PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Just Jack]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The marketing mistake the Bills made was linking the new prices to the new stadium. They should’ve been raising prices throughout the years so the sticker shock wouldn’t have been so immediate. I’m was on the Board of an HOA a few years back and I would regularly advocate for raising the monthly dues to keep up with inflation. The majority of the Board wanted to delay things so they’d let the deficit pile up and hit all the residents with a significant increase every three or four years. That increase was predictably followed by a lot of teeth gnashing and ire cast at the Board for mismanagement. 

 

I've had club seats since 2004, I'd have to look up how much I was paying back then for an exact number, but I feel my price has almost doubled since I got them.  It's still below what is being reported for the new stadium.  I'm pretty sure I will not be able to afford what they will call "equal" seats since I'm at the top end of what I'm comfortable paying currently.  Still waiting on my invite to the show. 

[papazoid]

When the new stadium opens in the fall of 2026, those in attendance may notice that the seating concourse is a little steeper than the current stadium. This is due to the new seating setup at the new Highmark being angled at 34 degrees, compared to the current 28-degree design the Bills use. 

 

With the new design, it brings fans closer to the game. Literally. The Bills say that fans who sit in the last row of the general concourse will be 54 feet closer to the field than they are at the current stadium. (which makes sense because there are less seats. where they grow the footprint is wider concourses outside the viewing area)

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-details/71-50e82fd3-1bf9-4adc-9592-3452bdc7f84d

 

(i saw another article that said the new stadium will be 50 feet higher)

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-new-stadium-size-plans-seats-plans-highmark-stadium#:~:text=While the new stadium - expected to open,with deeper and higher seats (50 feet higher).

 

 

Edited April 7 by papazoid

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

When the new stadium opens in the fall of 2026, those in attendance may notice that the seating concourse is a little steeper than the current stadium. This is due to the new seating setup at the new Highmark being angled at 34 degrees, compared to the current 28-degree design the Bills use. 

 

With the new design, it brings fans closer to the game. Literally. The Bills say that fans who sit in the last row of the general concourse will be 54 feet closer to the field than they are at the current stadium. (which makes sense because there are less seats. where they grow the footprint is wider concourses outside the viewing area)

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-details/71-50e82fd3-1bf9-4adc-9592-3452bdc7f84d

The stadium is taller because of all the piles of money the Pegulas are stacking up in the new stadium. 

[Just Jack]

49 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Just FYI - You have not paid PSL’s for your current seats. The Bills do not have PSL’s at the current stadium. Not in the clubs or anywhere else.

 

You’ve repeated this misinformation so many times in this thread, despite being told that it’s not true, that I called the Bills ticket office last week to ask, and they confirmed that no-one has ever paid a PSL at the current stadium.

 

 

The have Club Seat Licenses that we pay every year.  Same animal, different name.  

 

EDIT: here's mine 

Edited April 7 by Just Jack

[Einstein]

45 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

The have Club Seat Licenses that we pay every year.  Same animal, different name.  

 

They’re very different. Apples and oranges.

 

The club seat is essentially a ticket fee. They are a per year charge (PSL’s are a 30 year charge with a one-time fee) and the club seats can be cancelled at any time (PSL’s can’t) without paying any charge for a further 3 years. They also can’t be sold (PSL’s can), and there is no double taxation (PSL’s do).

 

Theyre completely different animals.

Really the only way they are similar is they cost money.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Einstein

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The marketing mistake the Bills have made in this shameful timeshare style sales process.

 

I’ve dug into the history of the past 8 or so stadiums built, and as far as my research has lead me, no other teams have done this. It’s completely out of left field.

 

They created no hype, spent zero time getting people excited, and then chose the absolute worst sales process imaginable, with the highest negative connotations. This is a textbook case of what NOT to do.

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

[Just Jack]

5 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

I haven't found that answer, but here is an article about their stadium the first few years after opening and PSL's/ticket sales.  

 

How The Dallas Cowboys Lost The Home-Field Advantage (texasobserver.org)

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

Not that ive seen. Edit; The Falcons had a PSL preview center too, but I don’t know if it was required or just a perk.

 

I have traced back the announcements of the previous decade of new stadiums that I could find, and when the PSL’s were announced, nearly all of them had full write-ups of exactly what was included, how much they would cost in various parts of the stadiums, etc.

This was in addition to releasing dozens of renderings and introducing features and advertising benefits of the new stadium.

 

None that I can find have done this shut-lips, timeshare style presentation, with a purposeful restriction of renderings.

 

The Bills are breaking the mold with this process.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Einstein

[Just Jack]

33 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Any indications that Legends has done this shameful practice elsewhere previously?  Or is their first attempt at running the show like they are for the Bills?

 

Legends did sell for the 49ers, but not sure if they did an experience center.  They are also signed up to sell for the new Washington stadium. And the Oakland A's new stadium in Las Vegas. Legends team up with A’s on new ballpark - Coliseum (coliseum-online.com)

 

EDIT: Legends did sell for the Falcons... AMBSE to Expand Relationship With Legends (atlantafalcons.com)

 

 

The Falcons did have a center, and the Titans will have a center...

 

Falcons... New Stadium Reserve Seat PSL Sales to Start (atlantafalcons.com)

Quote

All current season ticket holders will have the first opportunity to visit the state-of-the-art new stadium preview center and meet with a dedicated sales consultant to learn more about the seat selection process.  Fans who are not current season ticket holders will have the opportunity to purchase season tickets for the new stadium by joining the waitlist.

 

Titans... Titans President and CEO Burke Nihill Discusses What's Next for New Stadium, Which is Expected to Open in 2027 (tennesseetitans.com)

Quote

Nihill said a PSL Experience Center will be built in Germantown, and it's expected to open in March 2024. Fans will have a technology experience where they'll be able to see what their seats would look like, and it's where the PSL transactions will take place.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Just Jack

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The marketing mistake the Bills have made in this shameful timeshare style sales process.

