Brandon Beane Addresses Media - NFL Annual Meeting

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

And I’m not. The only reason why he became the guy at SC was because Wells got hurt this year. You’re not versatile if you’re not on the field. I don’t believe he’s a prospect that will instantly crack the WR rotation. For all his good traits he has just as many bad traits. 

 

I disagree, but that's fine. I am not trying to brainwash anyone, indeed I have said throughout I am higher than the consensus and he is almost certainly a day 2 pick. Nor have I ever disputed the points in respect age and one year production. Those are valid. 

[BillsFan2313]

14 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

His WR description is Ladd McConkey straight up.

 

More like Troy Franklin

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

We need guys that can stretch the field.

I've been thinking about this "stretch-the-field" notion for a few days or weeks now.   I keep thinking about it when I see posts that want us to return to the days of John Brown.  We all loved watching Josh bomb away.

 

The reality is that the league has changed.  Total scoring per game in the league is down six points since 2020.  Rich McKay, who heads the competition committee, says it's down because everyone is playing two-high safeties and because they're calling fewer defensive penalties.  We all know how interference is called has changed a lot in the last few years.  Defenders get away with a lot of contact, including on deep balls, making it that much harder to complete long throws.   A few years ago, pretty much all contact was called, which made the defenders play off the receivers, and that's the era where John Brown could thrive. 

 

Yes, they've had injuries, QBs out, etc., but the guys we like to think of as elite receivers, the tall guys who can stretch the field, are not  dominating any more, especially in the playoffs.  Hill and Lamb put up big numbers, but their teams aren't winning.  Who are the receivers in the winning offenses?  49ers, Bills, Lions, even the Chiefs don't feature deep threats.  They all have guys who can get deep, not guys who "stretch the field."   Why?  Because the defenses are designed to stop those guys getting deep, and those defenses create opportunities for smart, talented, versatile receivers, like the guys you see on the 49ers, Bills, Lions, and Chiefs.  Shakir would have been useless five years ago, because he's not as physical as Beasley.   Five years ago, defenses were designed to stop guys playing like Edelman, and Beas was one of the few who could thrive in it anyway.  Shakir couldn't.  But with defenses now shutting down the deep ball, guys like Shakir - smart, quick, good hands - can get production in middle of the field.  

 

Maybe they'll tinker with the rules again, and maybe we'll see the return of quick-strike offenses, but until that happens, teams have to be built for the way the game is being called.  That means a different breed of receivers are the guys who will be effective. 

 

And that is what Beane was talking about. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

His WR description is Ladd McConkey straight up.

I feel like he fits the description but he doesn’t offer the biggest thing we’re missing in our WR group, someone that can take the top off a defense with the big play. Either with a short pass or over the top. I think Ladd is a smaller and quicker Kincaid.

 

Edited March 25 by Buffalo_Stampede

[34-78-83]

10 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

He also has a ton of flaws in his game as well and will be pushing 24 when hes in the NFL his rookie season. If he was a guy who was 21 I would be more game for him but he's not. There are so many people here who are going to be highly disappointed when the Bills pass on him at 28.

He also played QB before playing WR, which is part of why he's out there at 24. And it also means he's smart enough to play QB at some level, which requires the intelligence BB is talking about.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

 

Yes, they've had injuries, QBs out, etc., but the guys we like to think of as elite receivers, the tall guys who can stretch the field, are not  dominating any more, especially in the playoffs.  Hill and Lamb put up big numbers, but their teams aren't winning.  Who are the receivers in the winning offenses?  49ers, Bills, Lions, even the Chiefs don't feature deep threats.  They all have guys who can get deep, not guys who "stretch the field."   

 

I take the point but Lamb isn't really a deep threat guy. He is mainly a volume, intermediate receiver rather than a guy who you just try and get behind the defense the way the Dolphins do with Hill. I'd say both the 49ers - Aiyuk and the Lions - Williams have guys who are more classic "deep threats" than Lamb. I think your overall thrust which is a guy who just wins deep isn't as valuable is right though. It is the think that makes me leery to an extent on Thomas Jnr. He is the DK comparison for me more than Legette or Franklin or whoever else has been compared at various stages. He is just a run downfield outside guy. He does it really well but the Bills already see a lot of two safety shell. They'd see even more with him on the field. They need a guy who can stretch the field and win deep outside, but who can make yards after the catch as well and be used on some of those intermediate routes - crossers, in cuts, comebacks etc. 

[gonzo1105]

Just now, 34-78-83 said:

He also played QB before playing WR, which is part of why he's out there at 24. And it also means he's smart enough to play QB at some level, which requires the intelligence BB is talking about.

