Diggs traded to Texans for picks

[BuffaloRebound]

7 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

We all understand that Diggs' 2024 cap hit is only $3M more now than it would have been with him here, right? I fear when fans read "dead cap hit" they imagine some additional cap penalty for moving him. It's basically the same as him being here, but now the Bills will save mucho cap space in 2025 and beyond. 

 

I'm excited to see Joe Brady calling plays, and Josh Allen distributing the football, COMPLETELY FREE of selfish egos in the huddle and on the sideline. The Diggs+Allen political marriage had obviously fractured over the years. Time to let Josh lead the ticket in this election cycle. I like Kincaid as a potential WR1a, with Samuel as WR1b, and some weekly blend of a 1st rd rookie WR, Shakir, and Cook as WR3s, depending on the matchups and tendencies. 

 

KC has won b2b championships with Kelce as WR1 and a mix of WRs and RBs filling roles behind him. I like the Bills going for something similar but with a more consistent and dangerous and multiple run game to boot. Gotta have multiple solutions to every problem NFL defensive coordinators throw out you in a given season. 

Pretty sure if we traded Diggs after June 1st we could’ve split that $31m dead cap between 2024 and 2025.  

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Dude, this line of argument is so tired. Give it a rest, seriously.

 

Don't tell me, I'm not the one arguing it by implication.  But that definitely appears to be the tack taken by so many implicitly.  

 

I'm a bigger fan than that.  

 

What needs to be given a rest is this sentiment that we haven't underachieved come playoff time or that KC is invincible.  If the latter is the case, who cares who's coaching.  

 

 

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I think a more moderate move up to Brian Thomas is realistic.

 

Id also be fine just grabbing AD Mitchell at ~28 and move around the 2nd and grab Franklin. 

 

this is where I am at.  modest move for Thomas, or Mitchell and some combo of Franklin, Legette, or Polk. 

[MasterStrategist]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Could we see any other moves for picks?

 

Rasul Douglas? Dawson Knox? 
 

not saying I’d be in favor or against

 

maybe each of those players could get a 4th though?

 

Dare I say it… Milano? I wouldn’t want to move him, curious what value teams would put on him

No to all 3.  I know you like these hypothetical trades/acquisitions, but doesn't make sense with any of them.

 

Milano is the heart and soul of the defense, he's the most vital IMO to its success.

 

Douglas is basically on a cheap cap hit this season, and he's likely gone in FA next year.  Makes no sense to trade and eat a cap hit now, unless we're truly tanking in 2024.

 

Knox, we'd be accelerating a very high dead cap hit (not like Diggs where the difference is 3-4m, much much higher with Dawson). 

 

So no to all 3

[Gunsgoodtime]

9 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Could we see any other moves for picks?

 

Rasul Douglas? Dawson Knox? 
 

not saying I’d be in favor or against

 

maybe each of those players could get a 4th though?

 

Dare I say it… Milano? I wouldn’t want to move him, curious what value teams would put on him

If we could trade Knox and his contract I would do it in a heart beat for draft picks

[Warriorspikes51]

4 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I got to give it to ya, you do love a trade

well, Douglas has 1 year left and hasn’t been extended yet. I like him a lot. Impact player. Beane may view him as only here for a year though.

 

Knox, unless he used more could be a possible trade next off-season.

 

Milano is great. No doubt. But, 30 and multiple injuries. If Beane believes in Dorian Williams…who knows

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

this is where I am at.  modest move for Thomas, or Mitchell and some combo of Franklin, Legette, or Polk. 

Beane is not going to do anything modest...this is a precursor to a bigger move

 

2 seconds next year for us will offset the loss of next years #1

 

To get a Rookie WR under a cost controlled 5 years over Josh's Prime = a big move and not a half-arsed modest one

[Behindenemylines]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Pretty sure if we traded Diggs after June 1st we could’ve split that $31m dead cap between 2024 and 2025.  

The deal wouldt be available most likely then

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Beane is not going to do anything modest...this is a precursor to a bigger move

 

2 seconds next year for us will offset the loss of next years #1

 

To get a Rookie WR under a cost controlled 5 years over Josh's Prime = a big move and not a half-arsed modest one

 

I won't mind a big move, bit draft wise I’m not sold that anyone other than Harrison is worth more of a move up than it takes for Thomas. I may need to watch some more Malki Nabers and Rome Odenzu highlights.  

