DB Class Discussion

[OldTimer1960]

The Bills appear to have done what they could to shore up the secondary before the draft.  They now at least have veterans who have played S in the NFL in FA signees Taylor Rapp and Mike Edwards.  At CB they still have Rasul Douglas and Christian Benford to start with Kaiir Elam the top remaining backup - and he is questionable after 2 seasons in which the coaches did not trust him to play much.

 

Given that Douglas is close to 30 and is expensive and neither Rapp nor Edwards have been consistent starters so it is conceivable that they take a CB or S early - even round 1 if they really like the prospect.  Now, I'm not advocating using their 1st on a DB this year, but I could really imagine Beane and McDermott loving Cooper Dejean - though he has yet to workout while recovering from a broken fibula.

 

We have reports that the Bills met with the following DBs at the Combine (list may be incomplete):

- Cooper Dejean - He is the opposite of DE Chop Robinson, Dejean has outstanding production and really fits the McDermott profile.  Don't know if he can play CB to 1st round level in the NFL, but he could be a dynamite S. 

- Kamari Lassiter (CB) - He is very quick, but he skipped the 40 at the Combine and ran 4.61 at his pro day.  I think the 4.61 eliminates him from consideration before the 3rd at the earliest.  Bills' new DB coach coached him previously.

- Javon Bullard (S) - Could see the Bills being interested, but nowhere near the 1st round.  Bills' new DB coach also had Bullard at Georgia.

- Kamren Kinchens (S) - his athletic numbers at the combine were borderline undraftable, but the Bills have strong connection to Kinchens (new DB coach had him at Miami) 

- Calen Bullock (S) 

 

Let's discuss!

Edited March 23 by OldTimer1960

[TheBeaneBandit]

Douglas is 30. CB could happen anywhere anytime. Aways remember, never forget 😂😆😂. 

[Matt_In_NH]

There is no depth at CB.....Jamarcus Ingram....not so sure.   They have lost Tre and Dane Jackson as depth...that is significant.

 

Safety is similar, Rapp and Edwards then what?  Hamlin and Cam Lewis (190 lb) don't make me too confident.   They will fill in to get to 90 with some bodies, they need a couple to really stand out.

 

This team will not have the depth they had in recent years on paper going into the season and that is OK by me since they are getting a little healthier cap wise.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

There is no depth at CB.....Jamarcus Ingram....not so sure.   They have lost Tre and Dane Jackson as depth...that is significant.

 

Safety is similar, Rapp and Edwards then what?  Hamlin and Cam Lewis (190 lb) don't make me too confident.   They will fill in to get to 90 with some bodies, they need a couple to really stand out.

 

This team will not have the depth they had in recent years on paper going into the season and that is OK by me since they are getting a little healthier cap wise.

That’s right.  I support what they are doing, but it is likely to cause short-term pain on D.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

There is no depth at CB.....Jamarcus Ingram....not so sure.   They have lost Tre and Dane Jackson as depth...that is significant.

 

Safety is similar, Rapp and Edwards then what?  Hamlin and Cam Lewis (190 lb) don't make me too confident.   They will fill in to get to 90 with some bodies, they need a couple to really stand out.

 

This team will not have the depth they had in recent years on paper going into the season and that is OK by me since they are getting a little healthier cap wise.

Draft all the DB's McDermott wants from rounds 4 - 7. Go nuts Sean.

[Motorin']

[BBFL]

Absolutely loaded with talent at Safety this year. 
 

CB I think falls out of the range talent wise to be picking at 60 but you never know. Pretty top heavy and I feel it thins out between the middle of round 2 to round 5. 
 

Might have to target one of those Penn State boys, all 3; Dixon, Hardy & King, have talent. King probably goes in the 3rd IMO and Hardy the last of that trio purely down to size. 
 

Oregon’s Jackson is intriguing, big body who uses him frame well to contest catches; only problem is he has a tendency to hang on and grab the matchup he’s guarding. Needs some refinement there. 
 

Jarrian Jones and Cam Hart are two CBS I’m keeping an eye on. Look to have the tools to be decent boundary players. 
 

Only concern is why they moved Jones primarily to slot CB at FSU this year when the two prior he was solid outside… Think he’s better than Cypress and a little worse than Green who’s coming out this draft also. 
 

Do need to draft a CB and at least 1 safety though…

 

Will be interesting to see the revamp. 
 

 

Edited March 24 by BBFL

[Matt_In_NH]

43 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Draft all the DB's McDermott wants from rounds 4 - 7. Go nuts Sean.

