FireChans Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 (edited) 11 minutes ago, SCBills said: Excluding QB, if we’re all being honest: Above average players, relative to their position -Daquan Jones -Ed Oliver -Greg Rousseau -Matt Milano -Terrell Bernard -Taron Johnson -Christian Benford -Rasul Douglas -James Cook -Dalton Kincaid Offensive Line is tricky to evaluate individually sometimes, but I do think we have an above average OL as a whole. Until proven otherwise.. Von, AJE, Edwards, Rapp, Shakir, Knox, Samuel are average relative to what other teams have. Where we come up short is in impact players. In our own division, Dolphins have Hill, Waddle and Ramsey (debatable). Jets have Wilson and Quinnen with pass rushers all over. If we step back off the ledge, we still have a lot of good to great players. The guys who have flashed elite levels are coming off injury (Von & Milano) and Oliver isn’t consistent enough to warrant this discussion yet. Kincaid could become a superstar this year, but we’re projecting. We’re not really bad at any position except WR, which we all expect to be addressed. Safety is a bit unnerving but it’s also the wheelhouse of our coach. I agree that we lack top end players and we have a stable of solid to good guys. I guess where I disagree is when you list EIGHT players (and including OL that’s probably closer to at least 10) that are above average and compare it to the rest of the league, that number is not really high either. It may be more than a couple of the bottom feeder teams. Lets compare it to the Bears, who of course, picked #1 last year because they were awful, and are picking top 10 this year. Above average players, relative to position: Keenan Allen DJ Moore Montez Sweat Swift Edmunds Jaylon Johnson Cole Kmet Brisker/Byard? TJ Edwards And that’s not including OL, which admittedly I didn’t watch much of the Bears OL to have opinion. They are picking NINTH. They are currently a bottom 10 team. A year after picking FIRST. Being the worst team in football! Edited April 6 by FireChans Quote
Buffalo716 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 4 minutes ago, BananaB said: The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl on the backbone of their D. That doesn't mean they're winning a super bowl with Chad henne lol The bills have had top five NFL defenses for years now.. we've been number one in multiple categories It still takes the entire team on game day... Tyler bass went wide right... The defense gave up a field goal 2 years ago with 13 seconds It takes the entire team for 60 minutes 3 Quote
vincec Posted April 6 Posted April 6 9 minutes ago, SCBills said: Excluding QB, if we’re all being honest: Above average players, relative to their position -Daquan Jones -Ed Oliver -Greg Rousseau -Matt Milano -Terrell Bernard -Taron Johnson -Christian Benford -Rasul Douglas -James Cook -Dalton Kincaid Offensive Line is tricky to evaluate individually sometimes, but I do think we have an above average OL as a whole. Until proven otherwise.. Von, AJE, Edwards, Rapp, Shakir, Knox, Samuel are average relative to what other teams have. Where we come up short is in impact players. In our own division, Dolphins have Hill, Waddle and Ramsey (debatable). Jets have Wilson and Quinnen with pass rushers all over. If we step back off the ledge, we still have a lot of good to great players. The guys who have flashed elite levels are coming off injury (Von & Milano) and Oliver isn’t consistent enough to warrant this discussion yet. Kincaid could become a superstar this year, but we’re projecting. We’re not really below average at any position except WR, which we all expect to be addressed. Safety is a bit unnerving but it’s also the wheelhouse of our coach. EDGE is pretty volatile in its dependency on the recovery of Von Miller. I think you nailed it, except: I don’t think Benford is above average with respect to other CBs around the league. Just average. I’m also mixed on Cook. Yes, he’s a good receiving back but he can’t block and is an average rusher. Maybe that makes him slightly above average overall but it’s close, IMO. I would say that as the roster sits right now, WR, Edge and safety are certainly below average, and it’s going to be hard to address all three with solid new starters before next season. Quote
