PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

PSL rep said he has absolutely zero clue how much my PSL will cost, not even a range. 

lulz.  What a 🤡 show

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

1.  Why is this taking so long to get people scheduled for this experience?

Because it takes a long time to put 60,000 people through a timeshare presentation. That's the honest truth of the matter.

 

15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

I have a feeling the Bills are realizing they overplayed their hand. 

 

I think you may be right. The Bills releasing numbers of sold club seats to the Buffalo News (their media partner) was a huge red flag to me. 

It reeked of marketing desperation. Aka, "we need to get the news out that clubs are selling fast so we create a sense urgency when season ticket holders visit the presentation." 

I also saw some red flags with how they phrased the 75% renewal rate. Losing 1 in 4 customers is already bad, but I wouldn't doubt if the real number was closer to 1 in 3 and they are bumping it to 1 in 4 by offsetting corporate purchases. This doesnt mean they wont sell out - they will - but it will be a slow burn.
 

15 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

PSL rep said he has absolutely zero clue how much my PSL will cost, not even a range. 

This is because they genuinely don't know. The Bills have not decided what the rest of the stadium will cost yet, because they were using club seats PSL's as a benchmark to price the rest of the stadium.

 

 

Edited April 10 by Einstein

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

PSL Rep called me yesterday.  Returning an email that I sent like 2 months ago (kind of ridiculous if you ask me).  He told me I won't be seen until early in the upcoming NFL regular season.  I'm a 12 year holder and have been at my current seats for like 5 years now.  

 

This leaves me with a few questions.

 

1.  Why is this taking so long to get people scheduled for this experience?

2. Club seat holders seem to get more time to pay off the 2 year 0% interest free loans.  At this pace, it looks like 300 level holders won't be seen until NEXT fall.  Are they going to get the same amount of time to pay off the PSL as the individuals that are going through the experience now?

3. The individuals doing this tour seems to be in their early to mid-20's.  Why are they not having their most experienced and senior members conducting this sales pitch?  This isn't $300 PSL's we're talking about here.

 

I have a feeling the Bills are realizing they overplayed their hand.  PSL rep said he has absolutely zero clue how much my PSL will cost, not even a range.  I'm willing to bet the team is going to have to adjust the prices for the PSL's.  If Club seats start at $15,000 per seat, people are going to pass on 100 level seats, because I'm going to imagine they were thinking people were going to pay $10k for 30-40 yard line seats.  I can't imagine these club seats are selling like hot cakes.  I really can't imagine that being the case.  Obviously people are buying them, but not at the expectation as they realized.  

 

The issue with club seats are in this area, the people that wanted to buy these seats would have already bought them.  It's going to be rare to see someone come in and just fork out $30k for 2 entry level club seats.

I went through yesterday and posted some of the the things learned up thread. The club seats will almost certainly sell out. They have sold out of the $50k Founders Club Seats (450 of them). There are 5500 seats in the East Club which is the equivalent of the sideline clubs now. There are currently about 8500 seats that are similar. They have the new club which is lower level between the 40’s and that’s the $15k. Those aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products. They won’t have trouble with those.

 

We waited on locations within the East Club hoping that the PSL will drop as you move away from midfield. They didn’t have locations for us outside of the 20’s yet so that may in fact be the plan. They did not have the pricing for any other PSLs yet. I’m sure that there are models that are nimble to hit revenue targets. So far though, they’re absolutely on schedule which is good for those that haven’t come up yet.

 

In terms of the reps being in their mid 20’s, that’s who sells sports tickets. It’s an entry level sales job where you can make good money before transitioning to a more lucrative sales career (insurance, medical, tech, etc). 
 

I’m not sure about the interest free period. I heard 3 years with 20% down. The next payment was to be due in June. 
 

In regards to the timing they are spending about 45 minutes per group. There were 2 other groups in there with us at the same time. I believe that the 3 of us were staggered 15 minutes apart (like a tee time). They want each group to spend some time with the model understanding it before you go into locations.

 

Hope that helps!!

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Because ECSC doesn’t set the prices. Or decide how to sell them.

Thats all the Bills.

 

The Bills are trying to maximize PSL value so the fans pay for as much of the stadium as possible.

 

Billionaires don’t pay. Average Jane’s and Joe’s working for $22 per hour pay.

 

And that’s okay, because other teams do it (or at least that’s the argument from other fans defending it).

