Diggs traded to Texans for picks

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

31 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Good point? You'd have the player on the roster.

That's like saying you can save $300 you planned on spending on groceries by lighting $250 on fire and then just not eating. The math only works if you ignore what the values represent.

A guy who's clearly done as a 1

[WotAGuy]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What players have we traded away that have become superstars?

 

Wyatt Teller? 

Patrick Mahomes?

 

(ducks and runs)

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's not the way it works. You have to pay t either way. One way you get something for it, the other way you get nothing. People are acting like he's washed up like Von Miller when he posted top 7-13 stats in every receiving category last year. The non-logic people are using to justify this deal is hilarious.

 

Um, no.  The Bills would have paid $27M for Diggs on the roster, and then if they cut him next off season, an additional $23M.  That's a total of $50M

This way, the Bills pay $31M.  

 

So they could have kept Diggs, at the cost of an additional $19M against the cap over the next 2 years.

 

The more realistic question is, "is Diggs ROI still worth an extra $19M total over 2 years AND having an extra $23M on the cap next year if we part ways?"

Clearly the Bills answer to that question was "Nope!"

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um, no.  The Bills would have paid $27M for Diggs on the roster, and then if they cut him next off season, an additional $23M.  That's a total of $50M

This way, the Bills pay $31M.  

 

So they could have kept Diggs, at the cost of an additional $19M against the cap over the next 2 years.

 

The more realistic question is, "is Diggs ROI still worth an extra $19M total over 2 years AND having an extra $23M on the cap next year if we part ways?"

Clearly the Bills answer to that question was "Nope!"

That's the major difference in being a fan and being a member of any pro sports teams front office. Most fans think on a year to year basis. GMs operate most of the time on a longer term vision. 

 

Of course, we as fans aren't privy to what the long term plan is so we have to react in real time to what's happening and speculate the rest. 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Reed didn't play in 4 Super Bowls, he wouldn't have one either. He never even had back to back 1000 yard seasons, only had 4 ever and only hit 10 TDs once in his career. if he played today, he might not be a top 30 player. Meanwhile Diggs has 6 consecutive 1k seasons, 2 seasons of 10+ TDs in 7 fewer seasons.

Reed is near the top of the most overrated players of all time.

I was in grade school and wasn’t really into football during Reed’s SB years so I can’t comment on if he’s overrated or not. What I do know is that you can’t compare stats from the 90s to the game today. This decade’s passing league is a totally different animal for receiver and QB numbers. 

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I look at the KC playoff game and keep thinking if we had one bigger receiver I’d take the layups all day long and let him beat on those corners and let the corners make the tackle.  Deep stuff comes form that - wear them down, get them creeping, and hit the shot (unless it’s to Diggs, who dropped the shot it took them the whole game to set up).  
 

But your points about having ann intermediate or deep game are valid.  We have probably the only quarterback in the league who can hit Diggs in Detroit on Thanksgiving.  And that Shakir route that missed against KC in the playoffs is a throw that most wouldn’t even attempt.  So there’s a logic in leaning into that too.  I just want to have the ability to play and punish through the short game if we’re going to see the steady diet of two high again next year. 

 

Yeah, that game left us with much to think about.  KC's EZ fumble, Wide Right, etc.  That's an interesting game to look at.  It's somewhat of a conundrum.  

 

We ran 78 plays to their 47.  We averaged 4.7 YPP which is low, as in bottom-dwellingly low.  They averaged 7.7.  Time of Possession 37 to 23 us.  

 

It's befuddling to be sure.  But what was the case is that there was no shortage of short-yardage plays in that game, McD's "complimentary football" on display.  Our longest completed pass on that day was 15 yards to Diggs.  Murray also caught one for 15 but that was a short pass that he ran the rest for.  

 

That's Brady football as directed by McD's "complimentary football" approach.  They obviously deliberately did that.  It was similar the week prior vs. Pittsburgh.  In both games our above-average offense managed only to match the average YPP allowed on the season by both defenses.  One would think that a top-ranked offense would do better than what the opponent had allowed on average.  Miami averaged the same, the Ravens 6.3 YPP.  

 

Either way, get used to that approach, because whether fans realize it or not, that's what McD wants.  That's what he means when he says "complimentary football."  We know that he's not wise in the ways of offense, so the issue that many of us have with that is that, again, it's not even remotely using Allen to maximize his contributions other than his rushing.  Allen posted 189 and 186 yards passing in those two games.  I'm not sure what anyone expects in terms of WR production when there's an average of 34 attempts in both games, and an average of 23 total completions.  That's not a lot of balls for receivers to gain the kind of yardage from that everyone's critical of us not getting.  

