Replay Review Approved for Game Clock Expiration before Snap

[PetermansRedemption]

Leave it to the NFL to solve a miniscule problem (game clock) and completely ignore the actual, frequent problem (play clock) 

[Behindenemylines]

4 hours ago, gordong said:

they will find a way to have two different standards on this one too. 

Exactly.  It will be known as the KC Timeclock Tuck rule. Unless the clock is fully expired “past” zero meaning a negative time of 1 second the play will be valid-but only for KC. 

[frostbitmic]

One would think that a delay of game call would be the easiest call for NFL Referees to make ... Apparently not.

 

 

[Brand J]

21 hours ago, Simon said:

 

The play clock is kept by the back judge I believe; what you see on the screen is not the official clock, just an estimate.

This rule is for the game clock only, it will not affect the play clock.

 

 

It happened last year in an NFC game at the end of a quarter.

That’s probably the only time it ever happened. Either the team lets the clock run out or they do the fake snap count before the quarter expires. In the other instances, I feel like they’ve batted 100 in the times the game clock was running down and the offensive team couldn’t get a play off or spike the ball before it hit 00:00.

[LeGOATski]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:43 AM, Simon said:

 

The play clock is kept by the back judge I believe; what you see on the screen is not the official clock, just an estimate.

The refs have confirmed multiple times that the back judge looks up at the play clock and if he sees it hit zero, then looks back down and the snap happens within a second, they let it go. 

 

It's the most black and white thing that they made gray for no reason and are very inconsistent on.

13 hours ago, Brand J said:

That’s probably the only time it ever happened. Either the team lets the clock run out or they do the fake snap count before the quarter expires. In the other instances, I feel like they’ve batted 100 in the times the game clock was running down and the offensive team couldn’t get a play off or spike the ball before it hit 00:00.

And what was the result of the GB game where this supposedly happen? Was there a score? Was there any impact at all?

[GASabresIUFan]

I sometimes think they approved replay in the first place to sell more ad time.

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I sometimes think they approved replay in the first place to sell more ad time.

It's possible. It's supposed to correct mistakes, but sometimes they still get it wrong even after the review.

[QLBillsFan]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:00 AM, Forward Progress said:

In video review, are they still allowing the ~1s of grace or the time up when the clock hits 0?

 

I hope they make it black and white.  There are enough rules built on the judgement of the official... the play clock shouldn't be one of them.

Spot the heck on!! Why did they ever build in the round off error on play clock is ok? So annoying to watch this ridiculous late snap bs. They have a clock, when it hits 0 the whole stadium understands a flag is coming 🤷🏻‍♂️.. seems logical! 

[Big Turk]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:59 AM, Brand J said:

I think that’s what he means. We don’t have a problem with the game clock expiring before a play. 

 

No that is not what they mean...it means game clock as in before the end of the quarter/half, etc..

 

Play clock is too subjective because of the way it is handled by the backjudge who has to look from the clock to the center and see if there is any movement of the ball and due to the kind of arbitrary nature of when it is restarted after the play by the play clock operator.  Technically the play clock could expire but because of the delay of the backjudge looking to the center to see, the snap could still get away and this is considered a legal snap and more importantly the NFL WANTS it to be considered a legal snap and err on the side of the offense.  They do not want more penalties on the offense that could reduce scoring.

 

There was a former NFL official on WGR the other day talking about this after they announced the changes and the reasoning behind why this only involves the game clock and not the play clock, since the game clock has no subjectivity attached to it.

 

 

Edited March 28 by Big Turk

[Big Turk]

17 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Spot the heck on!! Why did they ever build in the round off error on play clock is ok? So annoying to watch this ridiculous late snap bs. They have a clock, when it hits 0 the whole stadium understands a flag is coming 🤷🏻‍♂️.. seems logical! 

 

No it's not spot on, it's misunderstanding how the play clock process actually works and how the the NFL WANTS it to work, erring on the side of the offense, and the gray area that has to exist because of it.  Both due to the backjudge having to look from the playclock to the center and due to the arbitrary nature of when the play clock is started by the operator, which isn't clearly defined and has wiggle room built in.

Edited March 28 by Big Turk

[PetermansRedemption]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No that is not what they mean...it means game clock as in before the end of the quarter/half, etc..

 

Play clock is too subjective because of the way it is handled by the backjudge who has to look from the clock to the center and see if there is any movement of the ball and due to the kind of arbitrary nature of when it is restarted after the play by the play clock operator.  Technically the play clock could expire but because of the delay of the backjudge looking to the center to see, the snap could still get away and this is considered a legal snap and more importantly the NFL WANTS it to be considered a legal snap and err on the side of the offense.  They do not want more penalties on the offense that could reduce scoring.

 

There was a former NFL official on WGR the other day talking about this after they announced the changes and the reasoning behind why this only involves the game clock and not the play clock, since the game clock has no subjectivity attached to it.

