And we're on to.. Aiyuk?

[Saint Doug]

19 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

The Watkins situation is ancient history. It’s not pertinent to the current one at all. Besides, imagine if we had Josh when we drafted him. Probably a very different result.

Sammy didn’t blow up the league when he left. He was only a Bill for 3 seasons. But this really isn’t about Sammy Watkins. It’s a cautionary illustration that trading a bunch of draft picks for a non-QB draft pick is very risky. It’s pertinent to now because WR busts are not that infrequent. 

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Proven players cost $$$. Do the Bills have the money to spend. I know they are trying to fix their cap situation, but I thought it would be next offseason where they will have money to spend not this one.

It’s not my money, nor is it yours. As we have seen with this offseason, many things can be done. We all thought we would buried by the cap this offseason. That didn’t happen. Next, we thought Diggs could never be traded. It happened. Acquiring Auyik is likely possible. You would need to extend and restructure the contract to get the breathing room for this year and backload it to next year. 
 

It’s just that if we draft a bust, we’ll be in trouble. Our FO has no track record for identifying great WRs. Allen is in his prime and want something more definitive. 

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

People are soon to forget what happened with Sammy Watkins. We only moved up only 5 spots and gave up the following year’s 1st and a 4th. And he was basically a bust. Everyone panned Whaley for this move. Now, fast forward to 2024 and we are talking about trading an even higher number of picks for an unproven player. We can’t afford to experiment. Go after a proven player. 

Watkins partially busted because we had mediocre QBs, and he broke his foot (and was never the same after that). My understanding is he had some substance abuse issues in Buffalo, especially while sitting around with his injury.

 

We don’t have a mediocre QB now, and injuries are always a risk no matter what you do. Doesn’t seem relevant to our current situation.

[Mojo44]

7 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Sammy didn’t blow up the league when he left. He was only a Bill for 3 seasons. But this really isn’t about Sammy Watkins. It’s a cautionary illustration that trading a bunch of draft picks for a non-QB draft pick is very risky. It’s pertinent to now because WR busts are not that infrequent. 

That he didn’t blow up the league after he left does not in anyway diminish my point. Trading up for any position is “risky“. Using your logic, we should never have traded up to get Josh. You’re using a one off example that is not relevant. 

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

That he didn’t blow up the league after he left does not in anyway diminish my point. Trading up for any position is “risky“. Using your logic, we should never have traded up to get Josh. You’re using a one off example that is not relevant. 

Read again please. “It’s a cautionary illustration that trading a bunch of draft picks for a non-QB draft pick is very risky.”

[Mojo44]

4 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

Read again please. “It’s a cautionary illustration that trading a bunch of draft picks for a non-QB draft pick is very risky.”

I got it. Read my post again. Trading up for any position is risky. Actually, trading up for a quarterback is even more risky than any other position. If you miss it you set the team back possibly years.The Sammy Watkins example is old and tiresome. It really doesn’t apply here. This is not Doug Whaley making decisions. Don’t forget that. If it’s an illustration, with respect, it’s a markedly poor one. The Sammy Watkins “example” needs to go away.

Edited April 5 by Mojo44

[Thrivefourfive]

He’s not a WR1 because he’s slow. He’s an awesome football player and an asset to any team. He’d be misused as a 1. No team schemes better than SF except KC, so anywhere else, BA11 will be less than what he is now. 
 

As a 2, his skills and uniqueness shine.

 

Sure, you can force the ball to a slower, solid, disgruntled WR, but let’s not run that one back just yet.  

[Toyo321]

Agreed, BA11 is really not a good option for this team for 2024, the draft is our friend....

Edited April 6 by Toyo321

[Jrb1979]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:23 AM, Saint Doug said:

It’s not my money, nor is it yours. As we have seen with this offseason, many things can be done. We all thought we would buried by the cap this offseason. That didn’t happen. Next, we thought Diggs could never be traded. It happened. Acquiring Auyik is likely possible. You would need to extend and restructure the contract to get the breathing room for this year and backload it to next year. 
 

