Why does Beane get a pass?

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For sure the responsibilities are interwoven. No question. The pair are in lock step and should be judged as a regime rather than as individuals. 

   True enough, Imo as a regime not enough has been done to get Allen the types of weapons and O-line protection needed over the duration of their tenure in Buffalo, not that they haven’t brought in players, but just not the right ones.  As to the defense…, the choices concerning the line have been, shall we say not productive in the way we all have hoped for. 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Edited April 7 by Don Otreply

[Don Otreply]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For sure the responsibilities are interwoven. No question. The pair are in lock step and should be judged as a regime rather than as individuals. 

   True enough, Imo as a regime not enough has been done to get Allen the types of weapons and O-line protection needed over the duration of their tenure in Buffalo, not that they haven’t brought in players, but just not the right ones.  As to the defense…, the choices concerning the line have been, shall we say not productive in the way we all have hoped for. 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

   True enough, Imo as a regime not enough has been done to get Allen the types of weapons and O-line protection needed over the duration of their tenure in Buffalo, not that they haven’t brought in players, but just not the right ones.  As to the defense…, the choices concerning the line have been, shall we say not productive in the way we all have hoped for. 

Imo, they went for the Brady NE model after Allen ascended in 2020 and Gabe looked like he was the next big thing at WR in 2021.

 

They went bargain bin hunting for bandaids around Allen because he has the ability to make chicken salad out of chicken *****, and tried to build up the defense.

 

Honestly, it’s not the worst plan. If a couple of our DL guys had actually become the elite players we hoped they would, we may have been a SB team in the last 2 years. I do and did see the vision. Let Allen carry the offense, scramble around and make a couple monster plays that only he can make, and rely on an elite defense to finish the job. Hell, that’s basically how the Chiefs won this year.
 

But, of course, the bandaids proved to be bandaids and the defensive players ended up being closer to JAGs than stars, and of course, Diggs became a problem. So now we have minimal offensive investments and our defensive investments were a waste.

 

It’s time for a philosophy shift. Build up Allen and the O, and let McD earn his contract by coaching up some JAGs into a competent defense. 

[HappyDays]

One thing I'll say about Beane is that I think he has learned from his mistakes, although it took him too long in some cases. Failing to sign DeAndre Hopkins last offseason is arguably his worst mistake yet, but this year he signed Curtis Samuel and is almost certain to draft a WR with his first pick so at least he is trying to rectify his mistake. This offseason probably has been his best yet, cutting overpriced players that repeatedly fail in the playoffs, finally making a real investment at WR, going cheap with defensive line depth instead of inexplicably overpaying backup players, and managing to secure more draft value for Diggs than other highly paid veteran WRs are getting these days. He still has to manage the draft well but he's made some very shrewd moves this offseason. He also is genuinely a great executive and presents well for the organization.

 

I compare that to McDermott who I think has learned practically nothing over the last few years. I'm confident Beane can build a championship caliber team even if he may not be the very best at what does. McDermott I am not confident can coach a championship caliber team. That's where I'm at with this regime. If Pegula chose to move on from McDermott next year and let Beane choose his replacement I would be good with that.

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Hollins has been his team's #2 WR for two straight seasons now, fwiw.

I said on a good team. He played for the Raiders and the Falcons. He caught 18 passes last year.  I don't think that's a #2 WR even on a bad team.  Hollins has caught 131 passes in his entire 6 year career. 57 of of those came in his one season with the Raiders who were so impressed with him that they let him walk after the year.  Maybe he had a huge offer the Raiders didn't want to match? Nope. 1 year 2.5 million, less than a million guaranteed.

 

Apart from that 1 year with the Raiders, Hollins has played with 3 other teams over a 5 year span.  He averaged 15 (14.8) catches a season for those other 5 years. 16, 10, 16, 14, and 18.  Why anyone thinks he's going to suddenly break out at age 30 and deliver WR2 productivity is beyond my comprehension.  

[Wayne Arnold]

16 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

I said on a good team. He played for the Raiders and the Falcons. He caught 18 passes last year.  I don't think that's a #2 WR even on a bad team.  Hollins has caught 131 passes in his entire 6 year career. 57 of of those came in his one season with the Raiders who were so impressed with him that they let him walk after the year.  Maybe he had a huge offer the Raiders didn't want to match? Nope. 1 year 2.5 million, less than a million guaranteed.