 

Of course $22.00 an hour people aren't buying PSL's.  That is about $44,000 per year and the poverty threshold is $30,000 and below.

So yes, families that are just $14,000 above poverty line and can't afford PSL's is kinda one of those "goes without saying" types of things.

Edited April 10 by Royale with Cheese

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Of course $22.00 an hour people aren't buying PSL's.  That is about $44,000 per year and the poverty threshold is $30,000 and below.

So yes, families that are just $14,000 above poverty line and can't afford PSL's is kinda one of those "goes without saying" types of things.

Considering the per capita income of Buffalo is $29k and the median combined family income in Buffalo is $46k per year...

It would downright shock me if the median family income of CURRENT season ticket holders was much over $50k. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

We have a neighbor who is a well known architect. He was at our place helping us and noticed all the Bills stuff in the basement. He said his wife was going for a beach trip with her friends, but he’s not a big beach lover. Instead he was going to Buffalo for a tour of  WNY architecture. This guy could go anywhere and do anything, and this was a dream trip for him. 

 

The next day he sends me a pic of wings and beer from WNY. I remind him he’s got to try the pizza, and 30 seconds later I get the pic of his pizza. His architecture tour turned into a food and architecture tour.  If you live there it’s easy to take for granted. 

Hey Augie…. I was nowhere near WNY last week. I think you’ve got an imposter on your hands. 😉

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Considering the per capita income of Buffalo is $29k and the median combined family income in Buffalo is $46k per year...

It would downright shock me if the median family income of CURRENT season ticket holders was much over $50k. 

 

You would downright be shocked if the current season ticket holders was much more than $50,000?

 

I would be downright shocked if it was more than 5% of season ticket holders around total income at $50,000.  That is roughly $3,200 take home pay a month WITHOUT deducting insurance and other things.

 

Sorry, I'm not seeing that how that family is affording season tickets.  

[WotAGuy]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You would downright be shocked if the current season ticket holders was much more than $50,000?

 

I would be downright shocked if it was more than 5% of season ticket holders around total income at $50,000.  That is roughly $3,200 take home pay a month WITHOUT deducting insurance and other things.

 

Sorry, I'm not seeing that how that family is affording season tickets.  

Gotta keep that story going about how tragic the PSLs are for the little man. I mean, they won’t even let you use food stamps to buy a PSL. Friggin Pegula!!

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You would downright be shocked if the current season ticket holders was much more than $50,000?

 

I would be downright shocked if it was more than 5% of season ticket holders around total income at $50,000.  That is roughly $3,200 take home pay a month WITHOUT deducting insurance and other things.

 

Sorry, I'm not seeing that how that family is affording season tickets.  

Club season tickets are ~$3,000 per ticket. That is 2% of a $150k annual family income.

 

100-level season tickets are ~1,100 per ticket. That is 2.2% of a $50k annual family income.

300-level season tickets are ~$800 per ticket. That is 1.4% of a $50k annual family income.

This is not an accident. It's by design. The Bills price each level to appeal to the demographic. The % of income is near-identical but there are FAR more 300 level and 100-level seats than club seats.

So yeah, I would be shocked if the average current season ticket holder was not around the median income level of the Buffalo region. Not sure if you looked around the fans at a Bills game, but it's not 70,000 neurosurgeons, corporate executives and scientists.
 

PS, there is also a reason why season ticket renewal date is March 15th (hint).

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

So yeah, I would be shocked if the average current season ticket holder was not around the median income level of the Buffalo region. Not sure if you looked around the fans at a Bills game, but it's not 70,000 neurosurgeons, corporate executives and scientists.
 

 

The guy that fell into The Pit and flipped off the police may have been a neurosurgeon.   The guy that's been throwing the dildos onto the field in the past was probably a urologist.  

 

 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The guy that fell into The Pit and flipped off the police may have been a neurosurgeon.   The guy that's been throwing the dildos onto the field in the past was probably a urologist.  

 

This guy is the President of a hedge fund, of course.

Edited April 10 by Einstein

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

The guy that fell into The Pit and flipped off the police may have been a neurosurgeon.   The guy that's been throwing the dildos onto the field in the past was probably a urologist.  

 

 

Lol, fun fact. The ***** guy is a waiter at Giancarlo’s!! I might be his biggest fan 😂😂. I got his autograph 😂😂.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, fun fact. The ***** guy is a waiter at Giancarlo’s!! I might be his biggest fan 😂😂. I got his autograph 😂😂.