 

I’ve dug into the history of the past 8 or so stadiums built, and as far as my research has lead me, no other teams have done this. It’s completely out of left field.

 

They created no hype, spent zero time getting people excited, and then chose the absolute worst sales process imaginable, with the highest negative connotations. This is a textbook case of what NOT to do.

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Not that i’ve seen.

 

I have traced back the announcements of the previous decade of new stadiums, and when the PSL’s were announced, nearly all of them had full write-ups of exactly what was included, how much they would cost in various parts of the stadiums, etc.

This was in addition to releasing dozens of renderings and introducing features and advertising benefits of the new stadium.

 

None that I can find have done this shut-lips, timeshare style presentation, with a purposeful restriction of renderings.

 

The Bills are breaking the mold with this process.

Do you have season club seats?

[Mr Info]

32 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

I have posted this elsewhere but some may have missed it due to the length of this thread. My Bills Experience was on Tuesday, March 19.

 

i was a bit surprised at the PSL price and was not ready to commit at that time but requested the PSL agreement doc from my rep. She sent it a couple days later and I reviewed it. Fortunately, the PSL expense fit in my entertainment budget so called my rep back to reserve club seats. Unfortunately, the seats that were shown during my experience were no longer available so selected 2 others that my rep showed in a virtual view. 

 

I had 2 reps during my presentation and both were nice and cordial and I never felt any pressure like a ‘time share’ presentation would entail.

 

I am attaching a link to the PSL Agreement that I received and signed. I have whited out any personal info. 

 

Some on this thread have such animosity toward the Bills, the owner, and the PSL process. If PSLs are not for you, then I hope you are able to secure individual game tix to those games you would like to attend in 2026.
 

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:f4c5e14f-8131-435b-8867-a28937564e2f

[Just Jack]

18 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Do you have season club seats?

 

I have the feeling that several people that post regularly in this thread do not have seasons of any type, and just like to argue.  

[Einstein]

42 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Do you have season club seats?

 

Not anymore.

Moved from Jim Kelly Club to M&T club (all exclusive with buffet)

[Mike in Horseheads]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not anymore.

Moved from Jim Kelly Club to M&T club (all exclusive with buffet)

So if you don't have them then why are you on this constant crusade of bitchin about the process?

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

So if you don't have them then why are you on this constant crusade of bitchin about the process?

 

Not sure if you know this (genuinely) but PSL’s do not simply exist in the clubs. They exist in the entire stadium (including the area where I will sit).

 

That being said, I’m not “bitchin”. I am simply speaking truth to the situation. Many attempt to apply an emotion to my posts, but the truth is that I have very few feels on what I post. There are facts, there are numbers, and there is analysis based upon those facts and numbers.

 

Whoever wishes to purchase a PSL should do so. Their choice has no impact on me.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The time-share analogy has been my premise from the time these 'appointments' were first announced. At that time people had no idea what the pricing would look like. Now that some of that pricing has been revealed I'm reading conflicting opinions on here as to whether it's the price or the style of presentation that is so off-putting. 

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

[Mike in Horseheads]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not sure if you know this (genuinely) but PSL’s do not simply exist in the clubs. They exist in the entire stadium (including the area where I will sit).

 

That being said, I’m not “bitchin”. I am simply speaking truth to the situation. Many attempt to apply an emotion to my posts, but the truth is that I have very few feels on what I post. There are facts, there are numbers, and there is analysis based upon those facts and numbers.

 

Whoever wishes to purchase a PSL should do so. Their choice has no impact on me.

Yes I'm aware of the stadium being PSL everywhere.

[SoCal Deek]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes you were an early adopter of that analogy. You saw what many others couldn’t, and some still can’t, likely because you work directly in architecture and understand what is normal and what is not. You were able to understand very quickly that what the Bills are doing is not normal.

I think you pose an excellent question of whether price or presentation is the problem. While a fool and their money are soon parted, I do believe it is a mixture of price and presentation and roll-out. The team created no hype, released very little in the way of renderings, require a timeshare style presentation, and THEN expect people to pay thousands of dollars on top of it.

 

It was a poor plan.

Thanks but my analogy or perception had nothing to do with my architectural background. It came from sitting through more than a few timeshare presentations. This is a distinct style of marketing and generally not a well appreciated one. It’s known for deceptive pricing, long term commitments, high pressure appointment style meetings, and hidden additional fees. I have no idea why the Bills adopted this style. It’s not as if your typical Buffalonian is visiting Orchard Park on vacation. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks but my analogy or perception had nothing to do with my architectural background. It came from sitting through more than a few timeshare presentations. This is a distinct style of marketing and generally not a well appreciated one. It’s known for deceptive pricing, long term commitments, high pressure appointment style meetings, and hidden additional fees. I have no idea why the Bills adopted this style. It’s not as if your typical Buffalonian is visiting Orchard Park on vacation. 

 

Well said. I was just reading through some older stadium builds and found some interesting tidbits.

 

- The only stadium I could find that also had a timeshare style presentation is the Falcons. They initially were selling the club section fairly quickly and advertised that (remind you of anyone?) and then it slowed down… They ended up cutting the price of PSL’s in HALF in some sections, which angered a lot of fans who paid PSL’s at full price. 

 

- The Jets had a similar situation. They reduced the price of nearly 18,000 PSL’s (over 20% of the stadium) in half after a year of trying to sell them.

 

- Raiders reduced the price of PSL’s at their new stadium too, but to their credited, they credited people who already bought PSL’s to the new discounted price.