People make this case. There are a lot of QBs in HS who transition to other positions. He’s not special or some outlier when it comes to this. There are 100s of examples of this 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

People make this case. There are a lot of QBs in HS who transition to other positions. He’s not special or some outlier when it comes to this. There are 100s of examples of this 

The Bills put a LOT of stock in RAS scores (because you can't coach physical ability/speed), and Legette's is very high. But Mitchell's is higher, and I won't be surprised if he's the pick (provided he's within reach): https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2024-nfl-combine-top-wr-performers-by-ras/

Edited March 25 by dave mcbride

[34-78-83]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

People make this case. There are a lot of QBs in HS who transition to other positions. He’s not special or some outlier when it comes to this. There are 100s of examples of this 

Thats fine, but those 100's are mostly smart enough to play QB at some level. By the way, Beane said a lot more than just "they need to be versatile and smart". Legette may or may not be their pick at 28 but yes, some of us really like him for his strength, size, versatility and incredible explosiveness. His size to speed ratio is insane. Similarly, a lot of us like AD Mitchell... Heck, I could be happy with Franklin or even Worthy for other reasons.

[bigK14094]

46 minutes ago, Irv said:

We are going for the best DB in the draft.  Plain and simple.  Can't believe there is any talk otherwise.  SMH.  

Is that you McD?

[Sweats]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've been thinking about this "stretch-the-field" notion for a few days or weeks now.   I keep thinking about it when I see posts that want us to return to the days of John Brown.  We all loved watching Josh bomb away.

 

The reality is that the league has changed.  Total scoring per game in the league is down six points since 2020.  Rich McKay, who heads the competition committee, says it's down because everyone is playing two-high safeties and because they're calling fewer defensive penalties.  We all know how interference is called has changed a lot in the last few years.  Defenders get away with a lot of contact, including on deep balls, making it that much harder to complete long throws.   A few years ago, pretty much all contact was called, which made the defenders play off the receivers, and that's the era where John Brown could thrive. 

 

Yes, they've had injuries, QBs out, etc., but the guys we like to think of as elite receivers, the tall guys who can stretch the field, are not  dominating any more, especially in the playoffs.  Hill and Lamb put up big numbers, but their teams aren't winning.  Who are the receivers in the winning offenses?  49ers, Bills, Lions, even the Chiefs don't feature deep threats.  They all have guys who can get deep, not guys who "stretch the field."   Why?  Because the defenses are designed to stop those guys getting deep, and those defenses create opportunities for smart, talented, versatile receivers, like the guys you see on the 49ers, Bills, Lions, and Chiefs.  Shakir would have been useless five years ago, because he's not as physical as Beasley.   Five years ago, defenses were designed to stop guys playing like Edelman, and Beas was one of the few who could thrive in it anyway.  Shakir couldn't.  But with defenses now shutting down the deep ball, guys like Shakir - smart, quick, good hands - can get production in middle of the field.  

 

Maybe they'll tinker with the rules again, and maybe we'll see the return of quick-strike offenses, but until that happens, teams have to be built for the way the game is being called.  That means a different breed of receivers are the guys who will be effective. 

 

And that is what Beane was talking about. 

 

 

I agree, however, stretching the field doesn't always apply to 30-40 or even 50 yards downfield.....it can still be designed and game planned for 10-20 yards with outside slants and crossing routes mixed in.

The underneath and middle can be managed by the TE's and Cook, while the longer routes can be done with Diggs and our rookie WR, but as i say, that doesn't necessarily mean that these "longer" routes will be massive chunks of yardage.

 

It does seem that the intermediate and underneath yardage is the way the game is designed these days, however, you still have to attempt at stretching the field to set up the play action.

Also, with the way that JA creates plays "on the fly", having guys being able to run downfield is a huge bonus for us, as he has shown that if the play is there, he will take it.

If you have guys that can stretch the field AND play tight in the middle for the underneath yardage, you are basically forcing the D to pick their poison. With the proper play-calling, you are telling the D that it's going to be hard to defend both, so which one are you going to defend.

 

Having guys that can stretch the field creates option, which is something this team desperately needs to compete going forward IMO.

 

Remember the 90's Bills?.......Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed managed the slots, the underneath and intermediate yardage, while Lofton stretched the field which in turn created mismatches for opposing D's.......10 minutes into each game, they didn't know what to defend anymore......play the middle and Lofton plays the stretch, play the stretch and then dump into the middle or the slot to Reed or Thomas.

They had options, which is what we need.

 

[Low Positive]

We tend to highlight the busts with only a single year of college production, but we ignore the ones who succeed. Here's Joe Burrow's college stats. One of these things is not like the others.

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-burrow-1.html

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Thats fine, but those 100's are mostly smart enough to play QB at some level. By the way, Beane said a lot more than just "they need to be versatile and smart". Legette may or may not be their pick at 28 but yes, some of us really like him for his strength, size, versatility and incredible explosiveness. His size to speed ratio is insane. Similarly, a lot of us like AD Mitchell... Heck, I could be happy with Franklin or even Worthy for other reasons.

So what took him so long if he was incredibly talented and smart. It’s not like South Carolina had a ton of NFL level talent in front of him. Juice Wells will be drafted but not much beyond that. People don’t want to answer these questions. 
 