SCBills Posted April 6 Posted April 6 (edited) 6 minutes ago, FireChans said: I agree that we lack top end players and we have a stable of solid to good guys. I guess where I disagree is when you list EIGHT players (and including OL that’s probably closer to at least 10) that are above average and compare it to the rest of the league, that number is not really high either. It may be more than a couple of the bottom feeder teams. Lets compare it to the Bears, who of course, picked #1 last year because they were awful, and are picking top 10 this year. Above average players, relative to position: Keenan Allen DJ Moore Montez Sweat Swift Edmunds Jaylon Johnson Cole Kmet Brisker/Byard? TJ Edwards And that’s not including OL, which admittedly I didn’t watch much of the Bears OL to have opinion. They are picking NINTH. They are currently a bottom 10 team. A year after picking FIRST. Being the worst team in football! I listed 10 guys, excluding QB and OL. Id say we’re probably average to (slightly) above average roster wise in comparison to the league, outside QB. Mainly because there’s a lot of bad OL’s and I think ours is pretty decent. But yea, the difference between us and a lot of teams is Josh Allen. But then the difference between the Chiefs and us has been impact players and coaching. 2 minutes ago, vincec said: I think you nailed it, except: I don’t think Benford is above average with respect to other CBs around the league. Just average. I’m also mixed on Cook. Yes, he’s a good receiving back but he can’t block and is an average rusher. Maybe that makes him slightly above average overall but it’s close, IMO. I would say that as the roster sits right now, WR, Edge and safety are certainly below average, and it’s going to be hard to address all three with solid new starters before next season. I hesitated on Benford, but his metrics indicate he’s a high level player. I could go either way on him. This season should probably tell the tale of what he truly is. James Cook.. I listed him as above average, because I think most around the league would say that .. but I share the sentiment of being meh on his game. Mainly because he’s actually a good RB, but his RD2 skillset was in pass catching which has been erratic. Edited April 6 by SCBills Quote
FireChans Posted April 6 Author Posted April 6 5 minutes ago, SCBills said: I listed 10 guys, excluding QB and OL. Id say we’re probably average to (slightly) above average roster wise in comparison to the league, outside QB. Mainly because there’s a lot of bad OL’s and I think ours is pretty decent. But yea, the difference between us and a lot of teams is Josh Allen. But then the difference between the Chiefs and us has been impact players and coaching. I hesitated on Benford, but his metrics indicate he’s a high level player. I could go either way on him. This season should probably tell the tale of what he truly is. James Cook.. I listed him as above average, because I think most around the league would say that .. but I share the sentiment of being meh on his game. Mainly because he’s actually a good RB, but his RD2 skillset was in pass catching which has been erratic. clearly I can’t count. 1 Quote
Dr. Who Posted April 6 Posted April 6 (edited) 9 minutes ago, vincec said: I think you nailed it, except: I don’t think Benford is above average with respect to other CBs around the league. Just average. I’m also mixed on Cook. Yes, he’s a good receiving back but he can’t block and is an average rusher. Maybe that makes him slightly above average overall but it’s close, IMO. I would say that as the roster sits right now, WR, Edge and safety are certainly below average, and it’s going to be hard to address all three with solid new starters before next season. Cook needs to stop the drops, but I think he's clearly above average. The positions you identify are correct. I still want them to add RB2 and OL help. It's a good draft for CB, too, so they should add one. WR is where they absolutely have to hit it out of the park. It's a terrible draft for edge, and mediocre at S. I kinda hope Beane circles back on Simmons after the draft, but Tykee Smith is a nice mid-round S. Edited April 6 by Dr. Who Quote
hikerprof2 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I've never understood the "Diggs has attitude" narrative except from what I've seen: he hates losing. I think we need more players like that, not less. And now we have none. Josh plays like he hates losing. Sometimes that leads to mistakes, sometimes heroics. But when we lose Josh isn't much of a leader. He develops that 1000 yard stare, that look like a kid you took off his Adderall and he just goes-blank. Not inspiring. Our coach claps after every play, good or bad, and his main leadership style when we lose is-find someone to lay the blame on. Still hasn't owned up to 13 seconds. I give credit to McDermott for bringing winning back to Buffalo and making us a playoff team. I'm not of the fire McDermott crowd because I don't have a better replacement. But if we win a Superbowl it's despite his leadership, not because of it. Matt Milano plays like he hates losing, but he's not vocal, Jordan Poyer also played like he hated losing, but he's physically done and gone. Von Miller isn't capable of playing like he hates losing anymore, though he had it once. The rest of our roster is made of above-average guys, but nobody exceptional. Maybe our new CB, Douglas. And I love watching the Bills win, and our winning seasons. I still