It’s just that if we draft a bust, we’ll be in trouble. Our FO has no track record for identifying great WRs. Allen is in his prime and want something more definitive. 

It's not possible with the cap space they have left. Face it whoever they draft at WR is going to be it. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:54 AM, Mojo44 said:

The Watkins situation is ancient history. It’s not pertinent to the current one at all. Besides, imagine if we had Josh when we drafted him. Probably a very different result.

Huh?  He played with McVay and Goff, then Mahomes, Rodgers, and Lamar.

 

How many MVPs does he have to play with to reach his potential?  
 

LOL

[FireChans]

The savvy move would’ve been trading the pick that was gonna be James Cook for Aiyuk 2 years ago when he was in Shanny’s doghouse and rumored to be firmly on the block.

 

But then, you would have had to know that WR was a crippling need 2 off seasons ago.

Edited April 6 by FireChans

[Mojo44]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Huh?  He played with McVay and Goff, then Mahomes, Rodgers, and Lamar.

 

How many MVPs does he have to play with to reach his potential?  
 

LOL

Think for a second. What if he was drafted under the current regime. Regardless of what happened after he left here as damaged goods, it’s not inconceivable that he could have fulfilled his potential. I’m laughing back at you. And this is all besides the point anyway. The whole point of my posts on this matter is that this was 10 years ago and posters still use it as a cautionary tale to not trade up to get a wide receiver. It’s just silly reasoning.

[Saint Doug]

11 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Think for a second. What if he was drafted under the current regime. Regardless of what happened after he left here as damaged goods, it’s not inconceivable that he could have fulfilled his potential. I’m laughing back at you. And this is all besides the point anyway. The whole point of my posts on this matter is that this was 10 years ago and posters still use it as a cautionary tale to not trade up to get a wide receiver. It’s just silly reasoning.

Because you just don’t get it. It doesn’t matter who drafted Sammy. The risk still remains. Josh Allen will be 28 when the season starts. You would like to blow our load on hope. Hope isn’t a sound strategy. What happens after 2-3 years when we realize the guy is a bust? That’s 2-3 more years of Josh down the drain.
 

Due to Allen’s contract, this team has holes and will always need to plug them via the draft. If you want to mortgage our future, do it on proven players. Otherwise, draft a couple WR in the 1st and 2nd. Leave next year’s picks alone. 

[Mojo44]

6 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Because you just don’t get it. It doesn’t matter who drafted Sammy. The risk still remains. Josh Allen will be 28 when the season starts. You would like to blow our load on hope. Hope isn’t a sound strategy. What happens after 2-3 years when we realize the guy is a bust? That’s 2-3 more years of Josh down the drain.
 

Due to Allen’s contract, this team has holes and will always need to plug them via the draft. If you want to mortgage our future, do it on proven players. Otherwise, draft a couple WR in the 1st and 2nd. Leave next year’s picks alone. 

I really don’t know what you’re talking about here. You’re not making any sense. It’s a simple point. Try to understand it. A one off example that occurred 10 years ago is not predictive of anything, certainly now. As I have said in my recent post on this issue, it’s always a risk to trade up for ANY pick. This is not about Josh Allen’s contract or when we should draft a one or two wide receivers. It’s simply about using this 10 year old ancient history example. So I guess we never should’ve traded up to get Dalton Kincaid? You see it goes both ways. A better way to make your point would be to provide some good empirical evidence that over the years trading up for any position, even wide receiver, usually doesn’t work. I doubt such evidence exists. But if you could find it I would love to see it. I am simply challenging your logic that using this ancient history example by itself means we absolutely shouldn’t trade up for a wide receiver. I do agree with you that it’s a risk. But that might be a risk worth taking. It sounds like you were suggesting that we should never do it. If I’m mistaken, please correct me.

