 

 

If Beane makes the right moves in FA and the Draft to bring in a young receiver, with speed, I believe Josh will play even better next year than this year. 

 

He will put to bed all the arguments and the Bills will be improved on Offense. 

 

I believe the bolded is what Greg Cosell meant, when he said the facts on tape show that Diggs "was not a #1 WR at this point in his career": that he has lost the ability to separate down the field.

 

Now that can be true for various reasons: 

1) Diggs could have sustained some injury that was hampering him at the end of the season

2) He was being used differently - only on short routes - under Joe Brady for no explicable reason

3) He had checked out mentally and was mailing it in

4) the undefeated Father Time is catching up to him

 

I do think Diggs was getting their best CB from most teams but yeah, he wasn't being double covered and bracketed and taken away down the stretch.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

35 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Joe Montana was not Joe Montana without Jerry Rice. However Steve Young became the new Joe Montana with Jerry Rice.  

 

Joe Montana was 37 years old and had missed one entire season and a second season until the final game due to an elbow injury at the point he was traded to a different team, where it wasn't just that he didn't have Jerry Rice - he didn't have much

So not exactly a comparable situation

 

Also, no offense to Stefon Diggs - but he's no Jerry Rice.

[Chaos]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Before my time, but that wasn't just a QB losing his elite WR was it? It was a QB moving from a great team to a less great one.

If your saying playing for Bill Walsh rather than Marty Shottenheimer is more important than who the WR's are, I agree. 

 

32 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Huh? Montana won two SuperBowls without Rice. Seriously, one of the least informed posts of all time.

Dwight Clark was solid in the early Montana years.  But the early Montana years has zero to do with the question asked, that I responded. too. 
The question i answered was about "after losing an elite WR". So I answered the actual question.  Your response indicates you did not understand the question. But thats ok. 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

If your saying playing for Bill Walsh rather than Marty Shottenheimer is more important than who the WR's are, I agree. 

 

Not just coaching but the rest of the talent

13 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Get used to it. When your franchise admits to not being a film junkie, they will always question his work ethic.

 

When he's experienced most of his success with a top tier WR, people think it's the wr (it's almost never the wr)

 

Allen and Diggs had some tense moments. On national tv, in primetime, in playoffs, even AFCCG. What are these people who don't follow the bills supposed to think 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

In ways they were right. They said the bills will move on from Diggs and Diggs isn't happy. We said "they don't know what they are talking about. He literally just said in a presser he wants to retire a Bill". Then we all scream "clickbait" as if it illegitamizes the story, but sometimes even the idiots turn out to be correct.

 

Overall, BFD. What they say NEVER matters. We will all find out soon what Josh is without Diggs. Personally I see a major down year for the team and I'm still hoping for a new HC before Josh is 40, but I'd be damned if I'm going to be affected by someone's random opinion who I don't even know. Especially if it is literally their job to talk about it. They gotta say something, right? It's just like the political 24 hour news cycle. Gotta fill the air.

 

Stay off the social interwebs and click the TV over to game show network or something. You'll notice all the tension just wash away. I've followed the team this off-season less than I ever have and it's been great. I got a text from a friend of mine (who used to be a Buffalo Jill coincidentally) about the Bills trading Stef and it's the only reason I even came back on here a few days ago.

 

See y'all again at the draft!

 

OK to the rest of it, good points and wise advice.

 

To the first of it, "admits to not being a film junkie" isn't even what Josh actually said, but I've provided transcripts and all the rest of it so I've run up the white flag on that battle

[3rdand12]

13 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Get used to it. When your franchise admits to not being a film junkie, they will always question his work ethic.

 

When he's experienced most of his success with a top tier WR, people think it's the wr (it's almost never the wr)

 

Allen and Diggs had some tense moments. On national tv, in primetime, in playoffs, even AFCCG. What are these people who don't follow the bills supposed to think 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

In ways they were right. They said the bills will move on from Diggs and Diggs isn't happy. We said "they don't know what they are talking about. He literally just said in a presser he wants to retire a Bill". Then we all scream "clickbait" as if it illegitamizes the story, but sometimes even the idiots turn out to be correct.

 

Overall, BFD. What they say NEVER matters. We will all find out soon what Josh is without Diggs. Personally I see a major down year for the team and I'm still hoping for a new HC before Josh is 40, but I'd be damned if I'm going to be affected by someone's random opinion who I don't even know. Especially if it is literally their job to talk about it. They gotta say something, right? It's just like the political 24 hour news cycle. Gotta fill the air.

 

Stay off the social interwebs and click the TV over to game show network or something. You'll notice all the tension just wash away. I've followed the team this off-season less than I ever have and it's been great. I got a text from a friend of mine (who used to be a Buffalo Jill coincidentally) about the Bills trading Stef and it's the only reason I even came back on here a few days ago.

 

See y'all again at the draft!

will be best season ever

 

see bolded above

Edited April 7 by 3rdand12

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Before my time, but that wasn't just a QB losing his elite WR was it? It was a QB moving from a great team to a less great one.

Montana also won two super bowls without Jerry Rice

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Diggs wanted to win. That's all he cares about. He didn't believe the Bills can win and that they missed their window. That's all you need to know. 

I think this is a very fair point and it is Diggs opinion right or wrong.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I believe the bolded is what Greg Cosell meant, when he said the facts on tape show that Diggs "was not a #1 WR at this point in his career": that he has lost the ability to separate down the field.

 

Now that can be true for various reasons: 

1) Diggs could have sustained some injury that was hampering him at the end of the season

2) He was being used differently - only on short routes - under Joe Brady for no explicable reason

3) He had checked out mentally and was mailing it in

4) the undefeated Father Time is catching up to him

 

I do think Diggs was getting their best CB from most teams but yeah, he wasn't being double covered and bracketed and taken away down the stretch.

 

 

It was mostly #3 and some #4.  Youvcould see the guy has flat checked out several times going back to mid 2022.  When we hit 5-5, this year is when Diggs decided he had enough