The criticism of Josh Allen

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

18 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Yes he did…in a game that was 2 years ago. It can’t be just 1 time. We’re talking about playoffs here. Where the cream rises to the top. It has to be consistent. 

All was on a platter for him this past playoffs game against KC, at home no less. Had the ball with a chance to eliminate Mahomes and KC. Home crowd cheering on. It would’ve changed his whole narrative this offseason. So how did he answered that opportunity? By  being impatient at the worst possible moment and ultimately didn’t even advance the team to the red zone. Giving his struggling kicker a tough kick in that condition. So the narrative will continue. He has to improve his mental game to take it to level where Mahomes is operating. Until he does Bills will be going home early in the playoffs as always. 

 

How many times did Harrison Butker bail out Mahomes and the Chiefs w/ insanely clutch 50+ yarders ? Or tons of other kickers have done against Buffalo in big games ? That kick was on Bass and it is not Allen’s fault that he missed an easy FG w/ 83% probability rate. He got paid top kicker money so he should routinely make those. It’s not the Scott Norwood days where a 40 yarder is a hit or miss. If Bass was so shaky then they should’ve went for it on 4th down. 

Edited March 31 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

It was the right throw, he just didn’t make it (we all know why, and it wasn’t because of Josh)! Why do we still need to keep talking about it? Yes Diggs was open, so was Shakir! Maybe they still only get a field goal with a pass to Diggs, then Mahomes still gets the winning drive…or is that not part of the narrative you want on that? 

Don’t give me the narrative crap.  I think there is plenty of evidence to say that you don’t want to give Mahomes the ball back with time left.  A first down let’s you run more clock, then kick a FG from closer in and with a lot less time on the clock.

 

Did Josh lose the game?  Of course not - the D with all the injuries needed to hold one more time and couldn’t.  Is Josh great?  Yes.  Can he be even greater?  Also yes.

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

How many times did Harrison Butker bail out Mahomes and the Chiefs w/ insanely clutch 50+ yarders ? Or tons of other kickers have done against Buffalo in big games ? That kick was on Bass and it is not Allen’s fault that he missed an easy FG w/ 83% probability rate. He got paid top kicker money so he should routinely make those. It’s not the Scott Norwood days where a 40 yarder is a hit or miss. If Bass was so shaky then they should’ve went for it on 4th down. 

In the history of the NFL there are only two instances of a QB accounting for 50+ regular and postseason TDs while failing to get to the championship game and Allen has both of them

 

Anyone able to see that as a failing of the quarterback can be safely ignored

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

In the history of the NFL there are only two instances of a QB accounting for 50+ regular and postseason TDs while failing to get to the championship game and Allen has both of them

 

Anyone able to see that as a failing of the quarterback can be safely ignored

None of the other players accounting for  50+ TDs had to play Patty.

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

What's he done?

 

Well, he's beaten Josh Allen in the playoffs. 

 

His career passer rating is 6 percentage points higher.  6!   He has better completion percentage, yards per attempt, and fewer interceptions.   

 

Other than that, he hasn't done anything. 

 

Shaw I think your explanation in the previous post is fine except for bringing Burrow into the conversation and putting him above Josh.

 

I think Burrow is the most overrated QB in the NFL. That's not because I don't think he's really good. It's because he's less of a Tractor and more of a Trailer than Mahomes, Josh and Lamar. Burrow has been widely talked about by many (not all, but a significant and loud enough portion of the national sports media) as the 2nd best QB in the NFL when I think he’s more clearly the 4th or 5th. Aside from his injury history and the whole "the best ability is availability" thing, Burrow had arguably the best WR corps I. The NFL the last few years along with a top 10 RB group.

 

I used to question Mahomes's greatness because he had 2 HOF players as his #1 weapons in Hill and Kelce. I can't question that anymore. I frankly look at Burrow and wonder why the label of greatness was given to him so quickly by so many. I can answer my own question and get to the Super Bowl appearance, but let's be honest, there's a lot of luck involved in winning in the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl.