 

Under Brady, in 6 of 9 games Allen hasn't exceeded 240 yards passing.  He's averaged 33 attempts/game, for a bottom-dwelling 60.7% under Brady, his worst for any significant stretch of games since 2019.  That was with receivers he's known and played with for several seasons.  

 

He's going to get worn out playing like that.  Averaging 9 carries/game under Brady he'd average about 150 carries on the season.  If he doesn't do that, who's going to run the ball on 3rd-downs?  He took more 3rd-down carries than the rest of the team combined with 43.  Those are typically the toughest yards to get.  Cook had 4, all season.  Murray had the second most with 20, but averaged a mere 2.0 on those.  Is he still with us?  

 

Anyway, that's how we played under Brady.  IMO it's not sustainable over an entire season to have your QB run that much, and now, particularly since our receivers won't exactly be inducing fear in the minds of the DCs and defenses that we face.  It's easy to say that we'll adjust by doing [such and such] but it's more difficult in practice.  McD isn't for being a great Adjustments coach, and will he even try to adjust from something that he's forcing to begin with is the question.  

 

We'll see if the Draft changes anything, but as of now the only significant picks that we have that even realistically sniff at a hint of making a rookie impact are 28th and 60th.  The rest are day-2 fodder picks.  On top of that, Beane's track record with rookie production isn't great.  Kincaid did better but still didn't match the hype.  Torrence was good too, but we need WRs now.  

 

 

[Rigotz]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What you are saying is true. A 2nd rounder is a 2nd rounder and in reality there is value. We got a solid return in any event.

 

However, when trading for future picks there is the addition to the move that the pick in and of itself is largely unknown. There is a big difference between pick 33 and pick 65. And while we can estimate right now that Minnesota "sould" end up drafting top 10 or maybe even top 5...anything can happen. I'm sure that teams dealing with Houston in last year's draft felt whatever picks they were getting for this year would be pretty high. Didn't end up that way.

 

Another good recent example is us trading for Rasul last year. At the time the trade was made it looked like the return pick from GB would be high up in the round. They got hot late, made the playoffs and that pick sank. 

 

That's where the devaluation comes in. 

 

The part that baffles me is how it devalues all the way to a 3rd.

 

If the Vikings win the Super Bowl, it's still a 2nd round pick.

 

It feels like people are complaining just because it's more dramatic and fun to say "we basically got a 3rd."

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Rigotz said:

 

The part that baffles me is how it devalues all the way to a 3rd.

 

If the Vikings win the Super Bowl, it's still a 2nd round pick.

 

It feels like people are complaining just because it's more dramatic and fun to say "we basically got a 3rd."

It's more the uncertainty of where the pick may fall. It could be pick 33. It could be pick 64. While still a 2nd...there's a big difference in the 2 and the value isn't quite the same. Then add in the lack of instant gratification of having that 2nd rounder this year....and I get (but don't necessarily agree with) the complaints.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

31 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this Stefon's most memorable moment as a Bill?

 

It's the one I'll remember.

 

 

 

[Augie]

39 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this Stefon's most memorable moment as a Bill?

 

It's the one I'll remember.

 

 

 

It’s a lot funnier when he’s not doing it to his own QB on the sidelines!   😂 

[Warriorspikes51]

43 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this Stefon's most memorable moment as a Bill?

 

It's the one I'll remember.

 

 

 

 

Too bad he decided to do it to his own team as well 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Reed didn't play in 4 Super Bowls, he wouldn't have one either. He never even had back to back 1000 yard seasons, only had 4 ever and only hit 10 TDs once in his career. if he played today, he might not be a top 30 player. Meanwhile Diggs has 6 consecutive 1k seasons, 2 seasons of 10+ TDs in 7 fewer seasons.

Reed is near the top of the most overrated players of all time.

 

Do you really not understand the difference in eras?

 

When Reed retired, he was 3rd all time in receptions.

 

In 1990, there were only 3 WR's with 80 or more receptions.  Yes that's right....3.

Last year in 2023, there were 23.  

Do you see the difference?

 

In Jim Kelly's first 6 seasons, he had 2,252 passing attempts.

In Josh Allen's first 6 seasons, he has 3,145 passing attempts.  Nearly a thousand more passing attempts.