 

Apart from that 1 year with the Raiders, Hollins has played with 3 other teams over a 5 year span.  He averaged 15 (14.8) catches a season for those other 5 years. 16, 10, 16, 14, and 18.  Why anyone thinks he's going to suddenly break out at age 30 and deliver WR2 productivity is beyond my comprehension.  

 

Those were bad teams because they had bad quarterbacks and/or head coaches. It's not like the WR units were any worse than anywhere else. Hollins doesn't have to worry about his quarterback's ability like he did in Atlanta.

 

Regardless, he's not going to be our #2 WR unless our top 3-4 wideouts tear ACL's. Pretty silly discussion tbh.

[Thurman#1]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:18 AM, Sharky7337 said:

Why does Beane get a pass?

 

 

He doesn't get a pass.

 

But any careful look shows he's a top ten GM and probably a bit higher than that.

[FireChans]

On 4/7/2024 at 3:09 PM, HappyDays said:

 

One thing I'll say about Beane is that I think he has learned from his mistakes, although it took him too long in some cases. Failing to sign DeAndre Hopkins last offseason is arguably his worst mistake yet, but this year he signed Curtis Samuel and is almost certain to draft a WR with his first pick so at least he is trying to rectify his mistake.

 

Talk about easy to please. 
 

He’s learned from his mistakes because he signed…. one WR after losing 2 starters to FA’s and trades?

 

When Samuel is our starting boundary WR Week 1 and can’t get off the press, he will have learned from his mistakes?

 

When someone gets banged up and Mack Hollins is running routes in the playoffs, he will have learned from his mistakes?

 

I failed my social studies test because I didn’t study at all, but I opened the textbook once after that. I’m learning from my mistakes!

[T master]

On 4/5/2024 at 3:18 PM, Sharky7337 said:

Von miller contract

Dawson Knox contract

Stephen diggs contract

Defense line draft picks that never pan out

Defense tackle signings that are not good enough

No reliable pass rusher 

Wyatt Teller give away

Edmunds 

Star contract

 

Just curious why he is so highly regarded when these issues have come to roost fully

 

Maybe because of the fact that since he's been here he has made the team relevant every single year & moving into the future . Go look at what Arizona, Carolina, The Jets & other GM's around the league have done in comparison before casting stones on 1 of the best GM's in recent years in the business .

 

Edmunds couldn't be kept due to his decision to make as much cash as possible not Beanes fault, Teller that is unfortunate no one knew what he would become, Diggs was a great signing up until now but Beane is looking forward and setting up for that, Are you saying Ed sucks or is a bust ?

 

Some of what you say as far no pass rushers not working out seems as though you want every player drafted to be a Mika Parsons or a Von Miller which just doesn't happen .

 

What about Millano, Benford,Bernard, Cook, T Johnson, Kincaid, Shakir, Spector, Torrence, ? Sure Beane has had some misses but there are other players that haven't shown what they got as of yet and could round into being great players for the Bills but it's easier to point out the misses and not mention the hits .

 

I'll stick with Beane and give him what he needs just like T Pegs has done by giving him a extension to complete the task at hand his history to this point is good enough for me !!! 

 

And to answer the question of why he gets a pass - Because he's dam good at his job - GO BILLS !!! 

Edited April 9 by T master

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Talk about easy to please. 
 

He’s learned from his mistakes because he signed…. one WR after losing 2 starters to FA’s and trades?

 

When Samuel is our starting boundary WR Week 1 and can’t get off the press, he will have learned from his mistakes?

 

When someone gets banged up and Mack Hollins is running routes in the playoffs, he will have learned from his mistakes?

 

I failed my social studies test because I didn’t study at all, but I opened the textbook once after that. I’m learning from my mistakes!

 

I'm not gonna go out of my way vehemently defending him. His failure to invest in WR and leave us in a desperate situation is worth criticizing. But I'm defending him under the assumption he is going to make a real investment at two starting WRs, whether in the draft or one of the remaining free agents or by trade. If he does, that will be two offseasons in a row where he finally made serious investments in pass catching weapons (although I am still totally confused about his failure to sign Hopkins last year). That tells me he has learned something even if it doesn't excuse past mistakes.

