We have not taken a step back.

[blacklabel]

As long as they have Josh they should be contending. I think, anyways. 

 

I myself did take a step back just now when I stepped on a GD crayon. Toddlers, man. 

[NewEra]

I think we’ve taken a step back @ S, IOL, Edge

 

- safety-  losing Poyer and Hyde will hurt imo.  Some think they were terrible last year, but I disagree.  Neither were terrible.  Neither were nearly as good as they have been in their careers, but they were still solid, yet unspectacular 

- IOL- we’ve currently taken a step back with Edwards in and Morse out.

 

-edge- we’ve currently taken a step back losing Floyd.   But I do think von will be close to what floyd was last year.  Call me crazy.   Floyd was 💩 in the last 1/3 of the season and playoffs.  We will likely address edge with one of our first 3 picks and we could end up being equal to or better getting after the QB next season.  
 

Once the roster is complete, i think we’ll be better @ WR, LB and possibly DT.  

 

-We’ll be better @ TE because Kincaid will be better in year 2.

 

- WR-  a draft pick plus samuel (and Hollins) >>> gabe, Harty, Sherfield.

 

- LB Milano returns-  Bernard and dorian with another year experience and morrow >> matawasteofrodterspotvich

 

-DT-  currently lesser due to lack of backup 3t, but Phillips and settle were somewhat negative entities and Linval was only playing because we were without daquan.  I think Beane will add a better backup 3T

 

——we’re better at QB (Mitch > Kyle), equal at CB (with potential to be better) and equal @ RB (Murray was a jag)

Overall, I don’t think we’re much worse off if worse at all.  Hopefully the improvement at WR will change the complexion of our offense. 
 

-additionally, the subtraction of Dorsey will be an improvement

jmo
 

 

 

 

 

 

[ToGoGo]

Success this year is about restructuring our offensive and defensive philosophy and play calls.

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Success this year is about restructuring our offensive and defensive philosophy and play calls.

 

I can't put into words how right this is.  We are predictable. 

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I read many posts saying this team has taken a step back and truth is we have not. Lets break it down.

Offense:

QB = Same

RB =  Same

WR = Improved. Samuel IS an  upgrade over Davis

OL =  Same/ slightly improved  Morse was old, and light in the butt. McGovern is younger and has played center and been prepping for this moment

TE =  Improved. Kincaid now has a year of experience and will hit the weight room

OC =  improved. I cant wait to see his own system implemented

 

So the offense is slightly improved.

 

Defense:

DL = Same to slightly improved. We are all praying Von improves, and so far I feel we have improved our depth. We need to increase pass rush through the draft.

LB =  Improved. We will get Milano back and our other LB's greatly stepped up

CB: = Slightly Improved. Douglas now has time in our system and a full offseason to get it down. Benford has another year and hopefully the new DB coach can help Elam

Safety: = Slightly improved. This is the one position I expect hysterical wailing and gnashing of teeth on, but Hyde and Poyer were showing their age badly last year. I say the two new starters just have to be smart (keep your damn head and eyes up Rapp!) and be in the right position at the right time and tackle. 

 

Defense = Same to slightly improved

 

Do we still need WR, esp. Diggs replacement and an upgrade, yes. Do we still need to use draft picks on the Defense, Absolutely.  We are always looking to improve, but we are no where near as bad off as some fans, and media, want to make it out to be. 

 

There's a lot of projection going on here and a lot I disagree with:

 

RB: At best, it's a work in progress. In it's current form, to go from Cook, Harris, and Murray to Cook, Murray, and Ty, to Cook, Ty, Evans - that's a downgrade. I liked what Ty brought late in the season going from the Practice Squad to RB3. But I'm not ready to say Cook and Johnson is all we need there and we're good. I would prefer that we either Draft or sign another solid RB rather than just declaring Ty unquestioned RB2. He's earned a promotion to RB3 over the Practice Squad from last season. But RB2? Idk that he's earned that yet.