have confidence there. But we are missing something to get us over KC and other teams are nipping at our heels. I think we are going to miss Diggs, and it would have been better to have one more year of Diggs and a rookie late first round WR who upgrades Gabe Davis then expecting a rookie to come in and play like a top five league wide WR. If you're a "believe in the great white hope" Kinkaid that was a nice pickup, but he averages 9 yards per reception. He's not a game changer. And Curtis Samuel is a slot receiver-which we finally developed in Khalil Shakir. Going into next year if we are lucky we will have a #2 receiver in our rookie, two exceptional #3 receivers in Khalil and Samuel, a #4 in Hollins, and two tight ends we don't know how to use. The strategy to earn 11 yards per 3 downs (out to Kinkaid for 8, Cook runs for -2 to 1 yars as they know he is coming on second down, Josh has to bull ahead for 1-4 yards every 3 down) no chunk yardage, move down the field slowly- will get Josh injured and often leaves more room for offensive turnovers. It didn't work last year when KC at will can gain 20 yards a play. 1 3 2 1 Quote
Augie Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Has anyone thought of what would have happened if he failed his physical or something and was returned to sender??? 😂 😂 😂 Quote
That's No Moon Posted April 6 Posted April 6 1 minute ago, Augie said: Has anyone thought of what would have happened if he failed his physical or something and was returned to sender??? 😂 😂 😂 Players only fail physicals if the receiving team wants them to fail the physical. Quote
Dr. Who Posted April 6 Posted April 6 6 minutes ago, hikerprof2 said: I've never understood the "Diggs has attitude" narrative except from what I've seen: he hates losing. I think we need more players like that, not less. And now we have none. Josh plays like he hates losing. Sometimes that leads to mistakes, sometimes heroics. But when we lose Josh isn't much of a leader. He develops that 1000 yard stare, that look like a kid you took off his Adderall and he just goes-blank. Not inspiring. Our coach claps after every play, good or bad, and his main leadership style when we lose is-find someone to lay the blame on. Still hasn't owned up to 13 seconds. I give credit to McDermott for bringing winning back to Buffalo and making us a playoff team. I'm not of the fire McDermott crowd because I don't have a better replacement. But if we win a Superbowl it's despite his leadership, not because of it. Matt Milano plays like he hates losing, but he's not vocal, Jordan Poyer also played like he hated losing, but he's physically done and gone. Von Miller isn't capable of playing like he hates losing anymore, though he had it once. The rest of our roster is made of above-average guys, but nobody exceptional. Maybe our new CB, Douglas. And I love watching the Bills win, and our winning seasons. I still have confidence there. But we are missing something to get us over KC and other teams are nipping at our heels. I think we are going to miss Diggs, and it would have been better to have one more year of Diggs and a rookie late first round WR who upgrades Gabe Davis then expecting a rookie to come in and play like a top five league wide WR. If you're a "believe in the great white hope" Kinkaid that was a nice pickup, but he averages 9 yards per reception. He's not a game changer. And Curtis Samuel is a slot receiver-which we finally developed in Khalil Shakir. Going into next year if we are lucky we will have a #2 receiver in our rookie, two exceptional #3 receivers in Khalil and Samuel, a #4 in Hollins, and two tight ends we don't know how to use. The strategy to earn 11 yards per 3 downs (out to Kinkaid for 8, Cook runs for -2 to 1 yars as they know he is coming on second down, Josh has to bull ahead for 1-4 yards every 3 down) no chunk yardage, move down the field slowly- will get Josh injured and often leaves more room for offensive turnovers. It didn't work last year when KC at will can gain 20 yards a play. If Diggs had not become utterly toxic in the locker room, they wouldn't have traded him. It's surmise, because they aren't explicitly declaring what the problems were, but Beane's actions give credence to that opinion. Whether he was injured or not, the second half of last year and the post-season is not much to miss. If he had indeed become that kind of distraction and emotional sink, I don't think he'll be all that missed. "The Great White hope" is rather repulsive rhetoric. Kincaid, spell his name correctly, maybe, flashed enough in his rookie year to be a genuine source of optimism. It's not manufactured, and he can be a game changer. He's not a field stretcher, but he has pretty good range for a big slot. He also has a feel for the open spaces. Curtis Samuel is a swiss-army knife type. To simply peg him as a redundant slot is not quite accurate. In general, your attempt to paint a worst-case-scenario is somewhat tendentious. They will add a RB2 and at least one and probably 2 WR. If they go up and get one of the top 3, that is not a "lucky to have WR2" situation. 4 3 Quote