 

Also it's pretty undeniable that the Bills had a championship caliber roster at least once over the past 4 seasons. 2021 for sure, probably 2022 if not for a series of mishaps that befell the roster.

[Gregg]

6 playoff appearances in 7 years. 4 straight AFCE championships. It sucks they haven't won a Lombardi yet, but the Bills have been very competitive over the years. With that said the pressure is on Beane to hit a HR in this draft. 

[uticaclub]

54 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Maybe because of the fact that since he's been here he has made the team relevant every single year & moving into the future . Go look at what Arizona, Carolina, The Jets & other GM's around the league have done in comparison before casting stones on 1 of the best GM's in recent years in the business .

 

Edmunds couldn't be kept due to his decision to make as much cash as possible not Beanes fault, Teller that is unfortunate no one knew what he would become, Diggs was a great signing up until now but Beane is looking forward and setting up for that, Are you saying Ed sucks or is a bust ?

 

Some of what you say as far no pass rushers not working out seems as though you want every player drafted to be a Mika Parsons or a Von Miller which just doesn't happen .

 

What about Millano, Benford,Bernard, Cook, T Johnson, Kincaid, Shakir, Spector, Torrence, ? Sure Beane has had some misses but there are other players that haven't shown what they got as of yet and could round into being great players for the Bills but it's easier to point out the misses and not mention the hits .

 

I'll stick with Beane and give him what he needs just like T Pegs has done by giving him a extension to complete the task at hand his history to this point is good enough for me !!! 

 

And to answer the question of why he gets a pass - Because he's dam good at his job - GO BILLS !!! 

Milano & T Johnson we're drafted by Whaley. Drafting Kincaid after we signed Knox to big money with LaPorta being drafted In the 2nd isn't a win either. Spector is JAG at this point

Edited April 9 by uticaclub

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not gonna go out of my way vehemently defending him. His failure to invest in WR and leave us in a desperate situation is worth criticizing. But I'm defending him under the assumption he is going to make a real investment at two starting WRs, whether in the draft or one of the remaining free agents or by trade. If he does, that will be two offseasons in a row where he finally made serious investments in pass catching weapons (although I am still totally confused about his failure to sign Hopkins last year). That tells me he has learned something even if it doesn't excuse past mistakes.

 

Also it's pretty undeniable that the Bills had a championship caliber roster at least once over the past 4 seasons. 2021 for sure, probably 2022 if not for a series of mishaps that befell the roster.

 

We had a better WR group the past 4 seasons than many super bowl winning teams have  had in the past 20 to 30 years.  We had a top 5 WR (arguably top 3 a couple seasons) where only a few teams in the NFL can ever make that claim.  We had Davis who by WR2 standards put up WR2 numbers despite his limitations.  We had one of the best slot WR's in the NFL for part of that in Cole Beasley.  Last year we had a rookie TE set team records, a 2nd year WR lead the NFL in catch rate, efficiency, and yards per target.  We still had Diggs and Davis too along with a breakout star in Cook.  

 

People talk about the receiving group Allen has had like its been bad or bottom of the league and its just remotely close to reality.  What really gets me, is this notion that we didn't advance because we didn't sign Hopkins like no one actually remembers the KC playoff game.  We lost because we started a journeyman LB who had just been on his couch a few weeks earlier and the KC defense just literally attacked our LB's all game long.  We lost because Chris Jones blew up Dawkins into Josh Allens foot a half second before Josh got a sure TD strike off to Shakir causing him to come up short.  We lost because we lost key players on defense and couldn't make a play when we needed to stop KC.  We lost because we couldn't get Mahomes jersey dirty and didn't win in the trenches.  

 

None of our losses was because of WR's unless you want to point the finger to our top end WR1 who dropped a pass 70 yards downfield.  But even then, we had other chances to win that game and the team failed in other ares.  

 

2020 - This team was not on the level to compete with KC yet and we lost bad on both sides of the ball to the Chiefs.

2021 - Allen had 9 TD's in 2 games...we were eliminated because our defense gave up 17 points in a matter of the final minutes of the game and OT.  

2022 - We lost because Bengals dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball in a bad weather game where Dorsey was grossly outcoached and had no idea how to run the ball in bad elements. 