 

TE: It's literally the same group as last year. We hope Kincaid gets even better in Year 2 - but he was plenty good in Year 1. It's not a given that he's going to be better just bc he's entering Year 2. And I don't think he needs more muscle. He's not a standard TE and you don't want to play him as such. Keep him in the form that he's been successful. Added mass could be a detriment to him just as easily as it could be a plus.

 

OL: Again, that's a projection. While I do believe the things that make McGovern good are a better fit for Center and that, on paper, Edwards next to McGovern should benefit the run blocking game better than Morse next to McGovern - there's no saying this new combination is going to immediately gel as a unit. And when it comes to the depth we had last season vs. the depth we have right now - it's a clear downgrade.

 

OC: Brady in a vacuum should def be better than a guy that was fired. But who knows if given free reign that wherever he implements is going to be 100% compatible with Josh and the players we have? We won't know for sure until we see it in action.

 

DL: It's a definite downgrade right now on paper. DE is the same minus Leonard Floyd and replacing Shaq Lawson with Casey Toohill. At DT - we're missing 2 bodies. Johnson is an upgrade at 1T2 over Settle. But we don't have a 3T2 behind Oliver yet and nothing beyond the 3 we have. There's still additions that need to be made at DL before you can say we're even in the same shape.

 

CB: It's a downgrade right now. To call it in an improvement is another projection. We're currently going from Douglas, Benford, Dane, and Elam on the Boundary to Douglas, Benford, Elam, and... I don't know - Ingram? You hope Elam takes a step forward this year. But if he doesn't, we no longer have a steady hand like Dane to bail us out if Douglas and/or Benford go down.

 

S: Poyer and Hyde weren't Poyer and Hyde last season. I'm higher than most on Edwards ability to start and be successful for us. But in Rapp and Edwards - you've got two guys who have some flaws and are considered to be marginal starters. They've also never played with each other and will take some time to get comfortable with each other. Poyer and Hyde themselves didn't start off being the absolute unit they came to be. And much like CB - our depth has taken a hit. Rapp was a solid 3rd option last season. This year, so far, we have Lewis and Hamlin behind Rapp and Edwards.

 

Long story short, while I agree that the media is overblowing how badly the cap hit us and what we'll be next year bc of it - there's a lot of moving parts where there's no guarantee that things are just going to immediately work out.

 

Positions like OL and Safety may or may not see immediate compatibility. The depth at some positions has taken a definitive hit. And banking that players are going to take a step up in Year 2, players in bigger roles are going to flourish, and that talented Rookies are going to be studs right out of the gate are not guarantees.

 

Edited March 24 by BillsFanForever19

[LeGOATski]

I don't agree on all points, but it is true that the Bills have NOT taken a step back. I expect them to be contenders once again. Hopefully they land an offensive difference maker in the draft and hit the ground running this season. 

[Success]

We had a really good team last season.  I thought it was the best heading INTO the season that we've had in the JA era.  After the weird Jets debacle, we looked it, too.

 

Injuries hit us hard in a short couple of weeks.  We kind of got back on track, but never looked as dominant as we did prior to that. And then injuries hit us again at the end.

 

Playoff success this year will be more about staying healthy than the quality of the team.  The latter is there just as much as it was last year.

 

[Dr. Who]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

There's a lot of projection going on here and a lot I disagree with:

 

RB: At best, it's a work in progress. In it's current form, to go from Cook, Harris, and Murray to Cook, Murray, and Ty, to Cook, Ty, Evans - that's a downgrade. I liked what Ty brought late in the season going from the Practice Squad to RB3. But I'm not ready to say Cook and Johnson is all we need there and we're good. I would prefer that we either Draft or sign another solid RB rather than just declaring Ty unquestioned RB2. He's earned a promotion to RB3 over the Practice Squad from last season. But RB2? Idk that he's earned that yet.