Jrb1979 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: If Diggs had not become utterly toxic in the locker room, they wouldn't have traded him. It's surmise, because they aren't explicitly declaring what the problems were, but Beane's actions give credence to that opinion. Whether he was injured or not, the second half of last year and the post-season is not much to miss. If he had indeed become that kind of distraction and emotional sink, I don't think he'll be all that missed. "The Great White hope" is rather repulsive rhetoric. Kincaid, spell his name correctly, maybe, flashed enough in his rookie year to be a genuine source of optimism. It's not manufactured, and he can be a game changer. He's not a field stretcher, but he has pretty good range for a big slot. He also has a feel for the open spaces. Curtis Samuel is a swiss-army knife type. To simply peg him as a redundant slot is not quite accurate. In general, your attempt to paint a worst-case-scenario is somewhat tendentious. They will add a RB2 and at least one and probably 2 WR. If they go up and get one of the top 3, that is not a "lucky to have WR2" situation. Again it's still a bunch of JAGs on offense. It works on the regular season but you need that elite talent to win when it matters. 1 1 Quote
Dr. Who Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Just now, Jrb1979 said: Again it's still a bunch of JAGs on offense. It works on the regular season but you need that elite talent to win when it matters. Maybe we have a different definition of JAG. I don't think Kincaid or Cook are JAGS. Regardless, what's the point of analyzing the offensive weapons before the draft, when it is apparent that Beane traded Diggs with an eye to upgrading the WR room in the draft? 1 Quote
BananaB Posted April 6 Posted April 6 36 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: That doesn't mean they're winning a super bowl with Chad henne lol The bills have had top five NFL defenses for years now.. we've been number one in multiple categories It still takes the entire team on game day... Tyler bass went wide right... The defense gave up a field goal 2 years ago with 13 seconds It takes the entire team for 60 minutes Maybe not but it helps. You said they only go as far as Mahommes takes them but last season their winning had more to do with their D then Mahommes. If their D don’t play lights out they don’t win, plain and simple. Bills problem is that regular season top 5 D has not lived up to hype in games we have got eliminated. 3 playoff games against Mahommes, not one sack or Int. 1 turnover. The game against Bengals they walked down the field with ease to score back to back tds. They did the same this year against them too and they were on their way to doing it the game Hamlin went down. D is soft when we need them most. Quote
julian Posted April 6 Posted April 6 33 minutes ago, hikerprof2 said: I've never understood the "Diggs has attitude" narrative except from what I've seen: he hates losing. I think we need more players like that, not less. And now we have none. Josh plays like he hates losing. Sometimes that leads to mistakes, sometimes heroics. But when we lose Josh isn't much of a leader. He develops that 1000 yard stare, that look like a kid you took off his Adderall and he just goes-blank. Not inspiring. Our coach claps after every play, good or bad, and his main leadership style when we lose is-find someone to lay the blame on. Still hasn't owned up to 13 seconds. I give credit to McDermott for bringing winning back to Buffalo and making us a playoff team. I'm not of the fire McDermott crowd because I don't have a better replacement. But if we win a Superbowl it's despite his leadership, not because of it. Matt Milano plays like he hates losing, but he's not vocal, Jordan Poyer also played like he hated losing, but he's physically done and gone. Von Miller isn't capable of playing like he hates losing anymore, though he had it once. The rest of our roster is made of above-average guys, but nobody exceptional. Maybe our new CB, Douglas. And I love watching the Bills win, and our winning seasons. I still have confidence there. But we are missing something to get us over KC and other teams are nipping at our heels. I think we are going to miss Diggs, and it would have been better to have one more year of Diggs and a rookie late first round WR who upgrades Gabe Davis then expecting a rookie to come in and play like a top five league wide WR. If you're a "believe in the great white hope" Kinkaid that was a nice pickup, but he averages 9 yards per reception. He's not a game changer. And Curtis Samuel is a slot receiver-which we finally developed