Diggs traded to Texans for picks

[NoSaint]

42 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Let me re-frame this:

Why do you think it was Diggs who chose the Texans?  Do you believe another team offered more and was rejected? 

 

Which brings up the follow-on question: If that's true, what was the leverage Diggs possessed that allowed him to choose?  Did Diggs have a trade approval clause in his contract?

“I’m going to tell them I’m not showing up if you send me to the panthers” is not pretty but would accomplish what he wants 

[khlax3]

1 hour ago, eme123 said:

The only number that matters is the score at the end. There are 53 guys that contribute to that. Since you asked here is the oh so important 2023 receiving stats. 
Diggs  107rec  1183yds  8td

Davis    45rec   746yds  7td

Kincaid  73rec   673yds  2td

Shakir    39rec   611yds   2td

Cook      44rec   445yds  4td

 

Pick and choose games all you want. The fact is the Bills are weaker on the fire power end of things without Diggs. 

Diggs is great no doubt but just looking at this Samuel should be able to put up Davis numbers pretty easily. I think kincaid could end up being close to Diggs numbers last year (maybe 90 catches for 1000). Shakir should be able to replicate Kincaid numbers from last year so you need a rookie to replace shakir’s 39 catches and 600 yards. Not really all that crazy.

 

 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

“I’m going to tell them I’m not showing up if you send me to the panthers” is not pretty but would accomplish what he wants 

 

It's a valid point that once the league year passed the point of guaranteeing Diggs $18.5M, he acquired that leverage.

 

I don't remember the point at which a player can be penalized for "failure to report", though I remember thinking it was surprisingly lenient.  But then, we all saw DeSean Watson getting paid to sit on the bench and not play for one entire season by the Texans.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Diggs is great no doubt but just looking at this Samuel should be able to put up Davis numbers pretty easily. I think kincaid could end up being close to Diggs numbers last year (maybe 90 catches for 1000). Shakir should be able to replicate Kincaid numbers from last year so you need a rookie to replace shakir’s 39 catches and 600 yards. Not really all that crazy.

 

Samuel and Davis are very different players.  Davis was trying to be that Boundary Guy and he really didn't get it done when asked to be that clever route runner over the middle.  Samuel had his best year, with Joe Brady, playing something like 70+% of his snaps from the slot.  I think a more realistic hope is that he'll be the Beasley replacement Crowder and McKenzie were supposed to be.

 

I really like how Shakir came on last year and how Kincaid looked as a rookie - so smooth!  But I think it's a long stretch to think Kincaid can replace Diggs.

 

But with all respect, here's the thing: I think this "Jenga Game" with WR where the Bills (not just you) look at WR and argue something like "Davis sure looked All World in the playoffs against the Colts in 2020 and against KC in 2021.  And McKenzie has been stuck behind Beasley on the depth chart, but he seized his opportunity and showed what he could do against NWE and earlier against the Dolphins.   So we don't need to "splash" in FA or in the draft this year.

We project from what guys can do in an occasional game or while the D is focused on someone else.  The Bills seem to do this, too.

 

It doesn't necessarily work that way, though.

 

 

[papazoid]

i think diggs will come to regret forcing his way out of buffalo.

 

4x pro bowler.....all and only with josh. the bills #1 target. beloved by most of the fan base.  he had it made here. elite QB,  a Top 5 team.

 

he has now been reduced to a 1 yr rental. if the texans had any intention of keeping him long term they wouldn't have made him a 2025 free agent.

 

he's on the wrong side of 30. unlikely he is #1 in targets for houston. his next stop will probably make less and win less.

 

dare i say....what an idiot

[Sweats]

The league has really seemed to go in the way of the short routes, dink and dunk, take what the D gives you type of O systems......as compared with previous years where long balls were being fired all over the field, all game long. 

Yes, we absolutely need a WR1 if not to only stretch the field, however, i see a lot of potential with the short routes with Kincaid, Shakir, Cook, etc.....I think this combination can be lethal and it seems a lot of the media are overlooking this recently with the whole Diggs drama.