Edited April 4 by RyanC883

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Could we see any other moves for picks?

 

Rasul Douglas? Dawson Knox? 
 

not saying I’d be in favor or against

 

maybe each of those players could get a 4th though?

 

Dare I say it… Milano? I wouldn’t want to move him, curious what value teams would put on him

 Dawson Knox has negative trade value

[Warriorspikes51]

5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Beane is not going to do anything modest...this is a precursor to a bigger move

 

2 seconds next year for us will offset the loss of next years #1

 

To get a Rookie WR under a cost controlled 5 years over Josh's Prime = a big move and not a half-arsed modest one

I’ll be surprised if he stays at 28. I’d be fine with it, but I expect a move up.   If we give our 28, 2025 1st & 2nd….maybe we can snag Nabers or Odunze

 

Then trade up again from pick 60 for Legette

 

that is big. 
 

 

If not a huge move up, then I want Xavier Worthy & Xavier Legette

Edited April 4 by Warriorspikes51

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, eme123 said:

This is what ive been saying. If im a possible trade partner with the bills….my price just went up. The bills no longer “want” a wide receiver. They “need” a wide reciever. 

It was apparent we “needed” a WR last season.  This move was anticipated if not expected by most other teams.  Doesn’t change our position other than we have a future pick which teams want 

[Richard Noggin]

50 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

As to the bolded, I'm pretty sure it's NOT true that Diggs' decline in production was the result of double-teams. Defenses definitely shaded his way with a safety at times, but what I recall neutralizing him the most was the physical, press-man attention he got from #1 corners.

 

Whereas he used to often win against aggressive, press-man coverage, he has had more difficulty doing so in the past two years (and the past two post-seasons against KC in particular). Then last year we also saw some misses when Diggs DID defeat his coverage. Some of those misfires were on Allen at times, no doubt, but down the stretch and in the playoffs we were watching a diminished Diggs drop balls and lose contested catch situations. Those misfires were season-altering.

 

Can anyone verify that defenses back in 2020-2022 used to actually put their #1 CBs on Davis and/or Brown/Sanders and then double Diggs with their #2 CB and a safety? I might remember that being a thing for a minute. 

 

Spagnuolo has been successful, especially in the playoffs, challenging his young corners to matchup physically and aggressively with our guys. Obviously Gabe Davis won that matchup a handful of times that one game (especially against his former UCF teammate, Mike Hughes). But otherwise, how many SBs has Spags' scheme pulled off? 

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 Dawson Knox has negative trade value

I bet Joe Schoen would trade a 4th for him, or he could be a piece in a move up to #6

[Beck Water]

I didn't see this linked anywhere.  Greg Cosell on One Bills Live discussing the Diggs trade.  For those hiding under a rock and unfamiliar with Cosell, he has a long time history with NFL Films and is very well regarded as a film analyst.  He is not a clickbait seeker or a server of "hot takes"; others may differ but everything he says is based on what he sees on film, and what he says is usually worth listening to.  Nor is he a paid employee of the Bills like Brown and Tasker and Capaccio, what he says is what he sees - it may be tactful, he isn't coming on a Bills show and saying rude things, but he lets his opinion fly.

 

Brown: (discuss Bills cap situation, taking on extra cap)  What does it say to you?
 

Cosell: Well, Number 1, it tells you they were anxious to make the trade and get rid of Stefon Diggs.  I'm not in the building, I can't speak to the why.  Number 2, it tells you that there was not a big market FOR him, because this trade didn't just come about in 5 minutes.  I'm sure there have been numerous conversations over probably a meaningful amount of time and there was not a big market. 

Now, I hope fans are interested in tape reality vs. emotion, because the tape reality tells you that Stefon Diggs is not a #1 WR in the league.  He might have been on the Bills, but he's not a #1 receiver in the way we think about #1 receivers, the guys who really are.  So you're talking about a 30 year old declining player, who is not a #1.  That's essentially what the tape tells you that Stefon Diggs is.  
 

Now I'm sure there's a lot of raw emotion right now for Buffalo fans 'cuz it just happened, but that's the reality of the tape.

 

Brown: Let's dig into that a little bit more, Greg.  What do you see on tape, that shows you a, quote 'declining player' at least from being an alpha male #1 on the roster?