in Khalil Shakir. Going into next year if we are lucky we will have a #2 receiver in our rookie, two exceptional #3 receivers in Khalil and Samuel, a #4 in Hollins, and two tight ends we don't know how to use. The strategy to earn 11 yards per 3 downs (out to Kinkaid for 8, Cook runs for -2 to 1 yars as they know he is coming on second down, Josh has to bull ahead for 1-4 yards every 3 down) no chunk yardage, move down the field slowly- will get Josh injured and often leaves more room for offensive turnovers. It didn't work last year when KC at will can gain 20 yards a play. The HOF has plenty of white TEs, the league as it stands now with Kelce, Kittle, Laporta and many others is represented by top end TE talent. Not sure why “the great white hope” catch phrase is relevant, if Kincaid were a RB or CB then I guess it applies but TE ? Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I'm honestly tired of all the speculative bull ****. His ass is gone, who cares why it changes nothing. Time to move on and look forward to the draft. 1 1 Quote
Mr. WEO Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I can’t even begin to imagine the relief Josh Allen is feeling right now. 1 1 1 Quote
PBF81 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: That doesn't mean they're winning a super bowl with Chad henne lol The bills have had top five NFL defenses for years now.. we've been number one in multiple categories It still takes the entire team on game day... Tyler bass went wide right... The defense gave up a field goal 2 years ago with 13 seconds It takes the entire team for 60 minutes It's interesting that you say this. McD is heralded as a defensive guy, guru type/expert by some. And while regular season is one thing, playoffs are really another notably more important one. Over the past three years, KC with their 8th, 16th, and 2nd ranked Defense, has allowed an average of 21.9 PPG in the playoffs. Over the past three years, us with our 1st, 2nd, and 4th ranked Defenses, we've allowed an average of 25.8 PPG in the playoffs. KC has faced the following QBs: Allen twice, Burrow twice, Jackson, Hurts, Lawrence, Tua, Purdy, and a washed up Roethlisburger in his last game ever. We've faced the following QBs: Mahomes twice, Burrow, Mason Rudolph, Skylar Thompson, and Mac Jones. 8 of KC's 10 playoff games over the past three seasons they held their opponents to 24 or fewer points. Half, 5, to 21 or fewer. 2 of 6 of our playoff games over the past three season we held out opponents to under 27 points. Mason Rudolph and Mac Jones. FWIW But it's reasonable to question why our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked Ds can't come close to performing like KC's 8th, 16th, and 2nd ranked Ds can. It's not just the offense. It's great that we have top ranked Ds in to win the regular season, but why the massive dropoff in the playoffs. We do not rank favorably generally speaking in relation to all teams in terms of playoff defense. 1 Quote
Simon Posted April 6 Posted April 6 31 minutes ago, PBF81 said: But it's reasonable to question why our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked Ds can't come close to performing like KC's 8th, 16th, and 2nd ranked Ds can. It's a fiendishly complicated question. Perhaps we should ask Von Miller, Tre White, Matt Milano, Micah Hyde, Terrel Bernard, Christian Benford and Daquan Jones if they have any thoughts on the matter. 1 1 Quote
Jrb1979 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 2 minutes ago, Simon said: It's a fiendishly complicated question. Perhaps we should ask Von Miller, Tre White, Matt Milano, Micah Hyde, Terrel Bernard, Christian Benford and Daquan Jones if they have any thoughts on the matter. Not really that complicated. None of those guys are playmakers. They are great as a group but none are on the level of a Jones in KC or Snead. 1 Quote
RochesterLifer Posted April 6 Posted April 6 2 hours ago, hikerprof2 said: I've never understood the "Diggs has attitude" narrative except from what I've seen: he hates losing. I think we need more players like that, not less. And now we have none. This view of Diggs has always had me shaking my head. "He's a competitor," "he's a warrior," "he hates losing". Let's paint him for what he is, he enthusiastically rides the bandwagon. When the going was good, he performed and strutted all over the place. I agree, he gave us 3.5 very good regular seasons. When the going got tough, he pouted, threw a major public temper-tantrum, pointed fingers, and went to the sideline on 3rd downs. What he didn't didn't do was fight for the team, perform in the playoffs, or come through in difficult situations. When it comes to true team-focused warriors, he can't hold Josh's jockstrap. He's a pretty little diva and his time has passed. I'm looking forward to the Bills' next chapter. 2 3 Quote
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