 

We'll be fine.....i truly believe that.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, eme123 said:

Spoiler: He got old and useless in 7 days time. Remarkable. 

 

Innit though?

 

And here's the kicker: his VOLUME didn't go down one bit. Josh was STILL forcing the ball to the man, he just wasn't producing

 

And really, I couldn't give less of a ***** if it was attitude or what.

 

He was stealing money for 3/4ths of last year, and would have been stealing money this year.

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

I believe Shakir finished the season (last 8-10 games?) with a few more yards than Diggs. The thing that really jumps out is that Shakir did it on 38 targets, while Diggs had 80 targets. 

 

Correct

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Anyone making Diggs out to be a bum is just being a hater. Diggs was an elite route separator for Josh. He can still play at a high level.

 

But I don’t believe he ever made defenses change what they do. I don’t think he was ever that type of WR.

 

 

Oh I think he made defenses change what they wanted to do.   No doubt.   But the problem was that his finesse style didn't translate well to the postseason clutching and grabbing.  

 

There is a reason that Travis Kelce averages 15 yards per game more and has almost twice the TD production per game in the playoffs versus the regular season despite the Chiefs offense scoring less in general.    His game translates to flag-less football.   Diggs game goes the opposite direction,  less yardage and less TD/game.   

 

[Kaenon]

I guess whoever posted about Diggs being on the out because his hot sauce was being discontinued had their nose on the right path! Lol.

[SCBills]

I can’t lie when I say it’s kinda funny to watch Texans fans go from thinking they own the league to slowly realizing they gave up a potential Top 40 pick for a malcontent aging WR that’s now a rental & not comp pick eligible. 
 

 

Edited April 5 by SCBills

[EasternOHBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, papazoid said:

i think diggs will come to regret forcing his way out of buffalo.

 

4x pro bowler.....all and only with josh. the bills #1 target. beloved by most of the fan base.  he had it made here. elite QB,  a Top 5 team.

 

he has now been reduced to a 1 yr rental. if the texans had any intention of keeping him long term they wouldn't have made him a 2025 free agent.

 

he's on the wrong side of 30. unlikely he is #1 in targets for houston. his next stop will probably make less and win less.

 

dare i say....what an idiot

 

Nailed it... especially teamed up with Collins AND Dell.

[Nihilarian]

When you think about why Diggs wanted out of Minnesota it was because they were going to a run-first-oriented offense and Diggs knew he wasn't going to see the ball as often. He wanted out and got his way.

 

Now look at last season with Ken Dorsey calling plays vs Joe Brady. Dorsey made Diggs the passing focal point and the team wasn't winning games. 160 targets with 107 receptions, 1183 yards with a 66.9 catch percentage for the season. Well, let's look at what happened to the targets Diggs got after the OC change. 

 

In the Chiefs game in week 14, after the OT loss to the Eagles. Diggs, has 11 targets, for 4 receptions for 44 yards. The #1 targeted player, and yet only four catches. 

 

The next week against the Cowboys, Diggs 5 targets, and 4 receptions for 48 yards again the most targeted Buffalo receiver. 

 

The next week against the Chargers, Diggs 8 targets, and 5 receptions for 29 yards again the most targeted Buffalo receiver. Meanwhile, Gabe Davis went off with 6 targets for 4 receptions for 130 yards, 1 TD. Wow, those are some nice numbers! 

 

The next week against NE, Diggs 7 targets, for 4 receptions for 29 yards. Tied with Kincade with 7 targets for 4 receptions for 87 yards. 

 

The next week against Miami, 8 targets, 7 receptions for 87 yards. Tied with Kincade again with 8 targets for 7 receptions for 84 yards. Meanwhile, Shakir had 6 targets, and 6 receptions for 105 yards. 

 

The next week in the playoff game against the Steelers. Diggs 9 targets for 7 receptions for 52 yards. Again, the Bills leading targeted player. 

