NFL Draft change/proposal

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Figster said:

The McBeane regime drafted Josh...

 

 

 

yeah...the draft.  You said it had zero to do with the draft...and now you are saying it was the draft.  

 

You are making no sense man, no offense.  Again, your proposal is just not a good one nor will it ever switch to that.  The NFL is actually one of the best sports leagues right now of where teams can make significant turnarounds in short windows because of how FA and the Draft work.  I mean just look at the Texans (and a bunch of other teams too) as an example.  

[Figster]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

yeah...the draft.  You said it had zero to do with the draft...and now you are saying it was the draft.  

 

You are making no sense man, no offense.  Again, your proposal is just not a good one nor will it ever switch to that.  The NFL is actually one of the best sports leagues right now of where teams can make significant turnarounds in short windows because of how FA and the Draft work.  I mean just look at the Texans (and a bunch of other teams too) as an example.  

I'm saying it was our GM and HC that changed everything not WHERE we picked in the draft. Same can be said for the Lions.

 

Comprende?

Edited April 1 by Figster

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

I'm saying it was our GM and HC that changed everything not WHERE we picked in the draft.

 

Comprende?

 

 

Hahahaha come on dude.  McD and Beane are NOT on the field actually playing.  So stop, without drafting Josh Allen early this team is nothing compared to what its has been.  

 

Where would the Texans be right now if they didn't get draft Stroud and someone like Dallas did instead because of your crazy reverse way of doing the draft order?  Probably still a 1-3 win team instead of a playoff team last year.  

 

Lol...sorry man, no disrespect, but not only is this idea just bad, your defense of it is making even less sense.  

 

 

[Figster]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Hahahaha come on dude.  McD and Beane are NOT on the field actually playing.  So stop, without drafting Josh Allen early this team is nothing compared to what its has been.  

 

Where would the Texans be right now if they didn't get draft Stroud and someone like Dallas did instead because of your crazy reverse way of doing the draft order?  Probably still a 1-3 win team instead of a playoff team last year.  

 

Lol...sorry man, no disrespect, but not only is this idea just bad, your defense of it is making even less sense.  

 

 

Making yourself look a little out of touch with the thread discussion.

 

No worries, its all good...

 

 Do you know what the Texans and Bills had in common for the quick turn around? (Aside from great play at the QB position.)

 

New blood/ new GM in 2021, new HC last season

Edited April 1 by Figster

[Alphadawg7]

19 minutes ago, Figster said:

Making yourself look a little out of touch with the thread discussion.

 

No worries, its all good...

Yeah all good for sure 
 

But you’re not addressing any of my questions either so none of what you’re saying is making any sense to me.  
 

All good, just this seems like a quick way to eliminate the quick turn around opportunities for teams at the bottom  

[Figster]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah all good for sure 
 

But you’re not addressing any of my questions either so none of what you’re saying is making any sense to me.  
 

All good, just this seems like a quick way to eliminate the quick turn around opportunities for teams at the bottom  

Thanks man

 

The biggest problem I have with how the draft order is determined is we are sending the best players to poorly managed and coached teams. Its a recipe for failure IMO.

Edited April 1 by Figster

[Fan in San Diego]

How about giving the bottom 5 teams a $10,000,000 fine for sucking. That counts against the cap.

[gonzo1105]

I wish they’d go back to first 3 rounds and 4 the next day or at least do rounds 1&2 together but money drives it so it won’t happen 

[Figster]

30 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

How about giving the bottom 5 teams a $10,000,000 fine for sucking. That counts against the cap.

Interesting idea to combat tanking.

 

Also sends a clear message to the owners - Hey guys and gals, do something different because what you are doing isn't working. Fix it, or sell to someone who can.

Edited April 1 by Figster

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Figster said:

I'm saying it was our GM and HC that changed everything not WHERE we picked in the draft. Same can be said for the Lions.

 

Comprende?

Why did the Pats suddenly become a bottom feeder team with the same GM/HC?

 

Why did the Bucs win the Super Bowl with Tom Brady immediately?

 

Why did the Bills go from a team that needed help on the last game of the season to the make the playoffs as a wildcard to cruising to division titles every year?

 

it’s a mystery @Alphadawg7

[Figster]

51 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Why did the Pats suddenly become a bottom feeder team with the same GM/HC?

 

Why did the Bucs win the Super Bowl with Tom Brady immediately?

 

Why did the Bills go from a team that needed help on the last game of the season to the make the playoffs as a wildcard to cruising to division titles every year?

 

it’s a mystery @Alphadawg7

Well I can tell you it wasn't from picking our 1st round QB in our designated picking order based on the previous season. We have Bills GM Brandon Beane to thank, not our current draft designation procedure. Pats are in transition. Did their designated draft pick ( Mac Jones ) fix the problem? No, it did not, and Brady is the GOAT

 

Last season a cruise? Ummm, how about no, and why you might ask. Coaching change ( OC )

Edited April 1 by Figster

[billsfan89]

The draft has to exist in a manner where bad teams get their picks slotted up higher. Is it rewarding a bad season? In a sense yes but I look at it as providing a team that is down on its luck a better chance to improve. Yes it can "reward" mismanaged teams but mismanaged teams bungle top picks so it isn't like a top pick guarantees you anything. I don't think "tanking" is an issue in the NFL as it is the NBA where a singular player can change around a teams fortunes drastically so an organization could conceivably "tank" a season to get a generational prospect. 

