The unsexy, unexciting first round pick

[The Firebaugh Kid]

If not Brian Thomas, it'll be Troy Franklin. They know they need speed. 

[Turbo44]

18 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I want to win a super bowl next year. I understand the wr thought process, it's just a question of when and to what degree a wr can help. I want the help this year, don't care about the future while we have Josh, have to be worried about 2024. 

how are Franklin’s analytics? Bills seem to be spending a lot of time with him. Pac10, or wherever he played bs sec is thought to quantify 

6 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

If not Brian Thomas, it'll be Troy Franklin. They know they need speed. 

Also if speed is the factor, why not worthy over Franklin?

[Rigotz]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

That was Chris Jones on Dawkins, not on Morse. Anyways, Chris Jones is a mismatch against any offensive lineman in the final minutes of a game, other than maybe 6 or 7 guys in the entire league. You aren't going to get over the hump by improving at center and expect to just take Chris Jones out of the game. We get over the hump by out scoring KC. Which means when three perfect deep balls hit the intended receiver in the hands, we can't have all three of them hitting the ground.

 

Where did I say it was Morse?

 

Do me a favor. Keep an open mind. Watch the last drive, starting at 6:40:

 

 

1st play -- 6:40 -- McGovern stonewalled. Morse chips NOBODY and immediately moves to the 2nd level. It's the miscommunication we heard about all season between McGovern and Morse. 

 

2nd play -- 7:42 -- Yes, Dawkins left on and island against Jones. McGovern singled inside. O'Cyrus stays inside to help who? Morse. For those who understand the intricacies of O-Line play... you NEVER want Dawkins singled up on a player like Jones on a passing down. You want McGovern to slide protection left and confidence in Morse to handle his own on the interior. They didn't do that. Why do you think that is?

 

3rd play -- 8:27 -- Right Tackle and Right Guard singled up. Help on Morse's side again. Morse holds his block (with help), but the right side gets blown up on singles, forcing Josh to roll right and throw the ball away.

 

Center was the weak link last year. You can see this every game. We cut Morse and he signed for $5M/yr by the Jags, who are overpaying everyone.

 

Feel free to argue that Center isn't important, but the money tells you the value of what we had and why we made a change.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

You want McGovern to slide protection left and confidence in Morse to handle his own on the interior. They didn't do that. Why do you think that is?

 

They didn't do that because our coaching inevitably fails in critical moments in playoff games year after year after year. There were multiple coaching issues during that final offensive series. Wasting a 1st round pick on the easiest offensive position to fill besides RB would not solve that problem.

 

Even if you want to say center was a problem last year, fine. It's an easily solvable problem without using a 1st round pick. Outside WR is not so easily solvable.

[SoTier]

21 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

This is a falsehood.  If anything sets you up for failure, it is wasting draft picks trading up for a specific player.  

 

 

I think it depends upon the specific player they draft -- and the priorities of the FO that led them to make that trade.   It's easy for fans to say, "we have to draft a QB in this draft!" but that's not always possible.  

 

It was a big-time fail when the Bills determined they were going to take a QB in the first round of the 204 draft, so they traded their 2005 first rounder plus a second rounder and another pick to move back into the first to take JP Losman at #22 after taking Lee Evans at #13 when the top three prospects in that draft class (Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger) were gone by pick #11.   If a QB isn't a good value to take at #13 why ever would you trade so much to take him 9 picks later?  

 

It was also a fail in 2013 when the Bills traded back to take EJ Manuel because he wasn't really a first round prospect at all -- none of the QBs in the 2013 class were -- but the Bills took him anyway.

 

Drafting a QB in the first round -- and having him play early -- is a sure way to excite fans into buying tickets, especially if the team has missed the playoffs for several years.   The top priority of the Bills FO during Ralph Wilson's last years was to maximize profits by putting butts in the seats.  