So two dl in rounds 1-2 and 9 dbs in 4-7.   Got it.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

38 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

So two dl in rounds 1-2 and 9 dbs in 4-7.   Got it.  

That would be the McDermott  way would it lol

[bobobonators]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

There is no depth at CB.....Jamarcus Ingram....not so sure.   They have lost Tre and Dane Jackson as depth...that is significant.

 

Safety is similar, Rapp and Edwards then what?  Hamlin and Cam Lewis (190 lb) don't make me too confident.   They will fill in to get to 90 with some bodies, they need a couple to really stand out.

 

This team will not have the depth they had in recent years on paper going into the season and that is OK by me since they are getting a little healthier cap wise.

You don’t know that. We lost corner after corner last season and players kept stepping up. Players who fans viewed as not being depth going into last season. Same for the LB corps. 

[BBFL]

35 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

You don’t know that. We lost corner after corner last season and players kept stepping up. Players who fans viewed as not being depth going into last season. Same for the LB corps. 

You’re right but his point was depth. Which, as it stands is 2 practice squad guys from last season; Ja’marcus Ingram and Kyren Brown… They didn’t get called up for a reason. 

 

Personally I don’t think the quartet of Benford/Douglas/Johnson/Elam is that bad but it certainly could be better behind them.  Liked what I saw from Ingram on the limited action he saw on the field and so did the Bills hence the futures contract he signed at the end of the season.

 

Do need some other bodies in there for the same reason you also stated; we lost corner after corner. Need to get 2 if not 3 more guys to enter the start of the camps. Having enough DBs is never a bad thing in today’s game. Especially with the luck we’ve had the past 3 years. 

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by BBFL

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

You don’t know that. We lost corner after corner last season and players kept stepping up. Players who fans viewed as not being depth going into last season. Same for the LB corps. 

Dane Jackson stepped up Rasul Douglass stepped up.   They were both known quantities.  The bills had white benford jackson and Elam going into last season…three with significant starting experience and one first round rookie.  This year you have Douglas benford and Elam as known quantities.  It’s not a huge emergencencybut CB depth is light compared to lat year. 

[khlax3]

I think they will use a 4th or 5th on a corner and then also grab a guy in the summer before camp opens in FA. There will be guys cut after the draft and we have tre’s money opening up after 6/1. I don’t believe Levi Wallace has signed anywhere yet he could be their fallback option. 
 

I do think they want to give Elam a shot at corner this year as the number 3. He has shown some flashes when he has gotten in and eventually they need to let him play some. 
 

I am not a big Hamlin fan but he did start the majority of games prior to last season. I think they intentionally had him inactive most of last season due to numbers but also to ease him back in mentally. As a 4th or 5th saftey he is fine. I would expect a guy in the middle rounds at saftey as well. Tykee smith makes a lot of sense. Played under Addae at WVU and Georgia. Has experience in both SEC and Big 12 and has played in 2 different schemes. He is slightly under sized but fairly athletic with a 4.46 40.

Edited March 25 by khlax3

[gonzo1105]

3 hours ago, BBFL said:

Absolutely loaded with talent at Safety this year. 
 

CB I think falls out of the range talent wise to be picking at 60 but you never know. Pretty top heavy and I feel it thins out between the middle of round 2 to round 5. 
 

Might have to target one of those Penn State boys, all 3; Dixon, Hardy & King, have talent. King probably goes in the 3rd IMO and Hardy the last of that trio purely down to size. 
 

Oregon’s Jackson is intriguing, big body who uses him frame well to contest catches; only problem is he has a tendency to hang on and grab the matchup he’s guarding. Needs some refinement there. 
 

Jarrian Jones and Cam Hart are two CBS I’m keeping an eye on. Look to have the tools to be decent boundary players. 
 

Only concern is why they moved Jones primarily to slot CB at FSU this year when the two prior he was solid outside… Think he’s better than Cypress and a little worse than Green who’s coming out this draft also. 
 

Do need to draft a CB and at least 1 safety though…

 

Will be interesting to see the revamp. 
 

 

I 100% disagree on the Safety class being loaded. Does it have some depth to it I can get behind that but outside of Cooper DeJean, I don’t have a 2nd round grade on another safety. It’s not loaded it has some developmental depth prospects 

[4merper4mer]

I’ll wait to hear what @Bill from NYC  thinks.

[BBFL]

19 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I 100% disagree on the Safety class being loaded. Does it have some depth to it I can get behind that but outside of Cooper DeJean, I don’t have a 2nd round grade on another safety. It’s not loaded it has some developmental depth prospects 

 Personally, there’s at least 20-25 guys who will get drafted at that position. That, at a minimum is 10% of the draft. Same as it has been. Of those guys I think 10-15 of them are starters with 2-3 years. 
 

