Diggs traded to Texans for picks

[khlax3]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Samuel and Davis are very different players.  Davis was trying to be that Boundary Guy and he really didn't get it done when asked to be that clever route runner over the middle.  Samuel had his best year, with Joe Brady, playing something like 70+% of his snaps from the slot.  I think a more realistic hope is that he'll be the Beasley replacement Crowder and McKenzie were supposed to be.

 

I really like how Shakir came on last year and how Kincaid looked as a rookie - so smooth!  But I think it's a long stretch to think Kincaid can replace Diggs.

 

But with all respect, here's the thing: I think this "Jenga Game" with WR where the Bills (not just you) look at WR and argue something like "Davis sure looked All World in the playoffs against the Colts in 2020 and against KC in 2021.  And McKenzie has been stuck behind Beasley on the depth chart, but he seized his opportunity and showed what he could do against NWE and earlier against the Dolphins.   So we don't need to "splash" in FA or in the draft this year.

We project from what guys can do in an occasional game or while the D is focused on someone else.  The Bills seem to do this, too.

 

It doesn't necessarily work that way, though.

 

 

Not saying these guys are 1 to 1 replacements but I think they can replace the production those guys offered. I truly think Brady wants to get away from that 1a type receiver that we force the ball to and gets 160 targets. I could very well see the hall spread all over with maybe no one getting 1000 yards but 3-4 guys all getting around 50-70 catches for 900 yards. 
 

I think people are getting caught up to much on what positioning these guys play (inside/outside) Samuel, Kincaid, and Shakir can line up anywhere. Cook can split out wide and Knox is pretty versatile too. For red zone your have Knox, Kincaid and Hollins who are all big targets. 
 

I think what got us into trouble in the first half of last year was trying to force it to diggs. In the second half when diggs really didn’t look like a number 1 and they were spreading the ball around diggs, Kincaid, and Shakir all had similar numbers 

[Radar]

1 minute ago, khlax3 said:

Not saying these guys are 1 to 1 replacements but I think they can replace the production those guys offered. I truly think Brady wants to get away from that 1a type receiver that we force the ball to and gets 160 targets. I could very well see the hall spread all over with maybe no one getting 1000 yards but 3-4 guys all getting around 50-70 catches for 900 yards. 
 

I think people are getting caught up to much on what positioning these guys play (inside/outside) Samuel, Kincaid, and Shakir can line up anywhere. Cook can split out wide and Knox is pretty versatile too. For red zone your have Knox, Kincaid and Hollins who are all big targets. 
 

I think what got us into trouble in the first half of last year was trying to force it to diggs. In the second half when diggs really didn’t look like a number 1 and they were spreading the ball around diggs, Kincaid, and Shakir all had similar numbers 

I tend to agree. Spread the ball around and look at a control game utilizing the run as well.

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

I don't think they were, which is hilarious.  Either way, this trade looks a lot better now

 

I'm surprised we got more than a 4th given it's a 1 year rental and he probably signs with Dallas 

 

So some pundits are already re-evaluating after Houston re-tooled the contract

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/4/5/24121898/stefon-diggs-trade-houston-texans-cj-stroud-buffalo-bills

 

Quote

Again, the motivation for acquiring Diggs is obvious. But what’s not so clear is why the Texans gave up a future second-round pick for him and agreed to void the final three years of his contract. Those are the first of several questions about what looked like a reasonable trade for both sides on Wednesday, but now seems to be more of a puzzling move for the Texans.

 

Quote

The Texans essentially moved down 19 spots, from no. 23 to no. 42, to acquire Diggs [edit: this is talking about the Texans trade with the Vikes in which they sent their 1st round #23 pick to Minn for Minn's #42 2nd round pick this season, and their 2025 2nd rounder which they then traded to B'lo for Diggs] , who had four years remaining on the extension he signed with Buffalo two years ago. Initially, it seemed like a home run trade for Houston because Diggs’s contract with Buffalo was both affordable and team friendly. His scheduled cap hit of $19.05 million in 2024 would have ranked 13th among receivers, and there was no guaranteed money left after this year, meaning the Texans would have had the option to keep Diggs or move on after seeing how things worked out in the upcoming season.