 

In the NFL most teams go into a season trying to be competitive. Even teams with new coaches and GM's who are trying to rebuild still end up attempting to build a decent roster even if they eat a lot of dead cap, trade down for future selections or trade away some of their better players for draft picks. So I don't see there being any issue with the way the draft is currently set up. 

[FireChans]

45 minutes ago, Figster said:

Well I can tell you it wasn't from picking our 1st round QB in our designated picking order based on the previous season. We have Bills GM Brandon Beane to thank, not our current draft designation procedure. Pats are in transition. Did their designated draft pick ( Mac Jones ) fix the problem? No, it did not, and Brady is the GOAT

 

Last season a cruise? Ummm, how about no, and why you might ask. Coaching change ( OC )

We have our QB to thank. That we drafted top 7.

[Figster]

9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The draft has to exist in a manner where bad teams get their picks slotted up higher. Is it rewarding a bad season? In a sense yes but I look at it as providing a team that is down on its luck a better chance to improve. Yes it can "reward" mismanaged teams but mismanaged teams bungle top picks so it isn't like a top pick guarantees you anything. I don't think "tanking" is an issue in the NFL as it is the NBA where a singular player can change around a teams fortunes drastically so an organization could conceivably "tank" a season to get a generational prospect. 

 

In the NFL most teams go into a season trying to be competitive. Even teams with new coaches and GM's who are trying to rebuild still end up attempting to build a decent roster even if they eat a lot of dead cap, trade down for future selections or trade away some of their better players for draft picks. So I don't see there being any issue with the way the draft is currently set up. 

thanks for the good input

 

Does league parody If this is what we are trying to accomplish equate to good entertainment.

 

Its the collegiate star athlete that suffers the most with our current drafting procedure in my humble opinion.

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

thanks for the good input

 

Does league parody If this is what we are trying to accomplish equate to good entertainment.

 

It’s the collegiate star athlete that suffers the most with our current drafting procedure in my humble opinion.

I think collegiate stars aren’t suffering getting a lot of guaranteed money to play football. Yes ideally you would want top prospects to go to the place best suited to develop them right away but the league has to balance competitive balance with what’s good for the players entering the league.

 

Overall given what we have seen thus far there’s not really any better system other than the draft in terms of what’s good for the leagues competitive balance and what’s fair for the players.

[Chaos]

Part of football success is management, including player development.  Teams that draft early every year, tend to change their management. Bills fans remain confused by the epic failure of not truly changing their management during the drought era. Most teams (including the current era Bills) are not Russ Brandon level incompetent. No need to worry about "rewarding" poorly managed teams. 

Edited April 2 by Chaos

[SoTier]

These are the QBs drafted #1 overall since  2000 -

2001 - Michael Vick

2002 - David Carr

2003 - Carson Palmer

2004 - Eli Manning

2005 - Alex Smith

2007 - JaMarcus Russell

2009 - Matthew Stafford

2010 - Sam Bradford

2011 - Cam Newton

2012  - Andrew Luck

2015 - Jameis Winston

2016 - Jared Goff

2018 - Baker Mayfield

2019  - Kyler Murray

2020 - Joe Burrow

2021 - Trevor Lawrence

 

IMO, I see 1 outright bust -- JaMarcus Russell -- and maybe 1 QB who failed primarily because of the team he was drafted by -- David Carr.  Most of the QBs were at least fairly successful NFL QBs even though they generally played for poor teams at the beginning of their careers.

 

I think your argument for changing the way the NFL draft works is not supported by the facts, so I would "no" to your plan to change the NFL draft.

[SoTier]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:02 PM, Figster said:

Yet no championship until he is traded so go figure...

 

...Detroit goes further with good coaching then they ever did with Stafford...

 

Detroit goes a lot further since Sheila Ford Hamp became the principal owner of the Lions in 2020 and replaced Bob Quinn with Brad Holmes as GM in 2021.

 

The Bills got a lot further when Terry Pegula became the owner of the Bills in 2013 and finally replaced Russ Brandon as head of the organization in 2018.  With Brandon Beane finally given real power as GM, the Bills fired all of their offensive assistants except Daboll and hired a real QB coach for Allen who went from a raw rookie who flashed potential to a pretty good NFL QB in his second year.

 

On 3/31/2024 at 3:25 PM, Figster said:

Star collegiate athletes probably think the current Drafting procedure is terrible.

 

I'm just trying to fixit Jay ;  )

 

If star collegiate athletes don't want to play for the bottom-dweller du jour, they can a) go play in Canada and play for a lot less money until they become NFL free agents or b) go to work in ordinary entry-level jobs like millions of other college drop-outs or grads or c) finish their degrees or go to grad/professinal schools.   Nobody is being forced to play in the NFL for millions of dollars annually.