 

TE: It's literally the same group as last year. We hope Kincaid gets even better in Year 2 - but he was plenty good in Year 1. It's not a given that he's going to be better just bc he's entering Year 2. And I don't think he needs more muscle. He's not a standard TE and you don't want to play him as such. Keep him in the form that he's been successful. Added mass could be a detriment to him just as easily as it could be a plus.

 

OL: Again, that's a projection. While I do believe the things that make McGovern good are a better fit for Center and that, on paper, Edwards next to McGovern should benefit the run blocking game better than Morse next to McGovern - there's no saying this new combination is going to immediately gel as a unit. And when it comes to the depth we had last season vs. the depth we have right now - it's a clear downgrade.

 

OC: Brady in a vacuum should def be better than a guy that was fired. But who knows if given free reign that wherever he implements is going to be 100% compatible with Josh and the players we have? We won't know for sure until we see it in action.

 

DL: It's a definite downgrade right now on paper. DE is the same minus Leonard Floyd and replacing Shaq Lawson with Casey Toohill. At DT - we're missing 2 bodies. Johnson is an upgrade at 1T2 over Settle. But we don't have a 3T2 behind Oliver yet and nothing beyond the 3 we have. There's still additions that need to be made at DL before you can say we're even in the same shape.

 

CB: It's a downgrade right now. To call it in an improvement is another projection. We're currently going from Douglas, Benford, Dane, and Elam on the Boundary to Douglas, Benford, Elam, and... I don't know - Ingram? You hope Elam takes a step forward this year. But if he doesn't, we no longer have a steady hand like Dane to bail us out if Douglas and/or Benford go down.

 

S: Poyer and Hyde weren't Poyer and Hyde last season. I'm higher than most on Edwards ability to start and be successful for us. But in Rapp and Edwards - you've got two guys who have some flaws and are considered to be marginal starters. They've also never played with each other and will take some time to get comfortable with each other. Poyer and Hyde themselves didn't start off being the absolute unit they came to be. And much like CB - our depth has taken a hit. Rapp was a solid 3rd option last season. This year, so far, we have Lewis and Hamlin behind Rapp and Edwards.

 

Long story short, while I agree that the media is overblowing how badly the cap hit us and what we'll be next year bc of it - there's a lot of moving parts where there's no guarantee that things are just going to immediately work out.

 

Positions like OL and Safety may or may not see immediate compatibility. The depth at some positions has taken a definitive hit. And banking that players are going to take a step up in Year 2, players in bigger roles are going to flourish, and that talented Rookies are going to be studs right out of the gate are not guarantees.

 

This is all true, I think, but I also believe that if Beane does a reasonable job in the draft, and adds a few dust settles post-draft FAs once Tre's 6/1 money kicks in, the team should be very competitive. RB, S, OL, DT, all that can credibly be improved in the draft. It's also a pretty good draft at CB, so you could find some depth mid-rounds. I don't think edge is likely to be improved much, and if they reach, it's a bad sign, imo. WR early is the big ticket item for a lot of us, and I sure hope Beane prioritizes a playmaker there. Then you just have to hope Brady is up to the job, and Josh thrives with him as OC.

[uticaclub]

But he haven’t taken a step forward. Whaley once said we were in quarterback purgatory, this is playoff purgatory.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

This is all true, I think, but I also believe that if Beane does a reasonable job in the draft, and adds a few dust settles post-draft FAs once Tre's 6/1 money kicks in, the team should be very competitive. RB, S, OL, DT, all that can credibly be improved in the draft. It's also a pretty good draft at CB, so you could find some depth mid-rounds. I don't think edge is likely to be improved much, and if they reach, it's a bad sign, imo. WR early is the big ticket item for a lot of us, and I sure hope Beane prioritizes a playmaker there. Then you just have to hope Brady is up to the job, and Josh thrives with him as OC.