 

Fact is that Burrow and Mahomes both began their careers with at least a couple E.lite weapons in the passing game and were able to grow into being great QBs with that crutch (along with an Offensive HC of course) and are only now backsliding a little into losing those weapons and needing to be the full Tractor. Mahomes is that Dude. I'm honestly skeptical of Burrow being there considering since his National Championship year in College he's always had more than 1 Elite weapon.

 

And by the way, Burrow has had 2 great seasons total in the NFL. That's it. And he only reached 40 TDs in one of those seasons. And it's not like you can say he was incredible protecting the Football because he had at least 15 turnovers in both of those seasons.

 

Contrast those 2 with Josh Allen, who has been given the opposite trajectory. A horrible roster and no weapons in year 1. A couple pretty good weapons finally in year 2. It wasn't til year 3 he finally got an Elite weapon in Diggs, but he's never had 2 the way Burrow and Mahomes have for multiple years at the beginning of their careers. Hopefully next year is the year he finally has 2+ of them through some combination of Diggs, Kincaid, Cook, rookie WR, etc. But that would be his 7th year before he finally got what Mahomes and Burrow started their careers with.

 

Josh Allen is better than Burrow. He's been the ultimate Tractor carrying this team since his rookie year. If the real criticism of Allen with relattin to this Burrow vs Allen argument is #QBwinz then maybe what McDermott really needs to consider is going old school and start using Allen on D as an LB as well as our QB. 

[90sBills]

53 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

How many times did Harrison Butker bail out Mahomes and the Chiefs w/ insanely clutch 50+ yarders ? Or tons of other kickers have done against Buffalo in big games ? That kick was on Bass and it is not Allen’s fault that he missed an easy FG w/ 83% probability rate. He got paid top kicker money so he should routinely make those. It’s not the Scott Norwood days where a 40 yarder is a hit or miss. If Bass was so shaky then they should’ve went for it on 4th down. 

How many times did Vinatieri bailed out Brady? That’s not the point as Brady is considered the goat. 
 

Let’s say Bass made that kick. So now Mahomes has 1:45 roughly to take his team down for a winning fg. You’re confident that Bills would be able to stop him?

 

Whenever this topic gets discussed it’s always all the other part of the team that needs improving except the main part. Allen is a top 3 qb in the league but he does have room for improvement. Just like all other QBs, including the best guy in Mahomes. 
 

Edit:

Regarding your op I haven’t seen the national media crapping on Allen. I watch alot of national sports shows. The narrative of Allen is not being able to get past Mahomes in the playoffs. Even though Allen lost to Burrow that’s not really discussed at all. If you’re reading comments on Twitter and YouTube etc then it’s a different story and one that should be ignored. 

Edited March 31 by 90sBills

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Shaw I think your explanation in the previous post is fine except for bringing Burrow into the conversation and putting him above Josh.

 

I think Burrow is the most overrated QB in the NFL. That's not because I don't think he's really good. It's because he's less of a Tractor and more of a Trailer than Mahomes, Josh and Lamar. Burrow has been widely talked about by many (not all, but a significant and loud enough portion of the national sports media) as the 2nd best QB in the NFL when I think he’s more clearly the 4th or 5th. Aside from his injury history and the whole "the best ability is availability" thing, Burrow had arguably the best WR corps I. The NFL the last few years along with a top 10 RB group.

 

I used to question Mahomes's greatness because he had 2 HOF players as his #1 weapons in Hill and Kelce. I can't question that anymore. I frankly look at Burrow and wonder why the label of greatness was given to him so quickly by so many. I can answer my own question and get to the Super Bowl appearance, but let's be honest, there's a lot of luck involved in winning in the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl.

 

Fact is that Burrow and Mahomes both began their careers with at least a couple E.lite weapons in the passing game and were able to grow into being great QBs with that crutch (along with an Offensive HC of course) and are only now backsliding a little into losing those weapons and needing to be the full Tractor. Mahomes is that Dude. I'm honestly skeptical of Burrow being there considering since his National Championship year in College he's always had more than 1 Elite weapon.