 

 

Wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the subjectivity attached to the play clock as well? If they can do it for the game clock they could for the play clock. That’s what frustrates many people. The NFL has enough ambiguous rules. Removing subjectivity where possible seems like a logical step. 
 

Edit to add: The NBA doesn’t seem to have a problem with their shot clock. If it’s at 0 and the ball hasn’t left your hand, it has expired. The NFL should be the same way. If the play clock hits zero and the ball isn’t moving to initiate the snap, it’s a penalty. 

Edited March 28 by PetermansRedemption

[Doc]

So is it game clock or play clock?

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Wouldn’t it make more sense to just remove the subjectivity attached to the play clock as well? If they can do it for the game clock they could for the play clock. That’s what frustrates many people. The NFL has enough ambiguous rules. Removing subjectivity where possible seems like a logical step. 
 

Edit to add: The NBA doesn’t seem to have a problem with their shot clock. If it’s at 0 and the ball hasn’t left your hand, it has expired. The NFL should be the same way. If the play clock hits zero and the ball isn’t moving to initiate the snap, it’s a penalty. 

 

I don't think it is practical honestly.  Sounds good in theory but won't work well in practice. The NFL has looked at this several times from what the former official said and they left it unchanged every time because of that.

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

So is it game clock or play clock?

 

Game clock not play clock.

Edited March 28 by Big Turk

[BillsShredder83]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:02 PM, gordong said:

they will find a way to have two different standards on this one too. 

100%. is anybody ACTUALLY on board with this? replays decision process already sucks, takes forever, is a mystery as how it interpreted/enforced.... refs will be PO'd about it and refuse to change ruling anyways... anddddddd were doing all this for an action that doesnt *actually* effect the outcome of a play. or at least it didnt, now it will

 

LETS GET REPLAY TO REVIEW IF A PLAYERS SHIRT IS UNTUCKED!

it it tucked in? untucked? half tucked? is that part tucked in, or just a little wrinkly in that spot!!!  15yard penalty, automatic first down!!!  lets give the refs more  huge momentum swinging capabilities!!!

 

can not wait to see an offense challenge their own late snap play, that went for a pick 6, get overturned! wowwwweeeeeee thatll be exciting enough to warrant yet another 2min TV timeout during games!!! plus, think of the gambling! how awesome that refs have another out, and there will be self brought, warranted scrutiny, to every snap taken between 1second and -1 second on the playclock.  certainly will make for exciting headlines, articles, fan complaints, and talking head discussions, about who "should've won"

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

No it's not spot on, it's misunderstanding how the play clock process actually works and how the the NFL WANTS it to work, erring on the side of the offense, and the gray area that has to exist because of it.  Both due to the backjudge having to look from the playclock to the center and due to the arbitrary nature of when the play clock is started by the operator, which isn't clearly defined and has wiggle room built in.

I have no misunderstanding. Zero is zero. It’s absolutely insane to have plays go well past that then create a big question . The league of course created this but it’s ridiculous. Get the play into the headset, qb call your reads, snap the ball. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Glad they are doing something about this but it seems like it would b

On 3/26/2024 at 1:17 PM, babulator said:

I hate the extra 9 tenth's of a second they get after it hit's zero. Install a clock with tenths of a second or do away with the extra time all together. This infuriates me lol

The point is once it hits 0 time is up, they give a "half second" or so for the ref to go from looking at the clock to then look if the ball is snapped.  It should not be on human to do that IMO, get it snapped on time or it should be called.  It just looks bad when you can see the replay go to 0 but the play counts

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

I have no misunderstanding. Zero is zero. It’s absolutely insane to have plays go well past that then create a big question . The league of course created this but it’s ridiculous. Get the play into the headset, qb call your reads, snap the ball. 

 

Clearly you do because you are arguing something that the NFL doesn't believe can be fixed properly or want to fix it. Based on what was said by the former official they did in depth reviews of the process multiple times over the years and decided to leave it be.

Edited March 29 by Big Turk

[QLBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Clearly you do because you are arguing something that the NFL doesn't believe can be fixed properly or want to fix it. Based on what was said by the former official they did in depth reviews of the process multiple times over the years and decided to leave it be.

I’ve mentioned they don’t want to change it. You apparently think it’s a good plan to continue as is. That’s fine. I just don’t agree. So agree to disagree. 

[Big Turk]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:20 PM, QLBillsFan said:

I’ve mentioned they don’t want to change it. You apparently think it’s a good plan to continue as is. That’s fine. I just don’t agree. So agree to disagree. 

 

They aren't interested in doing anything that will hurt the offense especially with the murkiness of how the play clock is restarted. Almost every rule change that has occurred over the past decade or more has been to add offense, why would they do something that works against that?

Edited April 2 by Big Turk

[HurlyBurly51]

I hate the Offside review in hockey after a goal is scored, so I'm glad this won't be for the play clock in football.