 

The next week in the playoffs against the Chiefs, Diggs 8 targets, and 3 receptions for 21 yards. P freaking U...Meanwhile, Shakir had 9 targets for 7 receptions for 44 yards, 1 TD. 

 

This in my view is Stephon Diggs simply not playing like a #1 WR making nearly 24 million per. 

 

My take is that Diggs wanted out of Buffalo and was going to be a distraction again this offseason. Why he wanted out is sort of perplexing to me because he remained the focal point of the Buffalo passing offense. Perhaps Diggs wanted to play with his brother in Dallas and now after the 2024 season, he will be a FA. 

 

For whatever reason Diggs was simply not the same player in the playoffs that he was during the regular season. Yes, he put up a lot of yards and made the Pro Bowl and even "all-pro". Still, the guy disappeared in the playoffs for Buffalo. 

 

Just as an example, HoF WR Andre Reed against Miami in the 1990 playoffs, 7 receptions for 122 yards, 2 TDs. In his four seasons with Buffalo, in four playoff games... how many TDs has Diggs had? 

 

[Beck Water]

32 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Firstly, we all have seen how an unhappy Diggs acts toward his team. We saw it in Minnesota and we saw it here. Same guy. Same playbook. So no team was going to trade for him unless their expectation was that he wanted to be there and would be happy there. So Diggs had to sign off on his acceptable teams. The Texans were either that singular team or one on a short list of teams. So he chose the Texans, potentially along with others.

 

At that point it would’ve been up to the team(s) to negotiate with Beane. I highly doubt that it was a coincidence that the Texans traded with Minnesota and acquired the pick they traded for Diggs just prior. That was the compensation that got the deal done. It’s probable that it’s what the Texans had to do to match or beat another offer. 

 

It's a fair point, along with the point someone else made that Diggs "leverage", after his salary was fully guaranteed, was simply telling any team he didn't want to be traded to that he wouldn't report until contractually forced.  No one wants that, especially, as you point out, that an unhappy Diggs can be a passive aggressive PITA.

 

[MasterStrategist]

24 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Samuel and Davis are very different players.  Davis was trying to be that Boundary Guy and he really didn't get it done when asked to be that clever route runner over the middle.  Samuel had his best year, with Joe Brady, playing something like 70+% of his snaps from the slot.  I think a more realistic hope is that he'll be the Beasley replacement Crowder and McKenzie were supposed to be.

 

I really like how Shakir came on last year and how Kincaid looked as a rookie - so smooth!  But I think it's a long stretch to think Kincaid can replace Diggs.

 

But with all respect, here's the thing: I think this "Jenga Game" with WR where the Bills (not just you) look at WR and argue something like "Davis sure looked All World in the playoffs against the Colts in 2020 and against KC in 2021.  And McKenzie has been stuck behind Beasley on the depth chart, but he seized his opportunity and showed what he could do against NWE and earlier against the Dolphins.   So we don't need to "splash" in FA or in the draft this year.

We project from what guys can do in an occasional game or while the D is focused on someone else.  The Bills seem to do this, too.

 

It doesn't necessarily work that way, though.

 

 

agree.  We need 2 quality boundary WRs, as I see it.  Samuel will be moved around, but he does best in the slot.  Shakir is 1b in the slot.  

 

I see Beane doing 1 of 3 things:

1. Double dip early at WR: value will be there in Rd1 and R2

2. Draft an early WR, then sign a MVS/Michael Thomas stop-gap post June 1st when we get the Tre cap money

3. Draft an early WR, and make a trade post June 1st (depending on who is shopping who, ie: Aiyuk, maybe)

 

I like Option 1, but not sure Beane will put that many young WRs in our room.  This makes the draft all that more interesting to me this year.  We have a chance to setup our WR core for the next 4-5 seasons, if Beane chooses to do so.

[papazoid]

there are 6-7 WR's with a first round grade in this draft

 

stay where you are at #28 (maybe use a 4th to move up a couple) and take a WR.

 

make a big move up in 2nd round (with a future 2nd or 3rd) and grab another WR.

 

i would hate to trade up in this years draft to Top 10......the price is just more than i want to pay.

