PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Einstein]

57 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

1965 seniority, 50 yard line

Impressive seniority. His Bills fan career will now span 3 home stadiums..

[Boatdrinks]

9 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

So over priced seats are ok? Rhetorical question obviously.

 

Here's the thing. You've got a family who's been a loyal Bills customer since the 60s, and the Bills are telling that family they may potentially lose out on their seats, because they didn't splurge for the pricier seats over time? It's wrong. 

 

 

Are they telling them that ? Your loyal customer will be offered comparable seats in the new stadium. As was pointed out in this thread , they’ve only brought in 1.6% of STHs at this point. We are talking about pricier seats at this point because that is the customer the Bills have started with. Is it wrong for the Bills to begin with their highest paying customers? 

7 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

 

Agree about the bolded 100%.  It's great that you can afford it, and that you and your son enjoy the experience enough to take the price increase in stride. It's not financially hard on me. Like you I could afford it as well.  But the experience for me is not worth anywhere near the cost of the day at the Ralph.  We stopped going in person several years ago.  Now for the 1pm starts I record the game, and I have software that skips the commercials automatically on playback. So my family spends Sunday afternoons doing what we like, then we get pizza and all meet up to watch the game in 90 minutes or so while eating dinner. 

 

What I feel bad about are the fans that have managed to afford seasons for their families for years, now needing to find or get a loan for a pretty large lump sum payment that does nothing but help finance the Biils new stadium rather than the NFL, which as you say is the "biggest  sport in the world revenue wise" (it's actually 2nd behind soccer, but close), financing it.   That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.      

Why does it? They could DVR and go out for pizza like you do. Perhaps they will prefer it to going to the stadium as well. 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

now, should they have provided more renderings? Yes. Should they have provided a virtual fly through of the stadium? Yes. Could they have provided all the prices to everyone, sure. But they are apparently successful in our what they are doing and how they are doing it. Based on reports they have a 75% renewal rate. Doesn’t get much better than that for them. 

 

Not taking sides here, but official reports had only several hundred people coming through to date.  Obviously they're the high-level moneybags. 

 

It's certainly curious whether the next level of tix shares the same level of success as their stated 75%, if that's even true. 

 

What we do know is that even here many fans have expressed that they're not going to renew, many with the simple price increases but most with the PSLs and clearly notably higher prices. 

 

Here's the thing, many of the non-moneybags buy STs because they're a good deal here in Buffalo, soon to be not so good a deal. 

 

I hear what you're saying, and frankly, I don't understand all the derision and strife here among posters for what should be a simple honest discussion, that they'll sell out easily.  But more fans here even have said that they're not going to be paying PSLs and notably higher prices in the new stadium, also elsewhere.  And again, of the handful of STHs that I know, few are planning on paying those PSLs and prices, whatever they are, understanding that they'll be significantly higher than they are now.  Maybe they weren't telling the truth, who knows.  But taking them at face value ... 

 

So while I understand what you're saying, if all of those people are telling the truth, what are the odds that there are so many ready to backfill behind them that don't hold similar views?  Otherwise, where are the people that will sell the place out in STs going to come from?  

 

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I'm seriously asking here, rhetorically apparently, but maybe you know from experience.  I'm going by the prevailing winds however, which seemingly strongly suggest that they're going to have difficulties selling once they get out of the high-fallutin' moneybag sections and clubs.  

 

Many will "downgrade," I understand that, but many have also said that they're not going to downgrade (sections) if there's no heat/coverage.  

 

That's why this is so interesting and fascinating as to how it plays out.  

 

 

[BillsPride12]

8 hours ago, papazoid said:

friend of mine who sits in LOWER  BOWL  goes for his experience tomorrow (tues)

 

1965 seniority, 50 yard line

 

should have some good info in 24 hours

 

P.S. of the 25% who didn't agree to new club level  seats immediately on first offer....i bet more than half of them get seats in a less expensive area on their second chance meeting. so that initial 75% will likely go to 85-90%

Now this is an interesting piece of info.  They must be going through the process much quicker than originally anticipated as the early reports were saying it would take them this entire year just to get through people in the club seats and wouldn't get to people in the lower bowl until 2025.  I'm also very curious to see what the PSL is going to be for 50 yard line seats.  My guess is $10K 

[Kirby Jackson]

I apparently got my invite last Thursday. I didn’t see it in my email (that email address has so much spam and apparently I can’t change it with the Bills). At any rate, I’m registered for next Tuesday. I’ll report back. 

[DrBob806]

7 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

 Is it wrong for the Bills to begin with their highest paying customers? 

 

Yes. Squatters rights.

 

I'm going to be pissed if my seats get taken by someone else. My seats go back to the 70s, so maybe that enlightens you.

[richNjoisy]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I apparently got my invite last Thursday. I didn’t see it in my email (that email address has so much spam and apparently I can’t change it with the Bills). At any rate, I’m registered for next Tuesday. I’ll report back. 

Kirby could you remind us where your current seats are?