2023 - We lost because (see recap above)

 

I get it...we ALL want Allen to have as many weapons as possible.  But this notion we havent won a Super Bowl because Beane ignored weapons for Josh is just not accurate IMHO and greatly exaggerated around here.  

 

Edited April 9 by Alphadawg7

[The Wiz]

Now some of the contracts that's he's given out, I can definitely get behind calling him out on.

[ColoradoBills]

Nobody is getting a pass, least off Brandon Beane.

 

He (and McD) are not going anywhere.  They are more than competent in their jobs.

IF they were fired teams from around the league would be lining up to hire them.

 

As Will Sonnet said, "No brag, just fact".

[T master]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Milano & T Johnson we're drafted by Whaley. Drafting Kincaid after we signed Knox to big money with LaPorta being drafted In the 2nd isn't a win either. Spector is JAG at this point

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/ranking-10-best-draft-picks-buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott-josh-allen-tredavious-white-matt-milano/

[Boatdrinks]

Does he get a pass ? He gets some praise and a fair amount of criticism as well. 

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, T master said:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/ranking-10-best-draft-picks-buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott-josh-allen-tredavious-white-matt-milano/

I thought Johnson was 2017 too, Beane was here for that, but Beane was hired after 2017 draft where we drafted White, Dawkins & Milano.
 

No, I don't billieve Beane was passing notes to McDermott from Carolinas war room.

[T master]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I thought Johnson was 2017 too, Beane was here for that, but Beane was hired after 2017 draft where we drafted White, Dawkins & Milano.
 

No, I don't billieve Beane was passing notes to McDermott from Carolinas war room.

 

No Beane wasn't passing him notes but McD was in charge of those drafts & he was telling Whaley who he wanted and was more than likely very influential in what Whaley did in getting there especially knowing what he did to get Watkins a couple years prior .

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not gonna go out of my way vehemently defending him. His failure to invest in WR and leave us in a desperate situation is worth criticizing. But I'm defending him under the assumption he is going to make a real investment at two starting WRs, whether in the draft or one of the remaining free agents or by trade. If he does, that will be two offseasons in a row where he finally made serious investments in pass catching weapons (although I am still totally confused about his failure to sign Hopkins last year). That tells me he has learned something even if it doesn't excuse past mistakes.

 

Also it's pretty undeniable that the Bills had a championship caliber roster at least once over the past 4 seasons. 2021 for sure, probably 2022 if not for a series of mishaps that befell the roster.

We shall see. It’s not just WR.

 

His dopey DL investments for the most part have been a disaster. 
 

The core 4 playmakers on the backend of the defense have been Hyde, Milano, Poyer, and White. They were all brought in prior to Beane’s GM tenure. Now you can argue that he kept them together and made their salaries work and that’s fair. But he wasn’t the driving force for their initial acquisition.

 

In fact, his other acquisitions have been littered with mild to moderate hits, and misses.

Edmunds was a massive disappointment based on draft status and investment.

 

Ed is a top 10 pick that just had the best year of his career and is signed up long term, so I consider that a W.

 

When you look at the roster during Beane’s tenure from when he got hired to today, he has done a good job at plugging in holes and rounding out the roster. The good to great talent infusion has not been there.

 

If you want to compare the regime to the Chiefs, we have been getting dogwalked in drafts and acquisitions compared to them. McDuffie is an All-Pro, Elam is a healthy scratch. Karlaftis is a double digit sack guy, Rousseau is a better version of Shaq Lawson. Cody Ford vs their IOL investment. It goes on and on. 

 

I would honestly argue that we have a QB comparable to Mahomes (even though I think Mahomes is a bit better but it’s closer to splitting hairs.) Their talent acquisition has crushed us. Maybe Allen can be great enough to overcome it in the biggest spots but he hasn’t yet and expecting him to just figure it out with a team that is aging out of championship caliber because our best players were acquired 7 years ago is not fair to him.

 

I’m harder on Allen than most, but I try to be fair. Allen’s competition isn’t 31 other QB’s it’s the other top 3-4.  Beane’s competition isn’t 31 other teams, it’s the top 3 or 4. 
 

We need both of them be better imo, but Beane is the one that has WAY more ground to cover.

Edited April 9 by FireChans