GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Posted April 6 (edited) The sports "Media" is already beginning their "analysis" that the Bills are done in 2024. The Athletic (a NYT company) has an article today by the Jets beat writer about how the Jets have the most talented roster in the AFC East (their 80 year old QB not withstanding) and we all know how objective the NYT is. https://theathletic.com/5388899/2024/04/04/jets-best-afc-east-roster-diggs-trade/ How much are we really going to miss any of the players released, traded or not re-signed this off-season? Wide Receivers Let's start with the elephant in the room. The Bills moved on from both veteran boundary receivers including "superstar" Stefon Diggs. Those two accounted for 2349 receiving yards last season and 15 TDs. However, Davis caught only 56% of his targets and after week 6 Diggs caught only 61% of his opportunities. In fact, Diggs, after week 6, was on pace to only put up 830 yards (on 145 targets) in a full season. That would have put him 25 in NFL. He also was clearly no longer a fit in a Joe Brady offense. On the other hand Kincaid and Shakir flourished after week 6. Kincaid was inactive in week 6, but over the next 13 weeks (including the playoffs) his usage increased and he paced for 860 yards over a 17 week season. His usage in his second season should increase further with Diggs gone. Shakir's game also changed after week 6. In the first 6 weeks last season, Shakir averaged less than 1 target per game. 1 target! After week six, Shakir was on pace for 845 yards (on only 68 targets). I also researched how the average WR drafted from 20-40 over the last 5 years produced in his rookie season. The average was about 660 yards. There were some stars like Jefferson, Tee Higgins, and Jordan Addison and some duds, but for the most part most were solid to good. I'm confident that Beane & Co will find someone in the draft to help the Bills stretch the field with their 1st pick, something we didn't have last season. In addition we added proven slot receiver Curtis Samuel who should flourish in Brady's offense and we aren't going to miss the departed Harty or Sherfield at all. Defensive Line Are we really going to miss Phillips, Lawson, Ford or Settle? No didn't think so. That leaves Leonard Floyd. No BS, we are going to miss him. The hope here is that Miller can capture at least some of his old form (he did look better in the playoffs) and that he and Epenesa can be effective enough to allow Rousseau to go back to his natural position and make up for the loss of Floyd. My hope is that they draft a edge rusher in the 2nd rd to help make up for the loss. Offensive line Out with Bates and Morse. Considering Bates played all of 35 snaps, I don't think he'll be missed. Morse on the other hand has been the Bills center for the last 5 years and has done a very good job, but at 32 it is a reasonable question to ask how much he has left in the tank. Beane solution is moving McGovern to center and creating a competition for the guard spot to returnee David Edwards (148 snaps last season - the most by a Bills backup OL) and presumably veteran La'el Collins. Collins has started 86 of 89 career games as a rt, but missed last season with injuries. Running back Lat Murray, Hines and Harris are gone. They won't be missed. Cook became a star last season. Ty Johnson also returns and was very effective last season in limited reps. The Bills will likely add another back at some point Safety Out with Hyde and Poyer and in with Mike Edwards and Rapp becomes a starter. This is a slight downgrade based on last year's grades, but it was time to move on from Hyde and Poyer. Corners and Linebackers White and Dodson are the big name departures, but given White's injury history and the return to health of pro bower Matt Milano, the play of Taron Johnson, Douglas, Benard and Benford, I don't think we'll miss either player. On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded. We have fair questions at WR, OL, DL and safety. However, I'm not worried about the wide receivers. To me, removing DIggs and Davis has opened the opportunity for Allen to longer have to worry about Diggs getting targets. He can now focus solely on who is open. At safety, the declines in Poyer and Hyde were very noticeable and Rapp and Edwards should give us at least when the vets did. I'm also not worried about the OL. Torrence and Brown should continue to improve and McGovern proved he has a very capable interior lineman last season. The only loss the really worries me is Floyd. Despite the downgrades on paper, I can see the Bills actually improving next season. I think the offense will be better and more consistent. Besides Allen and Dawkins, the heart of the offense are all young players in Brown, Torrence, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook who should continue to improve. On defense it's much the same story. Oliver, Milano and T Johnson are the core, but they received a significant lift from improving kids Benford, Benard, and Rousseau. Edited April 6 by GASabresIUFan 12 1 1 Quote
