PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s what we have now but by the goal line (so significantly less). That’s where we are leaning but $20k each is steep. I was hoping if we gave up some yardage that would be $10k-$15k. I haven’t heard that though. Heat and covered are so important to us though that we may stretch.

$40,000 for two seats out of the rain? Yikes!

[cdl 716]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s what we have now but by the goal line (so significantly less). That’s where we are leaning but $20k each is steep. I was hoping if we gave up some yardage that would be $10k-$15k. I haven’t heard that though. Heat and covered are so important to us though that we may stretch.

Curious how your appointment goes Kirby.  I picked up a couple seats in C227 last week and am wondering what they have left now.  The price was steep but I look at as I’ll probably have season tickets for years and if you spread the PSL cost over 20-30 years it makes it a little more palatable.  I’m also at a point in my life/career where I don’t really worry about the payments and they’ll be finished at the end of the first season in the new stadium.  As others have said, this is how the NFL owners do business now.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

$40,000 for two seats out of the rain? Yikes!

Something something dome.

[Captain Caveman]

On 4/3/2024 at 9:24 PM, npeartisgod said:

Why are folks acting like pub financing is new or unique? 
 

2004: In April, the Cowboys announced plans to build a $650 million stadium at Fair Park in Dallas. The deal required $425 million in public financing from a 3% hotel-occupancy tax and a 6% car-rental tax.

 

One can undsrstand that it is not unique or new and also commonly understood as very bad for the general public.

 

I love the Bills, and I'm glad they are staying here with a new stadium, my practical side also realizes that this is absolutely a losing proposition for NY taxpayers.

[SoCal Deek]

I have to admit that I don’t understand how all of this PSL stuff works. What exactly are you buying and how does it work? For example:

 

Does the cost of the PSL include the cost of the game/event ticket? And if not, I assume the actual ticket prices will increase over time? 

 

Does a PSL guarantee first right of refusal on ANY event held in the stadium?

 

Is the PSL permanent or does it just cover a specific span of years? In other words, does it expire? 

 

Is the PSL transferable to your family/heirs? 
 

Does the PSL include a free parking pass? 

Edited April 9 by SoCal Deek

[Just Jack]

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have to admit that I don’t understand how all of this PSL stuff works. What exactly are you buying and how does it work? For example:

 

Does the cost of the PSL include the cost of the game/event ticket? And if not, I assume the actual ticket prices will increase over time? 

 

Does a PSL guarantee first right of refusal on ANY event held in the stadium?

 

Is the PSL permanent or does it just cover a specific span of years? In other words, does it expire? 

 

Is the PSL transferable to your family/heirs? 
 

Does the PSL include a free parking pass? 

 

No, tickets are extra.  Ticket prices should increase over time, I can 't imagine they would be locked in for 30 years like the PSL.  

 

Typically, yes, at least that's the way it has been with our current club seats.  Certain events, like the Taylor Swift tour, I don't believe for those stadiums that PSL holders got first dibs.  

 

The current term being sold is 30 years, which is the lease for the new stadium.  Possibly taking into account that at the end of 30 years, the decision will have to be made to either keep the stadium and extend PSL's or build a new stadium with new PSL's.  

 

PSL's can be transferred.  

 

I believe I saw in @Mr Info documents that he shared that he can purchase a parking pass separately.  

[Mr Info]

2 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

I believe I saw in @Mr Info documents that he shared that he can purchase a parking pass separately.  

True, dat. Club seat PSL agreement did not include parking passes but stated they could be purchased separately.

[WotAGuy]

45 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have to admit that I don’t understand how all of this PSL stuff works. What exactly are you buying and how does it work? For example:

 

Does the cost of the PSL include the cost of the game/event ticket? And if not, I assume the actual ticket prices will increase over time? 

 

Does a PSL guarantee first right of refusal on ANY event held in the stadium?

 

Is the PSL permanent or does it just cover a specific span of years? In other words, does it expire? 

 

Is the PSL transferable to your family/heirs? 
 

Does the PSL include a free parking pass? 

 

Ironically, it’s a lot like a timeshare….