[Blackbeard]

Man, i'm gonna miss Digg's spunk and attitude against other teams

 

That clip against the Pats where he told the fans to STFU is classic.  He had attitude and fire.  

 

I'll miss it.  Sad day but this had to happen.

 

[juno999]

As a Bills fan, I appreciate what Diggs brought to the Bills offense.  It was an exciting time.  After initial shock hearing of the trade, it was time for the Bills to move on.  To trade away a player while incurring a $31 M cap hit is pretty telling.

Edited April 4 by juno999

[stevestojan]

So right now, Kinkaid is WR1, huh? 

[mjd1001]

17 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

NateGeary sucks!! He is literally going onto social media and blaming whatever the alleged "incident" Josh had before the Bengals game, and blaming that situation for the downfall of the friendship and Diggs wanting to leave. 

 

I don't know what went down, if anything went down(rumors of course are Josh cheated and his ex destroyed their house etc) but is that really an excuse for Diggs to be pissed off for a year+ over this, and a game(Bengals game) that I don't think The Bills were winning, and I don't blame Josh for the loss.

 

Literally dragging Josh and bringing horrible attention to him to prop Diggs up. It's gross.

I'm going to make a general statement here....

 

Most of the younger guys on WGR (and I like them most of the time better than Schopp and Bulldog) tend to like and support players that are active on social media, ones that can be or have the potential to be more controversial...stuff like that.  Yes, they are into analytics and a lot of times have think rationally, but I swear sometimes they will give the benefit of the doubt, or slightly over-rate a player if they are simply a 'name' known around the league, or are someone who is a bit of a diva compared to someone else who just goes to work, plays football and goes home.

 

To each their own, but I prefer the latter. Sure, I'm on the message boards and check Twitter everyday, but I do so for some conversation and news, the posting for the sake of posting by athletes, the 'promoting their brand', just isn't for me. I get it some people like that, but I'd just as much rather not have that on the team I root for, all else being equal.

[BullBuchanan]

27 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I was in grade school and wasn’t really into football during Reed’s SB years so I can’t comment on if he’s overrated or not. What I do know is that you can’t compare stats from the 90s to the game today. This decade’s passing league is a totally different animal for receiver and QB numbers. 

You could have just looked up the stats of his contemporaries. He was never elite even in his day. What got him to Canton was 4 SBs and an extremely long career (16 seasons) with high aggregate stats.

During his career his was never higher than 5th in receiving and hit that mark only twice (89 & 94). He was over 1300 yards both of those seasons , but his next two highest are just over 1100 and just over 1k. He was never top 5 in TDs in a season.

Andre Rison was a far better play who isnt in the HoF. So is Sterling Sharpe. Henry Ellard was arguably even better.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

So right now, Kinkaid is WR1, huh? 

 

Good thing we don’t have any games today!  

 

It’s not like Beane to go into a draft with such a glaring need. When we go DT or EDGE at #28 this place will be WILD!  😂 

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Good thing we don’t have any games today!  

 

It’s not like Beane to go into a draft with such a glaring need. When we go DT or EDGE at #28 this place will be WILD!  😂 

Or when we trade up and take a Safety.  

[Beck Water]

49 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

That's the major difference in being a fan and being a member of any pro sports teams front office. Most fans think on a year to year basis. GMs operate most of the time on a longer term vision. 

 

Of course, we as fans aren't privy to what the long term plan is so we have to react in real time to what's happening and speculate the rest. 

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall and know whether that was the plan all along, dating from the post-season player performance review, or if something else has happened.  

One example of this kind of long term thinking would be when the Bills moved on from Marcell Dareus.  There the Bills were, 6 games into the 2017 season. 

It was obvious that McDermott and Beane were not long-term fans, but he was playing.  He'd missed a game when injured, came back, was back up to 57% of the snaps and seemed (to me) to make a difference in gap integrity on run defense.  They'd inherited him on a 6 year, $60 million contract extension signed in 2015, so they were on Year 3 of it.

 

All of a sudden, he was off to Jax for a conditional 6th that turned into a 5th round pick while the Bills ate a chunk of dead cap.  He played all season for Jax AND arguably helped them beat us in the playoffs (yeah, he had 4 tackles, but that wasn't his job).  Beane and McDermott even alluded after the season that McDermott had not necessarily agreed with the decision to trade Dareus when we did - it didn't make our defense better - but "understood the reasoning" after they talked.