Chandler#81 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Morse, as an understated true leader and player will be missed imo. Also, the League-wide respect for the Hyde & Poyer tandem will be sorely missed. Al these losses will have negative impact on the teams’ performance, even if only subtly. 6 2 1 1 Quote
Mr. WEO Posted April 6 Posted April 6 OP concedes "On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded", then spends the rest of the article telling us how the the Bills "should be ok" with the downgrades----after opening by dragging a guy who claims the Jets are better on paper. gotta love this place... 2 Quote
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 6 Posted April 6 9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Morse, as an understated true leader and player will be missed imo. Also, the League-wide respect for the Hyde & Poyer tandem will be sorely missed. Al these losses will have negative impact on the teams’ performance, even if only subtly. One thing is as true in sports as it is in regular life. Time marches on. This isn't to say that Morse, Poyer, Hyde and the rest won't be missed. As a matter of fact we lost a LOT of guys that wore that "C" on their chest at one point or another here in Buffalo. This year will be about who steps up to the plate and takes leadership. Josh and Milano are both more "quiet leaders". But who is going to be the group guys turn to? I remember when we traded for Rasul Douglas, there were a good portion of guys on that team that pointed to his leadership. I expect him to step up an one guy. Taron Johnson spoke about being more vocal this year. But we will need some young guys to step into those roles as well. Knox? Maybe Bernard? Rapp? 3 Quote
benderbender Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Poyer was betrayed by an unappreciative fanbase who attacked his personal opinions, his charities, and his family. Then he took less money to fight through injuries to play the best statistical years of his career. But now that same fanbase calls him a traitor for going somewhere he's wanted and his personal opinions actually align with the city. Morse took paycuts and played through injuries. 2 2 5 1 Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: OP concedes "On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded", then spends the rest of the article telling us how the the Bills "should be ok" with the downgrades----after opening by dragging a guy who claims the Jets are better on paper. gotta love this place... The Jets are not the better team even on paper even with the Bills' departures. The Bills are slightly downgraded on paper, but we all know that what happens on paper is meaningless once the season starts. The Bills improved in the second half of the season last year because of 6 1st and 2nd year players (Benford, Benard, Torrence, Cook, Shakir and Kincaid) plus the addition of Douglas in a trade. Is there any reason to think that those kids won't continue to improve and help the team improve with them? 1 Quote
Nextmanup Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Nah, we won't miss Diggs. 1,343 yards of receiving per year for 4 years as a Bill. Any stooge will pump out that production in his sleep. 2 1 2 4 Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, benderbender said: Poyer was betrayed by an unappreciative fanbase who attacked his personal opinions, his charities, and his family. Then he took less money to fight through injuries to play the best statistical years of his career. But now that same fanbase calls him a traitor for going somewhere he's wanted and his personal opinions actually align with the city. Morse took paycuts and played through injuries. I'm personally going to miss Morse, Hyde and Poyer. They along with DIggs were critical pieces along with Allen in making the Bills a contender. The Hyde Poyer combo was on the NFL's best for years. However, time marches on and none of the 4 players mentioned are what they once were and Beane was correct to move on. Poyer and Hyde should eventually be enshrined in the Bills HOF. They were that good. 3 Quote
dpberr Posted April 6 Posted April 6 No. 1. The expanded regular season and playoff runs increasingly makes the NFL game a young man's game relative to NFL "playing age." 2. The emotions surrounding players released this season will be forgotten by the time we are cheering on the 2026 Bills, which should be a fantastic team. The moves made today create that team of tomorrow. 2 1 Quote