[Kirby Jackson]

Okay so I have some updates. The $50k Founders Seats are sold out. The East Club goes end zone to end zone. They have only released the sections between the 20’s so far. They’re selling fast. Still the $20k per seat there. I’m hoping that as you get closer to the end zone those PSLs drop so we did not commit yet. If they keep it there we will have a decision to make but I suspect that those will be lower in price which is why they didn’t yet release them. That’s what we are banking on anyways. Apparently we keep our place in line when that happens.

 

The lower level clubs looked pretty cool but you can’t see the field from the club. You watch the teams though as they go out. They aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products ($15k PSL here). 64% of the stadium will be covered. 

Edited April 9 by Kirby Jackson

[nucci]

19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Okay so I have some updates. The $50k Founders Seats are sold out. The East Club goes end zone to end zone. They have only released the sections between the 20’s so far. They’re selling fast. Still the $20k per seat there. I’m hoping that as you get closer to the end zone those PSLs drop so we did not commit yet. If they keep it there we will have a decision to make but I suspect that those will be lower in price which is why they didn’t get release them. That’s what we are banking on anyways. Apparently we keep our place in line when that happens.

 

The lower level clubs looked pretty cool but you can’t see the field from the club. You watch the teams though as they go out. They aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products ($15k PSL here). 64% of the stadium will be covered. 

thanks for info. Why have a club located where you can't see the field?

Edited April 9 by nucci

[Virgil]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Okay so I have some updates. The $50k Founders Seats are sold out. The East Club goes end zone to end zone. They have only released the sections between the 20’s so far. They’re selling fast. Still the $20k per seat there. I’m hoping that as you get closer to the end zone those PSLs drop so we did not commit yet. If they keep it there we will have a decision to make but I suspect that those will be lower in price which is why they didn’t get release them. That’s what we are banking on anyways. Apparently we keep our place in line when that happens.

 

The lower level clubs looked pretty cool but you can’t see the field from the club. You watch the teams though as they go out. They aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products ($15k PSL here). 64% of the stadium will be covered. 

 

Are the seats in the lower bowl, the first 30 rows from the field, are those part of the new club seats that cost 20k per?

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

thanks for info. Why have a club located where you can't see the field?

You can from the seats just not from the club. It’s like it is now. The new clubs are glass on both sides so that you can watch the game if you’re sitting at a table. They looked nice.

Just now, Virgil said:

 

Are the seats in the lower bowl, the first 30 rows from the field, are those part of the new club seats that cost 20k per?

The lower bowl club is between the. 40’s it looked like and $15k per. Not sure of the row numbers. The lower bowl won’t be covered but most of the rest of the stadium will be.

[Einstein]

 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

They’re selling fast. 

 

Just teasing, but that is funny that they (i'm sure 'casually') told you that. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The lower level clubs looked pretty cool but you can’t see the field from the club. You watch the teams though as they go out. They aren’t covered or heated but include food and Pepsi products ($15k PSL here). 64% of the stadium will be covered. 

If it isn't heated or covered, why can't you see the field? What is the obstruction? And what is the benefit? 

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You can from the seats just not from the club. It’s like it is now.

Ahh.

So the seats are just normal outdoor seats (such as rows 1-10 right now at Rich) on the sideline? 

They are only "club" because you can go inside to get food ... but no heat, or covering.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Just teasing, but that is funny that they (i'm sure 'casually') told you that. 

 

 

If it isn't heated or covered, why can't you see the field? What is the obstruction? And what is the benefit? 

Ahh.

So the seats are just normal outdoor seats (such as rows 1-10 right now at Rich) on the sideline? 

They are only "club" because you can go inside to get food ... but no heat, or covering.

The “they’re selling fast” should be prefaced by there are about 5,500 seats in the East Club. That’s the equivalent of the sideline clubs now. By my math there are currently about 8,500 sideline club seats. There are 450 Founders Club seats I think that they said. They’re banking on people electing better locations vs. covered and heated.

Edited April 9 by Kirby Jackson

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have to admit that I don’t understand how all of this PSL stuff works. What exactly are you buying and how does it work? 

 

You're buying air. 

I say that non-nefariously. There is simply no intrinsic value. It is a liability with guaranteed cost of more liabilities in the future. 
 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Does the cost of the PSL include the cost of the game/event ticket?

No. You bought air. That is all.


 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

And if not, I assume the actual ticket prices will increase over time? 