 

And by the way, Burrow has had 2 great seasons total in the NFL. That's it. And he only reached 40 TDs in one of those seasons. And it's not like you can say he was incredible protecting the Football because he had at least 15 turnovers in both of those seasons.

 

Contrast those 2 with Josh Allen, who has been given the opposite trajectory. A horrible roster and no weapons in year 1. A couple pretty good weapons finally in year 2. It wasn't til year 3 he finally got an Elite weapon in Diggs, but he's never had 2 the way Burrow and Mahomes have for multiple years at the beginning of their careers. Hopefully next year is the year he finally has 2+ of them through some combination of Diggs, Kincaid, Cook, rookie WR, etc. But that would be his 7th year before he finally got what Mahomes and Burrow started their careers with.

 

Josh Allen is better than Burrow. He's been the ultimate Tractor carrying this team since his rookie year. If the real criticism of Allen with relattin to this Burrow vs Allen argument is #QBwinz then maybe what McDermott really needs to consider is going old school and start using Allen on D as an LB as well as our QB. 

Thanks for this.  I don't disagree much - you raise some really good points.   

 

I don't think Josh being the ultimate tractor carrying his team, which he is, makes Josh a good QB.  Michael Vick carried his team, too.   What I said about Josh, and have said for a long time, is that his number one job is to execute the offense at a very high level, and although he improved a lot at it last season, he still isn't elite.  

 

I've said something like this before.   Maybe you've got 40 offensive plays in the game, and the QB's job on 30-32 of them is to execute the play as designed, on schedule, making the right decisions and quality throws on 100% of them.   Mahomes does that.  Burrow does that.  Brady did that.   On the other 8 or 10 plays, the QB has to bail his team out, go off script and make something happen.   Allen may be the best in the league at that, and only Mahomes compares with him.   And in that category that Burrow falls down.   He's more like Brock Purdy or Tua on steroids - he's superb at all the throws that he can make on script, but if the on-script play isn't there, things tend to fall apart with him.  

 

Josh needs to be better on those on-script plays.  

[GoBills808]

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

None of the other players accounting for  50+ TDs had to play Patty.

It's actually 2/3 w the other being Manning 04 now that I fact check ESPN

 

Point still stands tho

 

and the Bengals have proven getting torn apart by Mahomes in the playoffs isn't an inevitability 

 

 

[ToGoGo]

27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Shaw I think your explanation in the previous post is fine except for bringing Burrow into the conversation and putting him above Josh.

 

I think Burrow is the most overrated QB in the NFL. That's not because I don't think he's really good. It's because he's less of a Tractor and more of a Trailer than Mahomes, Josh and Lamar. Burrow has been widely talked about by many (not all, but a significant and loud enough portion of the national sports media) as the 2nd best QB in the NFL when I think he’s more clearly the 4th or 5th. Aside from his injury history and the whole "the best ability is availability" thing, Burrow had arguably the best WR corps I. The NFL the last few years along with a top 10 RB group.

 

I used to question Mahomes's greatness because he had 2 HOF players as his #1 weapons in Hill and Kelce. I can't question that anymore. I frankly look at Burrow and wonder why the label of greatness was given to him so quickly by so many. I can answer my own question and get to the Super Bowl appearance, but let's be honest, there's a lot of luck involved in winning in the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl.

 

Fact is that Burrow and Mahomes both began their careers with at least a couple E.lite weapons in the passing game and were able to grow into being great QBs with that crutch (along with an Offensive HC of course) and are only now backsliding a little into losing those weapons and needing to be the full Tractor. Mahomes is that Dude. I'm honestly skeptical of Burrow being there considering since his National Championship year in College he's always had more than 1 Elite weapon.

 

And by the way, Burrow has had 2 great seasons total in the NFL. That's it. And he only reached 40 TDs in one of those seasons. And it's not like you can say he was incredible protecting the Football because he had at least 15 turnovers in both of those seasons.