[ToGoGo]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:23 AM, Saint Doug said:

It’s not my money, nor is it yours. As we have seen with this offseason, many things can be done. We all thought we would buried by the cap this offseason. That didn’t happen. Next, we thought Diggs could never be traded. It happened. Acquiring Auyik is likely possible. You would need to extend and restructure the contract to get the breathing room for this year and backload it to next year. 
 

It’s just that if we draft a bust, we’ll be in trouble. Our FO has no track record for identifying great WRs. Allen is in his prime and want something more definitive. 

Not totally true. Davis and Shakir are very good draft picks considering their round. Diggs was a home run trade. 
 

It’s really just a swing and a miss in Zay Jones, who has oddly carved out a nice career elsewhere and was before Beane. McCloud and Hodgins were late rounders with careers elsewhere. FA picks have been hit (Beasley, Brown, Sanders) or miss (Harry, Sherfield). 
 

So really, we haven’t seen Beane take a big swing yet except Diggs. Last time Beane had a desperate need he took Allen, so we should trust him here. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

Think for a second. What if he was drafted under the current regime. Regardless of what happened after he left here as damaged goods, it’s not inconceivable that he could have fulfilled his potential. I’m laughing back at you. And this is all besides the point anyway. The whole point of my posts on this matter is that this was 10 years ago and posters still use it as a cautionary tale to not trade up to get a wide receiver. It’s just silly reasoning.

So youre telling me Sammy was too mentally weak then, meaning he was always doomed.  He went on to play with 4 of the best coaching staffs in the NFL, 2 first Ballot HOFers, 3 multiple MVP winning QBs, and one of the best offense minds in football.  Yet you want to pretend because his start in Buffalo didn’t go perfect he was ruined forever?  Lol
 

But forget about Sammy.  Name one team in NFL history that won a Super Bowl from an expensive trade up (multiple premium picks) for a WR.  
 

In the last 20 years, only 2 SB winning teams had a WR1 taken in the first 20 picks…Mike Evans (taken after Sammy) and 18 years go Marvin Harrison.  
 

You want a cautionary tale, how about it’s worked 0% of the time in NFL history.  And that includes trading a bunch of picks for a proven one, not just rookies.  
 

This is maybe the best WR draft in NFL history too.  

Edited April 6 by Alphadawg7

[Jrb1979]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So youre telling me Sammy was too mentally weak then, meaning he was always doomed.  He went on to play with 4 of the best coaching staffs in the NFL, 2 first Ballot HOFers, 3 multiple MVP winning QBs, and one of the best offense minds in football.  Yet you want to pretend because his start in Buffalo didn’t go perfect he was ruined forever?  Lol
 

But forget about Sammy.  Name one team in NFL history that won a Super Bowl from an expensive trade up (multiple premium picks) for a WR.  
 

In the last 20 years, only 2 SB winning teams had a WR1 taken in the first 20 picks…Mike Evans (taken after Sammy) and 18 years go Marvin Harrison.  
 

You want a cautionary tale, how about it’s worked 0% of the time in NFL history.  And that includes trading a bunch of picks for a proven one, not just rookies.  
 

This is maybe the best WR draft in NFL history too.  

That's another reason for the Bills not to blow all their picks to move up for a WR. 

 

Why move up when you have Shakir who's going to be the best WR for the Bills. 🙄

Edited April 6 by Jrb1979

[78thealltimegreat]

Not starting any Bills speculation but I gotta admit on Day 3 after the Bills take a WR in the first to follow up a deal with Brandon for a 2025 pick or two wouldn’t be the worst thing 

 

 

Edited April 12 by 78thealltimegreat

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Not starting any Bills speculation but I gotta admit on Day 3 after the Bills take a WR in the first to follow up a deal with Brandon for a 2025 pick or two wouldn’t be the worst thing 

 

 

Meh, this kind of thing happens a lot. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Nice try, that’s Mike Tomlin.