Mr. WEO Posted April 6 Posted April 6 4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: The Jets are not the better team even on paper even with the Bills' departures. The Bills are slightly downgraded on paper, but we all know that what happens on paper is meaningless once the season starts. The Bills improved in the second half of the season last year because of 6 1st and 2nd year players (Benford, Benard, Torrence, Cook, Shakir and Kincaid) plus the addition of Douglas in a trade. Is there any reason to think that those kids won't continue to improve and help the team improve with them? sure, they might. That's not the topic. Outside of O-line (assuming flat earther QB can play), the Jets are loaded. Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: 1,343 yards of receiving per year for 4 years as a Bill. This is a what have you done for me lately league. Who was the better player after week 6 last season Diggs or Shakir? The stats and the eye test say Shakir. Maybe Diggs is reborn in the Houston offense, but he is no longer the player we saw 3-4 years ago. 1 2 Quote
twist_to_open Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I don't have anything to substaciate it, but I can't help but think the organization made Davis a captain last year in the hopes of motivating him to be more engaged and not so much based on merit. Wondering if I'm out there on this or if anyone else questioned this. Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Outside of O-line (assuming flat earther QB can play), the Jets are loaded. No team wins with a lousy O-line. Having a bad Oline and a statute at QB is a recipe for disaster. Their defense was elite last season and should be again this year. 2 Quote
BBFL Posted April 6 Posted April 6 4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: This is a what have you done for me lately league. Who was the better player after week 6 last season Diggs or Shakir? The stats and the eye test say Shakir. Maybe Diggs is reborn in the Houston offense, but he is no longer the player we saw 3-4 years ago. 3-4 years ago? I’d even take the player we saw last year even if it was primarily the first 9 weeks. That’s just me though. Quote
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 6 Posted April 6 (edited) 53 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: The sports "Media" is already beginning their "analysis" that the Bills are done in 2024. The Athletic (a NYT company) has an article today by the Jets beat writer about how the Jets have the most talented roster in the AFC East (their 80 year old QB not withstanding) and we all know how objective the NYT is. https://theathletic.com/5388899/2024/04/04/jets-best-afc-east-roster-diggs-trade/ How much are we really going to miss any of the players released, traded or not re-signed this off-season? Wide Receivers Let's start with the elephant in the room. The Bills moved on from both veteran boundary receivers including "superstar" Stefon Diggs. Those two accounted for 2349 receiving yards last season and 15 TDs. However, Davis caught only 56% of his targets and after week 6 Diggs caught only 61% of his opportunities. In fact, Diggs, after week 6, was on pace to only put up 830 yards (on 145 targets) in a full season. That would have put him 25 in NFL. He also was clearly no longer a fit in a Joe Brady offense. On the other hand Kincaid and Shakir flourished after week 6. Kincaid was inactive in week 6, but over the next 13 weeks (including the playoffs) his usage increased and he paced for 860 yards over a 17 week season. His usage in his second season should increase further with Diggs gone. Shakir's game also changed after week 6. In the first 6 weeks last season, Shakir averaged less than 1 target per game. 1 target! After week six, Shakir was on pace for 845 yards (on only 68 targets). I also researched how the average WR drafted from 20-40 over the last 5 years produced in his rookie season. The average was about 660 yards. There were some stars like Jefferson, Tee Higgins, and Jordan Addison and some duds, but for the most part most were solid to good. I'm confident that Beane & Co will find someone in the draft to help the Bills stretch the field with their 1st pick, something we didn't have last season. In addition we added proven slot receiver Curtis Samuel who should flourish in Brady's offense and we aren't going to miss the departed Harty or Sherfield at all. Defensive Line Are we really going to miss Phillips, Lawson, Ford or Settle? No didn't think so. That leaves Leonard Floyd. No BS, we are going to miss him. The hope here is that Miller can capture at least some of his old form (he did look better in the playoffs) and that he and Epenesa can be effective enough to allow Rousseau to go back to his natural position and make up for the loss of Floyd. My hope is that they draft a edge rusher in the 2nd rd to help make up for the loss. Offensive line Out with Bates and Morse. Considering Bates played all of 35 snaps, I don't think he'll be missed. Morse on the other hand has been the Bills center for the last 5 years and has