 

Contrast those 2 with Josh Allen, who has been given the opposite trajectory. A horrible roster and no weapons in year 1. A couple pretty good weapons finally in year 2. It wasn't til year 3 he finally got an Elite weapon in Diggs, but he's never had 2 the way Burrow and Mahomes have for multiple years at the beginning of their careers. Hopefully next year is the year he finally has 2+ of them through some combination of Diggs, Kincaid, Cook, rookie WR, etc. But that would be his 7th year before he finally got what Mahomes and Burrow started their careers with.

 

Josh Allen is better than Burrow. He's been the ultimate Tractor carrying this team since his rookie year. If the real criticism of Allen with relattin to this Burrow vs Allen argument is #QBwinz then maybe what McDermott really needs to consider is going old school and start using Allen on D as an LB as well as our QB. 

 

Don't give in on Mahomes yet. Wait til Kelce retires. That's when the real judgement begins. 

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

and the Bengals have proven getting torn apart by Mahomes in the playoffs isn't an inevitability 

 

Only the Bills have this problem every year. The Chiefs were shut out in two entire halfs over the AFCCG and Super Bowl. Every defense they've ever faced from the divisional round on has put up a better fight than we ever have. I'm not asking for us to shut them out for an entire half. Just a decent defensive performance would practically guarantee us a win.

 

Edited March 31 by HappyDays

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Only the Bills have this problem every year. The Chiefs were shut out in two entire halfs over the AFCCG and Super Bowl. Every defense they've ever faced from the divisional round on has put up a better fight than we ever have. I'm not asking for us to shut them out for an entire half. Just a decent defensive performance would practically guarantee us a win.

 

He’s 15-3 in the playoffs, with two losses to Brady.

 

I would argue pretty much everyone seems to have a problem with the big homie.

[ghostwriter]

14 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

He's a top 3 QB in the league. Of course he's gonna get plenty of hate.

Until he gets that first ring he’ll have that monkey on his back..

[LeGOATski]

8 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Until he gets that first ring he’ll have that monkey on his back..

 

Yep. Other great QBs get the same flack. It shouldn't surprise anyone.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

 

Yep. Other great QBs get the same flack. It shouldn't surprise anyone.

Nah. Burrow always skates and Lamar's in the HOF already. Allen gets judged on a different criteria

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Nah. Burrow always skates and Lamar's in the HOF already. Allen gets judged on a different criteria

????

[LeGOATski]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Nah. Burrow always skates and Lamar's in the HOF already. Allen gets judged on a different criteria

If both of those guys keep failing to win the Super Bowl, they'll face the same criticism. Jackson is overrated, but still gets plenty of flack. Allen gets plenty of praise along with it. He's not a pariah.

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

????

For better or worse I consume a ton of NFL content 

 

Imo the amount of criticism Allen gets from prominent media outlets is disproportionate 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, ToGoGo said:

 

Don't give in on Mahomes yet. Wait til Kelce retires. That's when the real judgement begins. 

Why stop there. Let’s see what happens after Reid retires. Even then there’s still plenty of space to move those goal posts. 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Nah. Burrow always skates and Lamar's in the HOF already. Allen gets judged on a different criteria

There’s a better chance of Josh making the HOF and Lamar missing it than vice versa. At this point, there’s simply no way to say that Allen isn’t a top 2 QB.  Arguments can be made that in any given year he didn’t produce at a top 2 level, but that’s him against the field.  Burrow may have had a better three years ago, and Hurts may have had a better season two years ago, and Lamar may have had a better season last year, but on the whole Josh is easily better than all of them.  20 years from now, nobody is going to rank Lamar above Josh on the all time list.  I’m a huge Lamar fan, but any list that has Lamar on it is a pretty long list.

[Neo]

Josh could be better.   Anyone could be better.   The media talking about a top five guy getting better in Buffalo is missing a more important conversation.   Twenty one other starters and a coaching staff improving even marginally could make Allen among the best of all time.

 

It’s like Da Vinci being told Mona could’ve smiled a little bit while he’s sitting next to me in my middle school art class.