 

But it turns out that the contract isn’t team friendly at all. It’s the opposite, as ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on Thursday:

 

The article goes on to analyze Digg's usage and results  during the 2023 Bills season - recommend giving it a read.

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I'm not a Houston fan at all. I'm just tired of every time a guy leaves the fanbase turns on them and calls the team the go to crap. 

Poyer - 99% of us LOVE

 

Gabe - Fans will give him a standing ovation next time we see him 

 

Morse - (See above for Gabe)

 

Tre - People in the stands will probably cry next time they see him in person if the team recognizes him, which they will

 

Singletary - Fans were all rooting for this year

 

Edmunds and Diggs are the two that we’ve dumped on.. One because he just wasn’t worth his contract projection, but no real ill will from fans.

 

The fan reaction to Diggs is different for a reason .. and plenty are still wishing him well. 
 

And yea.. we all hope Houston somehow becomes a train wreck, why on earth would we not?

Edited April 5 by SCBills

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I'm not a Houston fan at all. I'm just tired of every time a guy leaves the fanbase turns on them and calls the team the go to crap. 

 

First of all, no one is calling Houston "crap".  Everyone here recognizes they've got an excellent-looking young QB and are a team on the rise.  They could be the 2020 Bills.
 

Second, "every time a guy leaves"?  Nonsense.  We wished Jerry Hughes and Singletary well, going to the Texans.  Wished Moss well with the Colts.  McKenzie got dunked on, but then he got dunked on while he was here, no one dunked on the Colts.  Edmunds - mixed reactions mostly "not worth that contract" followed by "but who we got at MLB?" Hodgins - rampant and disproportionate nostalgia.  Beasley - gratitude for what he'd done for the team and Josh, mixed reactions between people who thought he'd been "done wrong" for his personal views and people who thought he was "done" and it was time.   Tre' White - tears.  Gabe Davis and Mitch Morse - total respect.
 

And don't get me started on Wyatt Teller.

You're either not being truthful to us, or not truthful to yourself.

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Poyer - 99% of us LOVE

 

Gabe - Fans will give him a standing ovation next time we see him 

 

Morse - (See above for Gabe)

 

Tre - People in the stands will probably cry next time they see him in person if the team recognizes him, which they will

 

Singletary - Fans were all rooting for this year

 

Edmunds and Diggs are the two that we’ve dumped on.. One because he just wasn’t worth his contract projection, but no real ill will from fans.

 

The fan reaction to Diggs is different for a reason .. and plenty are still wishing him well. 
 

And yea.. we all hope Houston somehow becomes a train wreck, why on earth would we not?

Agree, 

 

 The grass was always greener on the other side for Diggs,

 

go graze in Texas with your bro... 

 

 

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Not saying these guys are 1 to 1 replacements but I think they can replace the production those guys offered. I truly think Brady wants to get away from that 1a type receiver that we force the ball to and gets 160 targets. I could very well see the hall spread all over with maybe no one getting 1000 yards but 3-4 guys all getting around 50-70 catches for 900 yards. 
 

I think people are getting caught up to much on what positioning these guys play (inside/outside) Samuel, Kincaid, and Shakir can line up anywhere. Cook can split out wide and Knox is pretty versatile too. For red zone your have Knox, Kincaid and Hollins who are all big targets. 
 

I think what got us into trouble in the first half of last year was trying to force it to diggs. In the second half when diggs really didn’t look like a number 1 and they were spreading the ball around diggs, Kincaid, and Shakir all had similar numbers 

 

With all respect, that's not enough.  4 guys getting 900 yds is 3,600 yds.  That would represent a 700 yd dip in what was already a second "down year" for Allen with only 4300 yds passing.

 

It would also be asking a 7 year vet to exceed his previous career year (possible), asking Shakir AND Kincaid to jump 50% in their production, AND asking a 3rd guy to step into the mix and push 1000 yds.