[finn]

43 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

“I’m going to tell them I’m not showing up if you send me to the panthers” is not pretty but would accomplish what he wants 

Came in as a prima donna, leaving as a prima donna. The only guy on this team who has been a distraction. All about him. Good riddance, Stefon. 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

agree.  We need 2 quality boundary WRs, as I see it.  Samuel will be moved around, but he does best in the slot.  Shakir is 1b in the slot.  

 

I see Beane doing 1 of 3 things:

1. Double dip early at WR: value will be there in Rd1 and R2

2. Draft an early WR, then sign a MVS/Michael Thomas stop-gap post June 1st when we get the Tre cap money

3. Draft an early WR, and make a trade post June 1st (depending on who is shopping who, ie: Aiyuk, maybe)

 

I like Option 1, but not sure Beane will put that many young WRs in our room.  This makes the draft all that more interesting to me this year.  We have a chance to setup our WR core for the next 4-5 seasons, if Beane chooses to do so.

 

I hope Beane learned something the year he "double dipped" at DE after announcing post 2020 season that "we couldn't affect the QB".  So he took Greg Rousseau, who was a high-ceiling, low floor guy due to limited playing experience in college, and Boogie Basham, who was supposed to be a solid floor but higher ceiling guy - but who played at a lower level of competition at Wake Forest.   In hindsight, I think Beane was reaching, 

 

In the end, we may get more value (and certainly more ROI) out of 2022 UDFA Kingsley Jonathan, and we missed on some players who could have helped us.  

I don't think Beane has a problem putting more young WR in the room.  Khalil is a 3rd year guy now; he's got vet Curtis Samuel and vet Mack Hollins who both know how to get through a season.

But I hope he's more likely to do what he did with Elam and Benford - draft a guy they like early, and double-dip by taking a shot at potential late in the draft.

[CincyBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Diggs is great no doubt but just looking at this Samuel should be able to put up Davis numbers pretty easily. I think kincaid could end up being close to Diggs numbers last year (maybe 90 catches for 1000). Shakir should be able to replicate Kincaid numbers from last year so you need a rookie to replace shakir’s 39 catches and 600 yards. Not really all that crazy.

 

 

Don't forget that Cook is likely to play a larger role in the passing game.

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

35 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

...

 

But with all respect, here's the thing: I think this "Jenga Game" with WR where the Bills (not just you) look at WR and argue something like "Davis sure looked All World in the playoffs against the Colts in 2020 and against KC in 2021.  And McKenzie has been stuck behind Beasley on the depth chart, but he seized his opportunity and showed what he could do against NWE and earlier against the Dolphins.   So we don't need to "splash" in FA or in the draft this year.

...

 

 

 

Fair or unfair, I'll remember Davis as a guy who contributed 2 monster playoff games and, besides that, a lot of nothing.  

 

Davis and Diggs combined for 1900 yards last year.  That's a lot of production to replace.  Then again, someone is always going to get yards when Josh throws.  Davis's and Diggs's 240 targets will now go to other receivers.  We'll see if the other guys can get as many yards on those targets.  Right now, I worry the answer just might be no.  Davis is not a huge loss but, as a player, Diggs is.  I think we need at least one more quality wideout.

 

But I think the biggest wildcard is Joe Brady.  What kind of passing game can he scheme up?  

 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, eme123 said:

The only number that matters is the score at the end. There are 53 guys that contribute to that. Since you asked here is the oh so important 2023 receiving stats. 
Diggs  107rec  1183yds  8td

Davis    45rec   746yds  7td

Kincaid  73rec   673yds  2td

Shakir    39rec   611yds   2td

Cook      44rec   445yds  4td

 

Pick and choose games all you want. The fact is the Bills are weaker on the fire power end of things without Diggs. 

Pointing out the Bills are weaker without Diggs is one thing.  Saying the only thing that matters is TD's is a way overly simplistic mindset and minimizes all of the things that have to happen in order for guys to have the opportunity for the TD which are critical.