 

 

21 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

No offense... But I can tell football fans.. from people who have been around the game for a long time in a professional standpoint... Paid to coach the game

 

You're literally trying to argue that situation's don't impact players which is the biggest thing for professional quarterbacks and players

 

Josh Allen would certainly be better today if he got to sit and learn behind tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick for a year or two... Josh Allen is a Hall of Fame quarterback with some quirks that still pop out under duress... Sitting and learning on the bench helps alleviate those quirks... Mahomes had quirks... Sitting for an entire year help his muscle memory... Helped eliminate quarks under pressure... Josh didn't eliminate those .. he still one of the best quarterbacks in the world... But reverts to bad quirks under pressure... You can really alleviate that with time which he didn't get... Manning didn't get it either and he's one of the best ever.. Brady did get it and he's better

 

Jared Goff didn't get sacked 70 times as a rookie and get his brain scrambled.. he was behind a good yet old school NFL coach... Jeff Fisher maybe wasn't ready for the new school of the NFL... Certainly knows the psyche behind developing a young player

 

Peyton Manning had 28 interceptions as a rookie that doesn't mean he was ruined... Because he was getting raised the correct way to know that's not an issue... The support to keep him positive... You're on a bad team 28 interceptions is okay

 

And Jared Goff is average , certainly not an NFL superstar... So a number one pick who is supposed to be in All pro... Has became an average NFL quarterback Due to circumstances

 

Patrick mahomes... Was passed on by 9 NFL teams... Tyreek Hill called him trash as a rookie... But he got to learn the NFL game from the bench... Behind a pro bowl quarterback... And the best quarterback coach of the last 30 years

 

And he developed beautifully because he wasn't thrown to the fire... 

 

Getting thrown to the fire is the death sentence of a young NFL quarterback... If you can survive being thrown to the fire as a QB you're basically an NFL Hall of famer

 

 

 

 

Andrew Luck was "thrown into the fire" and led the Colts to the playoffs as a rookie.   He led the Colts to the playoffs every season that he played most of the season.  His career was shortened by injury, which could be attributed to the Colts' failure to give him a better OL, but not by not by starting as a rookie.

 

You don't know that Allen would have been better if he sat his entire rookie season.  IMO, many of Allen's problems, especially early on, were psychological and mental.  He did need to sit for a while as a rookie, but what he really needed, was a real QB coach not some guy who had 1 year of QB coaching experience at a college some 20 years before.  The Bills remedied that in 2019, and Allen made massive improvements during his sophomore season and continued to get better.

 

7 hours ago, Figster said:

Bad teams already are staying bad teams for a long time. The Bills didn't make the playoffs for over two decades. So unless you want to call an 8 - 8 season good nothing changed until the Bills hired the McBeane regime. It had ZERO to do with the draft.

 

ZERO...

 

Perpetually losing teams result from issues with ownership IMO.   See my reply above about the Lions and the Bills.  

 

6 hours ago, Figster said:

I'm saying it was our GM and HC that changed everything not WHERE we picked in the draft. Same can be said for the Lions.

 

Comprende?

 

What owners want from their team and how they go about achieving their goals determines whether a team is a perpetual loser or a team that gets better.   FTR, under Ralph Wilson as owner and Russ Brandon as defacto owner, the Bills seldom re-signed their best home-grown talent and used the draft to fill the holes that resulted by letting their best players walk in free agency or by trading them away.  

 

When Pegula finally fired Brandon in 2018 and gave Beane full GM powers (including control of coaching payroll budgets), the Bills truly began their ascent in the AFC.

If Brandon was still in charge, Allen wouldn't have reached his full potential until he was playing for another team.

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by SoTier

[Figster]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

These are the QBs drafted #1 overall since  2000 -

2001 - Michael Vick

2002 - David Carr

2003 - Carson Palmer

2004 - Eli Manning

2005 - Alex Smith

2007 - JaMarcus Russell

2009 - Matthew Stafford

2010 - Sam Bradford

2011 - Cam Newton

2012  - Andrew Luck

2015 - Jameis Winston

2016 - Jared Goff

2018 - Baker Mayfield

2019  - Kyler Murray

2020 - Joe Burrow

2021 - Trevor Lawrence

 

IMO, I see 1 outright bust -- JaMarcus Russell -- and maybe 1 QB who failed primarily because of the team he was drafted by -- David Carr.  Most of the QBs were at least fairly successful NFL QBs even though they generally played for poor teams at the beginning of their careers.

 

I think your argument for changing the way the NFL draft works is not supported by the facts, so I would "no" to your plan to change the NFL draft.

 

 

You expect 1st overall draft picks to become Champions when teams draft them. 10% of this list did. Eli bucked the draft system and Stafford waited for years until traded to the right team. 

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

 

 

You expect 1st overall draft picks to become Champions when teams draft them. 10% of this list did. Eli bucked the draft system and Stafford waited for years until traded to the right team. 

 

That's nonsense.  QBs play for teams, the make-up of which is controlled by other people.   Moreover, winning a Super Bowl, especially when a team gets into the playoffs, is often dependent upon things totally out of the QB's control like injuries, penalties, defensive plays, special team plays, and good or bad luck.