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

With all respect, that's not enough.  4 guys getting 900 yds is 3,600 yds.  That would represent a 700 yd dip in what was already a second "down year" for Allen with only 4300 yds passing.

 

It would also be asking a 7 year vet to exceed his previous career year (possible), asking Shakir AND Kincaid to jump 50% in their production, AND asking a 3rd guy to step into the mix and push 1000 yds.

A huge jump in production from Shakir is not unreasonable. He had excellent metrics in 2022. All he needs is an increase in targets. When you look at the 2023 receiving stats, he really jumps off the page as a guy that deserves more targets. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

With all respect, that's not enough.  4 guys getting 900 yds is 3,600 yds.  That would represent a 700 yd dip in what was already a second "down year" for Allen with only 4300 yds passing.

 

It would also be asking a 7 year vet to exceed his previous career year (possible), asking Shakir AND Kincaid to jump 50% in their production, AND asking a 3rd guy to step into the mix and push 1000 yds.

I'm expecting even more of a turn towards the run game. 

 

Both Brady and McD like to run the football IMO. 

 

The same can be said about Josh...

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

23 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Not saying these guys are 1 to 1 replacements but I think they can replace the production those guys offered. I truly think Brady wants to get away from that 1a type receiver that we force the ball to and gets 160 targets. I could very well see the hall spread all over with maybe no one getting 1000 yards but 3-4 guys all getting around 50-70 catches for 900 yards. 
 

I think people are getting caught up to much on what positioning these guys play (inside/outside) Samuel, Kincaid, and Shakir can line up anywhere. Cook can split out wide and Knox is pretty versatile too. For red zone your have Knox, Kincaid and Hollins who are all big targets. 
 

I think what got us into trouble in the first half of last year was trying to force it to diggs. In the second half when diggs really didn’t look like a number 1 and they were spreading the ball around diggs, Kincaid, and Shakir all had similar numbers 

Of course these guys can line up at all positions.  The key point is what impact they have from that position on field.

 

Right now, we have nobody that is a downfield threat.  It'd be nice to have 1 legit and another reliable option.

 

I'm fine with spreading targets and agree that's what Brady seems to want to have happen. 

 

But I truly hope Brady doesn't turn this offense into a dink/dunk team.  JMO, but I don't think Josh is accurate OR consistent enough to be a Brady/Brees type.  Too many turnovers/inconsistency. 

 

We need some more of Dabolls downfield passing scheme integrated, to be more balanced.  We need more "homeruns" in this offense, or at least be more explosive.  Redzone conversion rate has been inconsistent at best, past 2 years.  We lack identity as of now...I hope Beane can find 2 legit threats in this loaded WR class.

[8BallSippin]

Wishful thinking that he will produce as a elite #1 again is folly.  Things often gets worse before they get better, and this is the start.

 

Let get:

 

Younger

Faster 

A Roster full of Guys who WANT to be Here

 

Thanks Stephon, best of luck in the future

Edited April 5 by 8BallSippin

[Herc11]

https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1776280133759844419?t=0mLfZ9s-US5O7MqrKFUzAQ&s=19

[Buffalo716]

39 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Poyer - 99% of us LOVE

 

Gabe - Fans will give him a standing ovation next time we see him 

 

Morse - (See above for Gabe)

 

Tre - People in the stands will probably cry next time they see him in person if the team recognizes him, which they will

 

Singletary - Fans were all rooting for this year

 

Edmunds and Diggs are the two that we’ve dumped on.. One because he just wasn’t worth his contract projection, but no real ill will from fans.

 

The fan reaction to Diggs is different for a reason .. and plenty are still wishing him well. 
 

And yea.. we all hope Houston somehow becomes a train wreck, why on earth would we not?