There has to be some reason and it’s not he took a long time to learn the position because he was a HS QB. I would actually say and this is an assumption that he might lack intelligence to pick things up

[MasterStrategist]

If Legette had a similar 2022 to his 2023, he'd be a guaranteed top 15-20 pick.  Definitely risky, but I think that teams offense/coaching/QB situation was quite poor in early years.

 

I'd be happy with him at 28, but it's a risky move due to 1 year production/age.  Not sure I've seen Beane go for this type of prospect in past (at least on Day 1).  I'd guess he has a Day 2 grade on him.  I think Leggette is more of an option if we trade up in Rd 2.

 

Another Rd 2 WR to look out for, is Tez Walker.  Highly athletic/RAS score, big time downfield threat.  Bounced around colleges/transfers, I think he could have had more production but he produced across his career.  I think he's certainly got WR2 potential, possible WR1 potential.  Vertical threat that we need

[dave mcbride]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

His comment about a WR prospect needing to be smart and versatile is actually what I specifically did NOT want to hear. It could be a whole lot of nothing, of course, because they tend to value those traits at EVERY position, and it's a GM soundbite during smoke season, BUT...I've been hoping the offensive scheme moves away from the known density and complexity of Daboll's option-heavy route concepts, in favor of at least slightly simplified, more defined pre-snap plays. 

 

The E-P passing system reminds me in some ways of Sexy-Rexy's variable, complicated, check-heavy defensive playbook. IF you have experienced players who are both gifted physically AND with mental processing, then you can have an answer to almost anything your opponent does. But it requires serious preparation and communication and on-field, real-time synchronicity. Rookies (and slower processing prospects) don't often slot right into this type of system. 

 

The more the offense asked of Gabe Davis, for example, the more he struggled. Beasley, Brown, and Diggs, on the other hand, synced up with Josh consistently. I recall Emmanuel Sanders having uneven results (despite some notable successes) during his tenure. More recently, Harty had early trouble getting on the same page with his QB. McKenzie displayed similar troubles when defenses ran more complicated zone concepts. 

I look at it differently than you. My take on what he's saying is that we had a guy in Davis who was not versatile  and -- just as importantly -- not really on-field smart given how many times he and Allen weren't on the same page regarding option routes (and I'm assuming Allen was making correct reads). There are a lot of option routes in the Bills offense, and I think the Bills are totally done with losing games because their X receiver made the wrong decision on an option route (and I think this goes back to the final play of the Vikings game in OT in 2022). The Bills are not moving away from this system because it obviously works if you have the right players -- and the Bills have the right QB and the rest of the right players (Kincaid, Samuel, Diggs, Shakhir). 

[34-78-83]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

So what took him so long if he was incredibly talented and smart. It’s not like South Carolina had a ton of NFL level talent in front of him. Juice Wells will be drafted but not much beyond that. People don’t want to answer these questions. 
 

There has to be some reason and it’s not he took a long time to learn the position because he was a HS QB. I would actually say and this is an assumption that he might lack intelligence to pick things up

I think you're going to deep with all this. Some of us like Legette more than you for the reasons we've listed  (all we can go off are the facts listed about these guys and the film we've seen) but we also won't be heartbroken if its someone else that the Bills take, even another position all together like if someone drops from the top 15. Nuff said really.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I think you're going to deep with all this. Some of us like Legette more than you for the reasons we've listed  (all we can go off are the facts listed about these guys and the film we've seen) but we also won't be heartbroken if its someone else that the Bills take, even another position all together like if someone drops from the top 15. Nuff said really.

I don't have a dog in the Legette fight because I don't know enough, but this scouting report does raise some red flags given what sort of player Beane says he wants at the position: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10095835-xavier-legette-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-south-carolina-wr.

Edited March 25 by dave mcbride

[gonzo1105]

1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said:

I think you're going to deep with all this. Some of us like Legette more than you for the reasons we've listed  (all we can go off are the facts listed about these guys and the film we've seen) but we also won't be heartbroken if its someone else that the Bills take, even another position all together like if someone drops from the top 15. Nuff said really.

No, I think you’re not looking deep enough into it. Again no one answers the question why a highly talented athletic freak struggled to see the field for 4 out of his 5 years. The only thing people point to was he was a HS QB. Well I just pointed out there are hundreds of examples of this and no one wants to rebutt besides well it’s clear you want to disagree. 
 

Can’t point to NFL talent, can’t point to a high level program at South Carolina. So it’s points to something else who knows but I lean towards struggles to process or learn a playbook since he’s so athletically gifted 

[bigK14094]

Tired of the old Carolina analogies.  BB, you have been here 7 years, spare us Carolina references.

[34-78-83]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I don't have a dog in the Legette fight because I don't know enough, but this scouting report does raise some red flags given what sort of player Beane says he wants a the position: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10095835-xavier-legette-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-south-carolina-wr

Yep they're all gonna have some of that where we are picking. There are flaws on AD Mitchell too (some say he takes plays off, not a hands plucker but more of a cradler, etc., size concerns on Worthy, heck Brian Thomas even shows limited routes ran in his critiques).