 

It sure wasn't a fail for the Bills to trade up to #7 in 2018 to take Josh Allen.   I doubt that they would have made that move up to draft any of the other QBs in the 2018 draft because McBeane's top priority has always been to win football games, and they wanted Allen.   Would they have settled for one of the other first round QBs in 2018 if Allen was gone earlier?   I'm really not sure.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

There's nothing unsexy about drafting OL

 

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

There's nothing unsexy about drafting OL

 

Maybe 20 years ago fans would find an offensive line pick “boring” but the NFL is so starved for offensive line play that most fanbases want their teams to take offensive linemen up high

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Maybe 20 years ago fans would find an offensive line pick “boring” but the NFL is so starved for offensive line play that most fanbases want their teams to take offensive linemen up high

Problem is when you took an OT in the first round in the past you felt like you were getting a 10 year starter. 

Now O-line play is so bad in college it's as big of a gamble as all the other players. It's all 2 point stances and spread offense in college except for a few programs like Michigan and Alabama 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

This incorrect. There's a difference between sacks and pressure.

 

Pressure is the reason Josh Allen didn't hit Khalil Shakir on the final drive and we had to settle for a Field Goal... which was missed.

 

Pat Mahomes faced 2 QB pressures the entire game, according to PFF. Josh faced 8.

 

Ed Oliver has zero defensive pressures on 13 head to head snaps vs Joe Thuney. 

 

 

 

No what I said isn't incorrect...........you just disagree that sacks and QB hits are as meaningful as "pressures".

 

It's the opposite.   The lack of hits and sacks allowed Allen to dominate the Chiefs defense in small chunks all day.   For Allen and Mahomes,  pressures are usually more aptly called "opportunities" to get out of the pocket and make plays.

 

You won't get any argument from me on the impact and the value of having a Chris Jones though.   The pressure he got on the play in question was big but Allen had been checking that ball down all day with great success.   They got greedy and it made no sense why.   Bad decision making by the Bills allowed Jones to make an impact he hadn't been able to prior.   And as @HappyDays said,  that was against LT Dion Dawkins.   I am much better with selecting a LT in round 1 and playing him at guard as a rookie.   

 

 

Edited March 29 by BADOLBILZ

[Rigotz]

Alright, I tried.

 

This is not a coaching issue. It's a player issue. You don't slide protection away from the best player on the defensive line unless you have to. 

 

We're not going to agree on this one because you guys would rather blame coaching and say the Center is irrelevant and all those other hot takes. We'll see what happens on draft day.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:29 AM, SoCal Deek said:

What if it turns out that McGovern actually makes a great Center? What if he was sitting there waiting for Morse to retire? Do we know that he isn’t? 

Exactly. I hope they role with McGovern. He really impressed me last season 

[ghostwriter]

Center or IOL is never a bad investment but I think that a WR, DE or DT push the needle forward more but I’m not telling you to not take a center though either.

[nosejob]

14 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

Where did I say it was Morse?

 

Do me a favor. Keep an open mind. Watch the last drive, starting at 6:40:

 

 

1st play -- 6:40 -- McGovern stonewalled. Morse chips NOBODY and immediately moves to the 2nd level. It's the miscommunication we heard about all season between McGovern and Morse. 

 

2nd play -- 7:42 -- Yes, Dawkins left on and island against Jones. McGovern singled inside. O'Cyrus stays inside to help who? Morse. For those who understand the intricacies of O-Line play... you NEVER want Dawkins singled up on a player like Jones on a passing down. You want McGovern to slide protection left and confidence in Morse to handle his own on the interior. They didn't do that. Why do you think that is?

 

3rd play -- 8:27 -- Right Tackle and Right Guard singled up. Help on Morse's side again. Morse holds his block (with help), but the right side gets blown up on singles, forcing Josh to roll right and throw the ball away.

 

Center was the weak link last year. You can see this every game. We cut Morse and he signed for $5M/yr by the Jags, who are overpaying everyone.

 

Feel free to argue that Center isn't important, but the money tells you the value of what we had and why we made a change.

I agree and heard quite a bit of talk about the communication issue. I also believe Edwards is actually a better LG than McGovern. Running left this year is gonna be bread and butter. Also, I think Cyrus is gonna become dominant thanks to the schooling he got from the likes of Wilkins.

[JerseyBills]

best C in the draft..