Diggs literally did nothing wrong in his time here

 

Voted captain etc

 

The media drummed up everything... And turned little molehills in the mountains over the last 2 years

 

He has never said anything bad about the Bills or the organization or Buffalo.. and he should be getting a standing ovation on the way out

 

Because he's the best wide receiver here in 30 years and he was great for Josh Allen's development

[8BallSippin]

5 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

https://twitter.com/jasrifootball/status/1776280133759844419?t=0mLfZ9s-US5O7MqrKFUzAQ&s=19

 

"the Bills are trying to prove they don't need him"

 

never thought of it that way...... interesting

[Logic]

@Herc11 just posted a snippet of this above, but for those that haven't listened, you really should (at least to the part that Herc linked to above).

It tells a previously untold anecdote about Diggs coming up to Josh after the week 1 Jets game, when his spirits were really low, and saying something quietly to him (the reporters couldn't hear what) that made Josh flip out on him and shout "IT'S ONLY ONE ***** GAME!". Graham says everyone else was consoling Allen, dapping him up, encouraging him, and along came Diggs, saying something that pissed him right off.

Just interesting, and as far as I know, previously unreported up until now.

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

With all respect, that's not enough.  4 guys getting 900 yds is 3,600 yds.  That would represent a 700 yd dip in what was already a second "down year" for Allen with only 4300 yds passing.

 

It would also be asking a 7 year vet to exceed his previous career year (possible), asking Shakir AND Kincaid to jump 50% in their production, AND asking a 3rd guy to step into the mix and push 1000 yds.

 

That assumes that only 4 people catch footballs. in 2023 13 different players caught footballs for the Bills. 9 of them had double digit receptions. 9 players could make up 700 yards. 

The top 4 WR for the Bills last year had 3200 yards combined. 400 yards less than your "not good enough" prognostication for 2024. The bottom 9 of 13 players who caught footballs in 2023 contributed nearly 1100 yards. 

So if the Bills get similar production from the bottom of the roster, @khlax3 scenario actually mean it would be an improvement from 2023. 
 

You are also way overplaying the difference between a 4300 and 4500 yard season. There is certainly a discussion to be had about why one season is better or worse than another for Josh, but the 200 yard difference in passing is way down the list of things worth mentioning. 

There is room to color outside the lines on what OP is saying without taking it so literally. The Bills passing game will likely have more equitable distribution in 2024 and that may very well be a good thing. 

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

@Herc11 just posted a snippet of this above, but for those that haven't listened, you really should (at least to the part that Herc linked to above).

It tells a previously untold anecdote about Diggs coming up to Josh after the week 1 Jets game, when his spirits were really low, and saying something quietly to him (the reporters couldn't hear what) that made Josh flip out on him and shout "IT'S ONLY ONE ***** GAME!". Graham says everyone else was consoling Allen, dapping him up, encouraging him, and along came Diggs, saying something that pissed him right off.

Just interesting, and as far as I know, previously unreported up until now.

it is sad that our media are so small and tiny like this they don't report the stories like they should.

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

it is sad that our media are so small and tiny like this they don't report the stories like they should.

Graham claims he didn't report it at the time because he couldn't hear what Diggs actually said, and that for all he knew it could have been a compliment/praise that hit Allen the wrong way (though unlikely). 

He says he wishes, in retrospect, that he had reported that incident at the time. To be honest, though, what good would it have done the Bills? I'm kind of glad he didn't.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Or, in his case, the dropping game. 

By my count Cook dropped 4 easy TD catches and on only one of the drives that he dropped a TD pass did we go on a score a TD.  So yes those drops did hurt us.  But Cook also made some big plays in the passing game. My expectation is that he will work on the drops reducing them.  At the same time as he gains more confidence in a pro passing attack his big plays will balloon in number.

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

Graham claims he didn't report it at the time because he couldn't hear what Diggs actually said, and that for all he knew it could have been a compliment/praise that hit Allen the wrong way (though unlikely). 

He says he wishes, in retrospect, that he had reported that incident at the time. To be honest, though, what good would it have done the Bills? I'm kind of glad he didn't.

 

 

Graham has claimed a lot of things over the years, just like other "journalists" such as Johnny Wawrow, Jerry Sullivan, Bucky Gleason, etc.   

 

Who knows what actually happened