 

LOL  Is he banned from going to games now?  

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL  Is he banned from going to games now?  

 

 

He is but still goes all of the time he said. 
 

They used to have these little cards on the tables there with like a bio of your server. It said, “I was once featured in a Barstool Documentary.” I asked him about it. It was invigorating. Lol, I had him sign the card. Now every time that I’m in there I make him tell the story to whoever I’m with. My boss was in town a couple of months ago and Austin (that’s his name) told the story to him. His takeaway was that I’m an idiot. He’s a Pats fan. My girlfriend was in there with a couple friends a few weeks ago and told him that I’m his biggest fan 😂😂. 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is but still goes all of the time he said. 
 

They used to have these little cards on the tables there with like a bio of your server. It said, “I was once featured in a Barstool Documentary.” I asked him about it. It was invigorating. Lol, I had him sign the card. Now every time that I’m in there I make him tell the story to whoever I’m with. My boss was in town a couple of months ago and Austin (that’s his name) told the story to him. His takeaway was that I’m an idiot. He’s a Pats fan. My girlfriend was in there with a couple friends a few weeks ago and told him that I’m his biggest fan 😂😂. 

 

I always wondered how teams would even begin attempting to enforce a ban. How would you identify a banned person out of 70k?

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I always wondered how teams would even begin attempting to enforce a ban. How would you identify a banned person out of 70k?

Yeah, it’s not realistic and kind of stupid. He just doesn’t buy the tickets in his name. There isn’t like some FBI software to identify you or anything though. He said that he goes all of the time. I think he’s not supposed to go to any NFL stadiums but don’t remember. 
 

The Bills probably don’t really care either. They had to issue the “ceremonial ban” to discourage others from being so creative. 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He is but still goes all of the time he said. 
 

They used to have these little cards on the tables there with like a bio of your server. It said, “I was once featured in a Barstool Documentary.” I asked him about it. It was invigorating. Lol, I had him sign the card. Now every time that I’m in there I make him tell the story to whoever I’m with. My boss was in town a couple of months ago and Austin (that’s his name) told the story to him. His takeaway was that I’m an idiot. He’s a Pats fan. My girlfriend was in there with a couple friends a few weeks ago and told him that I’m his biggest fan 😂😂. 

 

LOL   Next time I'm in Buffalo I'll have to go there and see if he'll ante up with the tales of wonder and astonishment.  

 

And yeah, it's easy to get back in, they just won't let you buy season tickets, right?  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Club season tickets are ~$3,000 per ticket. That is 2% of a $150k annual family income.

 

100-level season tickets are ~1,100 per ticket. That is 2.2% of a $50k annual family income.

300-level season tickets are ~$800 per ticket. That is 1.4% of a $50k annual family income.

This is not an accident. It's by design. The Bills price each level to appeal to the demographic. The % of income is near-identical but there are FAR more 300 level and 100-level seats than club seats.

So yeah, I would be shocked if the average current season ticket holder was not around the median income level of the Buffalo region. Not sure if you looked around the fans at a Bills game, but it's not 70,000 neurosurgeons, corporate executives and scientists.
 

PS, there is also a reason why season ticket renewal date is March 15th (hint).

 

The take home pay of someone around $50,000 is roughly $3,300.  $1,100 for a ticket is 1/3 of their monthly take home pay.  

 

Yes, I know its not full of doctors and executives.  I am not a doctor or executive and sit in the 1st row in every game I can attend.  The people I sit next to aren’t doctors and executives either.

[QCity]

22 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I always wondered how teams would even begin attempting to enforce a ban. How would you identify a banned person out of 70k?

 

I don't want to derail the thread with this, but for anyone interested search what James Dolan is doing with facial recognition at Knicks and Rangers games. It's lunacy.

[WotAGuy]

55 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The take home pay of someone around $50,000 is roughly $3,300.  $1,100 for a ticket is 1/3 of their monthly take home pay.  

 

Yes, I know its not full of doctors and executives.  I am not a doctor or executive and sit in the 1st row in every game I can attend.  The people I sit next to aren’t doctors and executives either.

Notice that the discussion has been moved from people earning $22/hr buying PSLs to people making $50k a year buying current season tickets. This is how Einstein operates.