done a very good job, but at 32 it is a reasonable question to ask how much he has left in the tank. Beane solution is moving McGovern to center and creating a competition for the guard spot to returnee David Edwards (148 snaps last season - the most by a Bills backup OL) and presumably veteran La'el Collins. Collins has started 86 of 89 career games as a rt, but missed last season with injuries. Running back Lat Murray, Hines and Harris are gone. They won't be missed. Cook became a star last season. Ty Johnson also returns and was very effective last season in limited reps. The Bills will likely add another back at some point Safety Out with Hyde and Poyer and in with Mike Edwards and Rapp becomes a starter. This is a slight downgrade based on last year's grades, but it was time to move on from Hyde and Poyer. Corners and Linebackers White and Dodson are the big name departures, but given White's injury history and the return to health of pro bower Matt Milano, the play of Taron Johnson, Douglas, Benard and Benford, I don't think we'll miss either player. On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded. We have fair questions at WR, OL, DL and safety. However, I'm not worried about the wide receivers. To me, removing DIggs and Davis has opened the opportunity for Allen to longer have to worry about Diggs getting targets. He can now focus solely on who is open. At safety, the declines in Poyer and Hyde were very noticeable and Rapp and Edwards should give us at least when the vets did. I'm also not worried about the OL. Torrence and Brown should continue to improve and McGovern proved he has a very capable interior lineman last season. The only loss the really worries me is Floyd. Despite the downgrades on paper, I can see the Bills actually improving next season. I think the offense will be better and more consistent. Besides Allen and Dawkins, the heart of the offense are all young players in Brown, Torrence, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook who should continue to improve. On defense it's much the same story. Oliver, Milano and T Johnson are the core, but they received a significant lift from improving kids Benford, Benard, and Rousseau. I subscribe to the Athletic and thought the article was fair when you look at the results over the entire season. The last 7 weeks gave us hope in certain areas like WR with guys like Shakir and Kincaid at TE, but we don't yet know if its sustainable over and entire year. We came in 2nd and he added a disclaimer "If we grade the quarterback position on a curve, the Bills would bring it closer, clearly." As to your concerns on the O-line, he actually gave us the best grade in the division there. Having said that overall I'm not that worried about the players lost either, biggest concern right now to me is WR. While Diggs struggled at the end, he still does make the defense game plan for him. Second position is to me is safety. Below is the final rankings form the article. Most of the area where the Jets were ranked better was on defense BTW. He ranked the Jets #1 on every defensive position except safety, they were ranked dead last and Bills were 3rd Edited April 6 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch 1 Quote
uticaclub Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Diggs is the only one that we will miss. The rest were old, injured or replaceable. Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 (edited) 11 hours ago, BBFL said: 3-4 years ago? I’d even take the player we saw last year even if it was primarily the first 9 weeks. That’s just me though. If he continued to play the entire season like he did the first 6 weeks, he'd still be here. Unfortunately he went from catching 74% of his targets early in the year to 61% over the last 13 weeks. He also dropped a sure fire TD in the playoffs against KC that likely would have won us the game. Produce and no one cares about your attitude. Failing to produce and having a bad attitude gets someone traded. Edited April 7 by GASabresIUFan 2 3 Quote
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 6 Posted April 6 21 minutes ago, benderbender said: Poyer was betrayed by an unappreciative fanbase who attacked his personal opinions, his charities, and his family. Then he took less money to fight through injuries to play the best statistical years of his career. But now that same fanbase calls him a traitor for going somewhere he's wanted and his personal opinions actually align with the city. Morse took paycuts and played through injuries. Overly dramatic and incorrect takes Quote