 

Cosell: I don't think he's a fully dimensional receiver at this point in his career.  He's not a true vertical dimension, now, that doesn't mean you can never catch a vertical ball, I want people to understand that.  There's a lot of guys in the league that you wouldn't call vertical receivers, who do catch "go" balls or posts.  But he's not a fully dimensional receiver, for want of a better term, he's much more of a possession-type receiver at this point in his career.  Now he's still very very good at that, that's his game, and I think that's ultimately what he is. 

You have to remember, he's not going to a team where he's going to be the #1 receiver.  He helps that team a lot, because they have Nico Collins who is a true boundary X #1 receiver, and on the Bills, Stefon Diggs, just by dint of elimination, was their #1.   But I think they're looking to get a true #1, now we'll see what happens in the draft.  And we'll see if they have something in mind with a trade...or whatever they feel, we won't know the answer certainly in the next 24 or 48 hours.  

 

But I think they just felt, he's 30 years old, he's declining, it's time to move on.  Let's move on from Diggs.

 

Tasker: One of the things we discussed as well, with a guy like Diggs, he's certainly not going to fall off a cliff.  His production** and his targets were there, even when he wasn't being as productive in the second half of last year as he was in the first half, But, this deal, like you said, there's a couple things about it.  One, it smacks of letting Diggs move on a year earlier rather than a year late.  And the financial stuff notwithstanding, the money's already been paid to Diggs that's on the cap, it's not like they're going to throw any more money to him.  And it would be hard for him to live up to the contract that he had already signed.

 

Cosell: He's probably, at this point in his career - I think he's going to be 31 during the season - I don't think he's going to get another big money deal at this point in his career.  Look, we know that Houston is a team that is going to have a good passing game, he's probably not going to get the same volume of targets that he got with the Bills, although that declined clearly as the season progressed [Beck sez: from 11 per game to 8 per game], so he's not going to put up the same kinds of numbers, and I don't think that the league would see him, clearly they don't, you saw what the trade was, the league clearly doesn't see him that way - he's not going to get another big-number deal.

 

Brown: So Greg, Let's look at the draft.....(5:25 if anyone wants to transcribe the rest.....

 

------------

**it's not clear to me what Tasker means by "his production and his targets were there, even when he wasn't being as productive...." if anyone can translate, please do.

This is not a novel opinion about Diggs Cosell has expressed.  Last year (I think) and earlier this season, he expressed the view that the Bills didn't have any elite talent at wide receiver, they had a single good WR.

The surprise to me was how straight out Cosell gave his interpretation of the trade, that the compensation represented a determination "let's get rid of Stefon Diggs."
 

So the elephant in the room here, that Cosell in his typical pattern will put out there but not explicitly say, is: since Stefon isn't a true #1 in his view but was the BILLS #1 by process of elimination (and since he was the Bills "single good WR" in earlier interviews), where exactly does that leave the Bills for receiving talent?

 

[ALLinALLEN]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I bet Joe Schoen would trade a 4th for him, or he could be a piece in a move up to #6

The giants have $15mil a year tied up into Waller. They’re not giving anything for another overpaid TE with production like Knox 

[major]

Brandon Beane has turned into Billy Beane of the Oakland A’s. This must be our version of moneyball ⚾️

[Beck Water]

38 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Lololol top 7…C’mon. He hasn’t been near the top 15 for a year plus, a point you’d likely agree with if Diggs was still a Bill right now, considering that you’ve happily gone full contrarian mode on all topics.
 

It’s like as soon as Airseven either got banned or jumped off a cliff, Bull over here saw an opening to finally become the heel that he always dreamed of becoming. 
 

Top 7 lololol

 

Factually, Diggs was #7 in receptions and #6 in targets this past season.  #10 in TD and 1D.  But in terms of Y/G, falls to #17 and Y/R falls to #67.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I didn't see this linked anywhere.  Greg Cosell on One Bills Live discussing the Diggs trade.  For those hiding under a rock and unfamiliar with Cosell, he has a long time history with NFL Films and is very well regarded as a film analyst.  He is not a clickbait seeker or a server of "hot takes"; others may differ but everything he says is based on what he sees on film, and what he says is usually worth listening to.  Nor is he a paid employee of the Bills like Brown and Tasker and Capaccio, what he says is what he sees - it may be tactful, he isn't coming on a Bills show and saying rude things, but he lets his opinion fly.

 

Brown: (discuss Bills cap situation, taking on extra cap)  What does it say to you?
 