DeJean, Hicks, Bullock, Nubin, Bullard, Bishop, Brade, Kinchens, Oladapo, Williams, Green and Demerson. 
 

Then you got the other haul of players who could develop into quality talent; Smith, Mustapha, Logan Jr, Vaki, Proctor, Carlies and Taylor…

Difference of opinion but I think it could be a great year for safeties. 

 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, bobobonators said:

You don’t know that. We lost corner after corner last season and players kept stepping up. Players who fans viewed as not being depth going into last season. Same for the LB corps. 

 

 

Players kept stepping up?

 

I mean, yeah. But it showed up. How did the DBs look against the Chiefs? The LBs? 

 

We weren't the same defense as we'd been in the first 6 - 8 games, we just weren't.

[Chaos]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Players kept stepping up?

 

I mean, yeah. But it showed up. How did the DBs look against the Chiefs? The LBs? 

 

We weren't the same defense as we'd been in the first 6 - 8 games, we just weren't.

Bills defense was a bit disappointing the entire season.  Four of their worst efforts were in the first 9 weeks.  Patriots, Broncos (12 men on the field being the seasons low point), Jaguars, Bengals games. 

The defense did let the team down in the playoffs as well. But that was not a new thing. 

[OldTimer1960]

14 hours ago, BBFL said:

Absolutely loaded with talent at Safety this year. 
 

CB I think falls out of the range talent wise to be picking at 60 but you never know. Pretty top heavy and I feel it thins out between the middle of round 2 to round 5. 
 

Might have to target one of those Penn State boys, all 3; Dixon, Hardy & King, have talent. King probably goes in the 3rd IMO and Hardy the last of that trio purely down to size. 
 

Oregon’s Jackson is intriguing, big body who uses him frame well to contest catches; only problem is he has a tendency to hang on and grab the matchup he’s guarding. Needs some refinement there. 
 

Jarrian Jones and Cam Hart are two CBS I’m keeping an eye on. Look to have the tools to be decent boundary players. 
 

Only concern is why they moved Jones primarily to slot CB at FSU this year when the two prior he was solid outside… Think he’s better than Cypress and a little worse than Green who’s coming out this draft also. 
 

Do need to draft a CB and at least 1 safety though…

 

Will be interesting to see the revamp. 
 

 

I don’t think it is loaded a S.  Who do you like there that you don’t have to take in the 1st or 2nd?  Looks like a bunch of box safeties mostly after the first few.

10 hours ago, BBFL said:

 Personally, there’s at least 20-25 guys who will get drafted at that position. That, at a minimum is 10% of the draft. Same as it has been. Of those guys I think 10-15 of them are starters with 2-3 years. 
 

DeJean, Hicks, Bullock, Nubin, Bullard, Bishop, Brade, Kinchens, Oladapo, Williams, Green and Demerson. 
 

Then you got the other haul of players who could develop into quality talent; Smith, Mustapha, Logan Jr, Vaki, Proctor, Carlies and Taylor…

Difference of opinion but I think it could be a great year for safeties. 

 

Boy, I haven’t studied any film on the S group, but what I’ve read doesn’t align with “loaded class of S”.

[BBFL]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don’t think it is loaded a S.  Who do you like there that you don’t have to take in the 1st or 2nd?  Looks like a bunch of box safeties mostly after the first few.

Boy, I haven’t studied any film on the S group, but what I’ve read doesn’t align with “loaded class of S”.

Because you don’t have 1st or 2nd round grades on them means there isn’t a depth of quality potential players? Got it. 
 

Look at the history and numbers, Safety has some moderate success rate for finding a player in rounds 3-7. 
 

2018 provided 5 guys who are productive in the league between rounds 3-6.
         1 All-Pro who was a UFA
 

2019; 6 between 3-7

          1 UFA starter

 

2020; 6 between 3-7. (This draft has 3 guys half the board were clamoring over to sign this off-season)

 

2021; 4 between 3-6
 

2022; 2 between 3-7, 1 UFA

 

2023; 7 between 3-7, 1 UFA

 

 

All of those referenced have either become a starter or log a decent amount of snaps coupled with production. 
 

In terms of the “mid range talent”, this draft has some decent prospects who could become starters over the next few years. More so to me than last years draft. 
 

Obviously it would have to be a revisit down the road, so you’re more than welcome to come back to this and prove me wrong when the time comes. 
 

I don’t disagree about the home run talent. It’s minimal at that position, 2-3 guys for the first two rounds. But there is a lot of quality and experience coming out this draft at that position.