 

I think it's possible, if not likely that Defensive End is addressed the same way it was last year. Looking over the list of Defensive Ends still available (and possibly who's let go after the Draft) - I think there's a good chance someone will be available when Tre's money comes in. Considering the lack of depth in the Draft and where we're picking, DE seems like a sound place to allocate some of Tre's money when it comes in.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if RB is also handled the same way. I think this time around they will Draft a guy and it wouldn't shock me if it were something that they took higher than expected. But if it doesn't fall the way they'd like, I could see him calling up a RB on Draft Day to play the same "let us know if you're in or we'll take a RB here" game we played with Murray last season.

 

All in all, I think he's done a good job and will have everything covered when it's all said and done. But to say we're the same or improved in certain spots already is putting the carriage before the horse a bit. 

Edited March 25 by BillsFanForever19

[Success]

I get the sentiments that we haven't taken a step forward either - and agree.  But we didn't need to.

 

We're as good as anyone.  Differences are marginal.  

 

We need to figure out how to win playoff games.  It has more to do w/ strategy & psychology than it does w/ talent.

 

[Richard Noggin]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is right around 8th.... as I said yesterday I think probably 5th or 6th best in the AFC and then there is San Fran, Detroit and possibly still Philly in the NFC. It is definitely a step back on where the roster has been. But there is still a chance to change that if they can crush the draft. But they need like a 2017 Saints type draft and they don't have the 6 picks in the first 103 that the Saints had and nailed that year.

 

You made me use Google on my own to look up that 2017 Saints draft. How could you. 

 

First four picks (2 on day one and 2 on day two) were all immediate, important contributors. Really made a difference. Last three picks eventually became legitimate contributors (especially for day three picks), but the best of that bunch, Trey Hendrickson, only finally did so in year four and then left in FA to continue that level of production elsewhere. 100% of picks became NFL contributors. Unusually successful haul. Interesting that many of the prospects had injury histories, and all of them overcame those concerns.

 

9 hours ago, 90sBills said:

It matters because these playoffs exits have proven that just having Allen is not enough. He needs help. 

 

Look what he did with decent NFL WRs in recent years. Imagine what he could do with a day one talent (two if you include Kincaid). 

 

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Then we should compare ourselves to the playoff teams that keep showing us the door.

 

Have we closed the gap between us and KC by cutting Mitch Morse and moving McGovern to center and making Rapp a starting safety?

 

No. Obviously not.

 

KC has similarly taken their roster/cap medicine and come out the other side even more successful. Rebooting their OL, starting over at WR, and completely overhauling their secondary, didn't set them back when it mattered most. It was necessary, in fact, to keep the cap from becoming a problem. 

 

The Bills just did their own roster reset. Had to happen. Now we'll see if they can likewise get development and production out of cheaper, younger players. 

[Turk71]

To call Rapp and Edwards an improvement at safety is completely ridiculous. 

[CaptnCoke11]

21 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

To call Rapp and Edwards an improvement at safety is completely ridiculous. 

It actually might be from the last two seasons.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

It actually might be from the last two seasons.  

 

It might be better than Jaquan Johnson and Damar Hamlin - sure. But Hyde and Poyer played most of last year and while they were not the force of old people now seem to be rewriting history as if they were liabilities.

[Turk71]

McGovern an upgrade at center?

He was not good as a guard and people expect him to be a good center?

Has he even played much center in the NFL? He was a center in college his sophomore year then moved to guard. 

 If that's the plan for next season it's a potential disaster imo. 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Turk71 said:

McGovern an upgrade at center?

He was not good as a guard and people expect him to be a good center?

Has he even played much center in the NFL? He was a center in college his sophomore year then moved to guard. 

 If that's the plan for next season it's a potential disaster imo. 

 

 

He was good as a guard.

[Turk71]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was good as a guard.

Good?

As in better than average?

I disagree. He was not.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Turk71 said:

Good?

As in better than average?

I disagree. He was not.

 

Yes he was.

[Turk71]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes he was.

You are welcome to your opinion and I hope he is a good center.

  I'm not confident that the line will be as good as last year, and definitely not confident they can stay healthy all season like last year.

I consider last year's line somewhere in the middle....average.

Average is the same as really good for the Bills...