 

Of course.

That's the plan.

When someone invests $50,000 in PSLs, the organization is aware that PSL owners will not forfeit their sunk cost by failing to purchase season tickets, as not doing so would mean losing the initial expenditure. Therefore, the organization knows they can raise ticket prices because the PSL holders are financially committed and that enables the organization to significantly increase ticket pricing because you're "stuck".

You either pay the increasing prices every year or you default and lose your money.

 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Does a PSL guarantee first right of refusal on ANY event held in the stadium?

Of course not.

Remember, you bought air. That is all.

To be fair to PSE, this isn't really the Bills fault. Any event that you would actually want to go to (think big music acts), the organizer has a contract that they control all tickets. So it's out of the Bills hands. You might be able to get a monster truck rally or something like that though.

For any events where they do throw PSL owners are a bone (meaning they offer to sell you tickets at full retail price just like the general public), they dont guarantee that you will have YOUR seats you paid for with the PSL.

 

 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Is the PSL permanent or does it just cover a specific span of years? In other words, does it expire? 

 

30 years.



Which means if the team goes through another 20 year drought, you are obligated to continue paying the ever increasing season ticket prices. No matter what. Even if the team is on year 7 of Dick Jauron and we just went 7-10 for the 5th straight season, and they refuses to fire him, and they raise season ticket prices 20% ... you're on the hook to buy them.
 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

 

Is the PSL transferable to your family/heirs? 

 

Yes.

 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

 

Does the PSL include a free parking pass? 

 

As long as you understand going into the process that you are purchasing air, then all is fine.

 

Edited April 9 by Einstein

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You're buying air. 

I say that non-nefariously. There is simply no intrinsic value. It is a liability with guaranteed cost of more liabilities in the future. 
 

No. You bought air. That is all.


 

 

Of course.

That's the plan.

When someone invests $50,000 in PSLs, the organization is aware that they will not forfeit their sunk cost by failing to purchase season tickets, as not doing so would mean losing the initial expenditure. Therefore, the organization knows they can raise ticket prices because the PSL holders are financially committed and that enables the organization to significantly increase ticket pricing because you're "stuck".

You either pay the increasing prices every year or you default and lose your money.

 

Of course not.

Remember, you bought air. That is all.

To be fair to PSE, this isn't really the Bills fault. Any event that you would actually want to go to (think big music acts), the organizer has a contract that they control all tickets. So it's out of the Bills hands. You might be able to get a monster truck rally or something like that though.

For any events where they do throw PSL owners are a bone (meaning they offer to sell you tickets at full retail price just like the general public), they dont guarantee that you will have YOUR seats you paid for with the PSL.

 

 

 

30 years.



Which means if the team goes through another 20 year drought, you are obligated to continue paying the ever increasing season ticket prices. No matter what. Even if the team is on year 7 of Dick Jauron and refuses to fire him.
 

 

Yes.

 

 

As long as you understand going into the process that you are purchasing air, then all is fine.

 

Can’t disagree with any of this. 

[SoCal Deek]

So if these are being sold for a 30 year lifespan and there are 10 home games a year (300 total games) then a $20,000 PSL essentially raises your ticket price by $75.00 per game. 

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

You're buying air. 
 

Well, to be completely accurate, he’s also buying tiny wieners on sticks and soft pretzels.  Maybe a beef on weck. And a Pepsi. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

So if these are being sold for a 30 year lifespan and there are 10 home games a year (300 total games) then a $20,000 PSL essentially raises your ticket price by $75.00 per game. 

Basically, and the ticket prices in the new stadium are roughly double what they are now for these same seats. I think that the face value of my seats now are about $300 a game. In the new stadium they are like $550 I think (plus the license fee). 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Basically, and the ticket prices in the new stadium are roughly double what they are now for these same seats. I think that the face value of my seats now are about $300 a game. In the new stadium they are like $550 I think (plus the license fee). 

I’m going to assume you’re correct, but the cost of seats in the current stadium isn’t really relevant. As I see it the PSL is way of hiding the actual ticket cost while at the same time getting a long term commitment upfront. A word to the wise: Your life is going to change drastically over the span of thirty years! Getting effectively married to a plastic seat with built in cup holders may not be the wisest commitment.