Cosell: Well, Number 1, it tells you they were anxious to make the trade and get rid of Stefon Diggs.  I'm not in the building, I can't speak to the why.  Number 2, it tells you that there was not a big market FOR him, because this trade didn't just come about in 5 minutes.  I'm sure there have been numerous conversations over probably a meaningful amount of time and there was not a big market. 

Now, I hope fans are interested in tape reality vs. emotion, because the tape reality tells you that Stefon Diggs is not a #1 WR in the league.  He might have been on the Bills, but he's not a #1 receiver in the way we think about #1 receivers, the guys who really are.  So you're talking about a 30 year old declining player, who is not a #1.  That's essentially what the tape tells you that Stefon Diggs is.  
 

Now I'm sure there's a lot of raw emotion right now for Buffalo fans 'cuz it just happened, but that's the reality of the tape.

 

Brown: Let's dig into that a little bit more, Greg.  What do you see on tape, that shows you a, quote 'declining player' at least from being an alpha male #1 on the roster?

 

Cosell: I don't think he's a fully dimensional receiver at this point in his career.  He's not a true vertical dimension, now, that doesn't mean you can never catch a vertical ball, I want people to understand that.  There's a lot of guys in the league that you wouldn't call vertical receivers, who do catch "go" balls or posts.  But he's not a fully dimensional receiver, for want of a better term, he's much more of a possession-type receiver at this point in his career.  Now he's still very very good at that, that's his game, and I think that's ultimately what he is. 

You have to remember, he's not going to a team where he's going to be the #1 receiver.  He helps that team a lot, because they have Nico Collins who is a true boundary X #1 receiver, and on the Bills, Stefon Diggs, just by dint of elimination, was their #1.   But I think they're looking to get a true #1, now we'll see what happens in the draft.  And we'll see if they have something in mind with a trade...or whatever they feel, we won't know the answer certainly in the next 24 or 48 hours.  

 

But I think they just felt, he's 30 years old, he's declining, it's time to move on.  Let's move on from Diggs.

 

Tasker: One of the things we discussed as well, with a guy like Diggs, he's certainly not going to fall off a cliff.  His production** and his targets were there, even when he wasn't being as productive in the second half of last year as he was in the first half, But, this deal, like you said, there's a couple things about it.  One, it smacks of letting Diggs move on a year earlier rather than a year late.  And the financial stuff notwithstanding, the money's already been paid to Diggs that's on the cap, it's not like they're going to throw any more money to him.  And it would be hard for him to live up to the contract that he had already signed.

 

Cosell: He's probably, at this point in his career - I think he's going to be 31 during the season - I don't think he's going to get another big money deal at this point in his career.  Look, we know that Houston is a team that is going to have a good passing game, he's probably not going to get the same volume of targets that he got with the Bills, although that declined clearly as the season progressed [Beck sez: from 11 per game to 8 per game], so he's not going to put up the same kinds of numbers, and I don't think that the league would see him, clearly they don't, you saw what the trade was, the league clearly doesn't see him that way - he's not going to get another big-number deal.

 

Brown: So Greg, Let's look at the draft.....(5:25 if anyone wants to transcribe the rest.....

 

------------

**it's not clear to me what Tasker means by "his production and his targets were there, even when he wasn't being as productive...." if anyone can translate, please do.

This is not a novel opinion about Diggs Cosell has expressed.  Last year (I think) and earlier this season, he expressed the view that the Bills didn't have any elite talent at wide receiver, they had a single good WR.

The surprise to me was how straight out Cosell gave his interpretation of the trade, that the compensation represented a determination "let's get rid of Stefon Diggs."
 

So the elephant in the room here, that Cosell in his typical pattern will put out there but not explicitly say, is: since Stefon isn't a true #1 in his view but was the BILLS #1 by process of elimination (and since he was the Bills "single good WR" in earlier interviews), where exactly does that leave the Bills for receiving talent?

 

People have been saying for several years now how we lack at wr talent

 

and when I said it I included diggs, he's very good but does not have the elite tier tools cosell is talking about

[T master]

1 of the things i don't get with these trades is how do the Bills get left holding the bag for so much cash ? If you take the player you need to take his contract too !! 

 

Is the reason why the Bills get stuck with that much of a cap hit $31 million next year because they paid him bonuses in order to make more cap space and pushed it down the road ?  I don't get it .