[Mr Info]

1 hour ago, DrBob806 said:

Yes. Squatters rights.

 

I'm going to be pissed if my seats get taken by someone else. My seats go back to the 70s, so maybe that enlightens you.

Just FYI. I took my time in deciding on seats and the result was my seats in the new stadium are not as good as my seats in Highmark. I was shown similar view seats but those were gone by the time I decided. That’s the way it goes when you delay.

[mrags]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not taking sides here, but official reports had only several hundred people coming through to date.  Obviously they're the high-level moneybags. 

 

It's certainly curious whether the next level of tix shares the same level of success as their stated 75%, if that's even true. 

 

What we do know is that even here many fans have expressed that they're not going to renew, many with the simple price increases but most with the PSLs and clearly notably higher prices. 

 

Here's the thing, many of the non-moneybags buy STs because they're a good deal here in Buffalo, soon to be not so good a deal. 

 

I hear what you're saying, and frankly, I don't understand all the derision and strife here among posters for what should be a simple honest discussion, that they'll sell out easily.  But more fans here even have said that they're not going to be paying PSLs and notably higher prices in the new stadium, also elsewhere.  And again, of the handful of STHs that I know, few are planning on paying those PSLs and prices, whatever they are, understanding that they'll be significantly higher than they are now.  Maybe they weren't telling the truth, who knows.  But taking them at face value ... 

 

So while I understand what you're saying, if all of those people are telling the truth, what are the odds that there are so many ready to backfill behind them that don't hold similar views?  Otherwise, where are the people that will sell the place out in STs going to come from?  

 

Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I'm seriously asking here, rhetorically apparently, but maybe you know from experience.  I'm going by the prevailing winds however, which seemingly strongly suggest that they're going to have difficulties selling once they get out of the high-fallutin' moneybag sections and clubs.  

 

Many will "downgrade," I understand that, but many have also said that they're not going to downgrade (sections) if there's no heat/coverage.  

 

That's why this is so interesting and fascinating as to how it plays out.  

 

 

Well. The new stadium holds 10k less seats. That’s 86% smaller. It’s also pretty close to the number of current season ticket holders. Then on top of it there’s currently a 7k person waiting list. So even if some of the fans back out, there’s a list in waiting. Let’s say only 50% of that list is legit with new PSLs. You’re still looking at pretty close to the same numbers of STHs as the current stadium. Let’s say more than 75% don’t opt in. Which is the number that you’re claiming based on people you know to be true. There will definitely be more people that didn’t want tickets before because they didn’t enjoy the crowds at the current stadium because they thought they were too rowdy and chaotic. I know multiple people that have told me that. It goes both ways really. 
 

They are only getting through the wealthier fans, and business as this point. The PSLs and ticket prices are definitely much higher. Let’s wait and see what the rest of the ticket prices and PSLs are for the common areas of the stadium before people who claim they will never pay for the PSL, actually see the numbers and decide from there. As some have mentioned before, and based on the survey, there were plenty of seats with 1-2k PSLs and 1-2k per ticket. Those numbers are not bad at all and easily affordable to just about anyone that doesn’t flip burgers for a living. 

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I apparently got my invite last Thursday. I didn’t see it in my email (that email address has so much spam and apparently I can’t change it with the Bills). At any rate, I’m registered for next Tuesday. I’ll report back. 

What section are you in again?

17 minutes ago, richNjoisy said:

Kirby could you remind us where your current seats are?

Damn 

[Virgil]

12 hours ago, papazoid said:

friend of mine who sits in LOWER  BOWL  goes for his experience tomorrow (tues)

 

1965 seniority, 50 yard line

 

should have some good info in 24 hours

 

P.S. of the 25% who didn't agree to new club level  seats immediately on first offer....i bet more than half of them get seats in a less expensive area on their second chance meeting. so that initial 75% will likely go to 85-90%

Interesting.  I thought I read a few times on here that non-club seats weren’t getting the presentation until next year. 
 

Or is this because his current seats are going to be considered club in the new stadium?

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Interesting.  I thought I read a few times on here that non-club seats weren’t getting the presentation until next year. 
 

Or is this because his current seats are going to be considered club in the new stadium?

That could be it. They are giving them the option at clubs. We’ll see what the prices are and the options he gets 

[Kirby Jackson]

56 minutes ago, mrags said:

What section are you in again?

I’m in 237. 

1 hour ago, richNjoisy said:

Kirby could you remind us where your current seats are?

237

[Griecoa10]

16 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Interesting.  I thought I read a few times on here that non-club seats weren’t getting the presentation until next year. 
 

Or is this because his current seats are going to be considered club in the new stadium?

That's what I'm guessing.  I'm in 215 (pepsi club towards the goal line) and haven't gotten invite yet.  Assuming they're including the 40-40 yard line 100 folks as their current seats will be clubs in the new stadium.  So they'll give everyone in those spots first right of refusal (which I bet there will be a lot!)

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m in 237. 