FireChans Posted April 6 Posted April 6 58 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said: The sports "Media" is already beginning their "analysis" that the Bills are done in 2024. The Athletic (a NYT company) has an article today by the Jets beat writer about how the Jets have the most talented roster in the AFC East (their 80 year old QB not withstanding) and we all know how objective the NYT is. https://theathletic.com/5388899/2024/04/04/jets-best-afc-east-roster-diggs-trade/ How much are we really going to miss any of the players released, traded or not re-signed this off-season? Wide Receivers Let's start with the elephant in the room. The Bills moved on from both veteran boundary receivers including "superstar" Stefon Diggs. Those two accounted for 2349 receiving yards last season and 15 TDs. However, Davis caught only 56% of his targets and after week 6 Diggs caught only 61% of his opportunities. In fact, Diggs, after week 6, was on pace to only put up 830 yards (on 145 targets) in a full season. That would have put him 25 in NFL. He also was clearly no longer a fit in a Joe Brady offense. On the other hand Kincaid and Shakir flourished after week 6. Kincaid was inactive in week 6, but over the next 13 weeks (including the playoffs) his usage increased and he paced for 860 yards over a 17 week season. His usage in his second season should increase further with Diggs gone. Shakir's game also changed after week 6. In the first 6 weeks last season, Shakir averaged less than 1 target per game. 1 target! After week six, Shakir was on pace for 845 yards (on only 68 targets). I also researched how the average WR drafted from 20-40 over the last 5 years produced in his rookie season. The average was about 660 yards. There were some stars like Jefferson, Tee Higgins, and Jordan Addison and some duds, but for the most part most were solid to good. I'm confident that Beane & Co will find someone in the draft to help the Bills stretch the field with their 1st pick, something we didn't have last season. In addition we added proven slot receiver Curtis Samuel who should flourish in Brady's offense and we aren't going to miss the departed Harty or Sherfield at all. Defensive Line Are we really going to miss Phillips, Lawson, Ford or Settle? No didn't think so. That leaves Leonard Floyd. No BS, we are going to miss him. The hope here is that Miller can capture at least some of his old form (he did look better in the playoffs) and that he and Epenesa can be effective enough to allow Rousseau to go back to his natural position and make up for the loss of Floyd. My hope is that they draft a edge rusher in the 2nd rd to help make up for the loss. Offensive line Out with Bates and Morse. Considering Bates played all of 35 snaps, I don't think he'll be missed. Morse on the other hand has been the Bills center for the last 5 years and has done a very good job, but at 32 it is a reasonable question to ask how much he has left in the tank. Beane solution is moving McGovern to center and creating a competition for the guard spot to returnee David Edwards (148 snaps last season - the most by a Bills backup OL) and presumably veteran La'el Collins. Collins has started 86 of 89 career games as a rt, but missed last season with injuries. Running back Lat Murray, Hines and Harris are gone. They won't be missed. Cook became a star last season. Ty Johnson also returns and was very effective last season in limited reps. The Bills will likely add another back at some point Safety Out with Hyde and Poyer and in with Mike Edwards and Rapp becomes a starter. This is a slight downgrade based on last year's grades, but it was time to move on from Hyde and Poyer. Corners and Linebackers White and Dodson are the big name departures, but given White's injury history and the return to health of pro bower Matt Milano, the play of Taron Johnson, Douglas, Benard and Benford, I don't think we'll miss either player. On paper the Bills are slightly downgraded. We have fair questions at WR, OL, DL and safety. However, I'm not worried about the wide receivers. To me, removing DIggs and Davis has opened the opportunity for Allen to longer have to worry about Diggs getting targets. He can now focus solely on who is open. At safety, the declines in Poyer and Hyde were very noticeable and Rapp and Edwards should give us at least when the vets did. I'm also not worried about the OL. Torrence and Brown should continue to improve and McGovern proved he has a very capable interior lineman last season. The only loss the really worries me is Floyd. Despite the downgrades on paper, I can see the Bills actually improving next season. I think the offense will be better and more consistent. Besides Allen and Dawkins, the heart of the offense are all young players in Brown, Torrence, Shakir, Kincaid and Cook who should continue to improve. On defense it's much the same story. Oliver, Milano and T Johnson are the core, but they received a significant lift from improving kids Benford, Benard, and Rousseau. We aren’t going to miss them that much, because they are diminished players. But we are going to miss the players they used to be quite a lot. 2 Quote
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