237

Hmmm. I just moved to 237. I should be getting the call soon then. Interested to see your options and prices and if they are too rich for my blood I’ll just wait until they were going to call me for being in 229

Edited April 2 by mrags

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

Now this is an interesting piece of info.  They must be going through the process much quicker than originally anticipated as the early reports were saying it would take them this entire year just to get through people in the club seats and wouldn't get to people in the lower bowl until 2025.  I'm also very curious to see what the PSL is going to be for 50 yard line seats.  My guess is $10K 

 

According to their survey, they had the Lower Bowl between the '40s, no heat or coverage obviously, at $9k and the seat prices at $2,280, or just under $300/game.  It seems as if there's been price inflation since they released their survey about two years ago, so $10k sounds about right.  It's a good guess that the tix are up over $300/game now too.  

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

They are only getting through the wealthier fans, and business as this point. The PSLs and ticket prices are definitely much higher. Let’s wait and see what the rest of the ticket prices and PSLs are for the common areas of the stadium before people who claim they will never pay for the PSL, actually see the numbers and decide from there. As some have mentioned before, and based on the survey, there were plenty of seats with 1-2k PSLs and 1-2k per ticket. Those numbers are not bad at all and easily affordable to just about anyone that doesn’t flip burgers for a living. 

What section are you in again?

Damn 

 

Yeah, and it seems to be getting more interesting now.  

 

As to people downgrading, there have been a ton of comments about people saying that they're not downgrading for more money.  Again, simply sharing what we're reading, who knows, could all be smoke, but I'm not as convinced as you are that they'll sell out so easily.  

 

Good thing they're doing this now while Allen's at the top of his game.  LOL  

 

 

[mrags]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, and it seems to be getting more interesting now.  

 

As to people downgrading, there have been a ton of comments about people saying that they're not downgrading for more money.  Again, simply sharing what we're reading, who knows, could all be smoke, but I'm not as convinced as you are that they'll sell out so easily.  

 

Good thing they're doing this now while Allen's at the top of his game.  LOL  

 

 

Well. “Downgrading” is a bit off at this point. Because right now those seats are considered clubs. With better amenities. Vs regular 100 level seats. Maybe they don’t get as good of a view, but that doesn’t mean they are “downgrading” right now they would be majorly upgrading with club options. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yeah, and it seems to be getting more interesting now.  

 

As to people downgrading, there have been a ton of comments about people saying that they're not downgrading for more money.  Again, simply sharing what we're reading, who knows, could all be smoke, but I'm not as convinced as you are that they'll sell out so easily.  

Keep in mind, according to the Bills, 1 in 4 aren't renewing. That's pretty bad for most businesses to lose a quarter of your customers. And if I had to guess, those numbers are a bit fudged. They likely include those who say they will renew, but at a lower package. Meaning, they have to be called back in in a few months. Will they *actually* renew at that lower package? hmm, maybe not. 

The real number, with non-fudged numbers, could be 1 in 3 fans not renewing for all we know. 

Even using the Bills numbers, they are down over 20 basis points from last year in renewals.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Keep in mind, according to the Bills, 1 in 4 aren't renewing. That's pretty bad for most businesses to lose a quarter of your customers. And if I had to guess, those numbers are a bit fudged. They likely include those who say they will renew, but at a lower package. Meaning, they have to be called back in in a few months. Will they *actually* renew at that lower package? hmm, maybe not. 

The real number, with non-fudged numbers, could be 1 in 3 fans not renewing for all we know. 

Even using the Bills numbers, they are down over 20 basis points from last year in renewals.

Yup. And add in the fact that the new stadium has 10k less seats and there’s a 7k person waiting list. Got ya 

[PBF81]

Just now, mrags said:

Well. “Downgrading” is a bit off at this point. Because right now those seats are considered clubs. With better amenities. Vs regular 100 level seats. Maybe they don’t get as good of a view, but that doesn’t mean they are “downgrading” right now they would be majorly upgrading with club options. 

 

I was more referring to people in the clubs or lower level that would pay the same but have to move to the uppers for example.  

 

In short, what does what someone is paying now, get them in the new arena.  

 

Of the relatively small number of people that I know, most are average Bills fans, none live elsewhere and fly in regularly for games for example.  LOL  They live in the region, have moderate incomes, etc.  From what they're told me, and what a bunch of people have said here over the past year or two, is that they're at the limits of what they're willing to pay.  They swallow the annual price increases with some "kicking of the dog," but they've said that if the prices go up much more they're out.  Those are the ones that I'm talking about.  

 

What are face value for lower level sideline tix right now what, $200/game?  IDK, seriously asking.  So say $1,600 per seat.  That amount may get them mezzanine level corners or lower level end-zones, but according to them they're not willing to pay that much for those seats.  On top of that there's the approx. $3-5k PSL which is more than they've told me they're willing to pay.  

 

Maybe the percentage of people that I know with STs aren't a good cross section, who knows.  As stated, it is definitely going to get interesting.  I see some consternation and resentment down the road.  

 

I'm so glad that I only do secondary market tix anymore.  LOL