PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Mr Info]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I think I remember that @Mr Info mentioned a 20-some page agreement that he was having his lawyer review, but I may be mistaken. 

You are correct. My rep sent me a copy of the 27 page PSL agreement to review before deciding whether to purchase. Included were payment terms, licensee benefits & obligations, non payment of season tickets, etc.

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t know why any Bills fans are surprised about PSL’s as it’s the norms for new stadiums.

 

The Bucs did it way back in 1996 for Ray Jay when they demolished the old Sombrero.  They weren’t alone.  Bucs fans have to pay a lot of $ back then for psl’s.

 

When the Pegulas, and State fork out $1.5 billion, is this really a surprise.  If anyone doesn’t like it, watch the game from your couch.

[WotAGuy]

2 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I don’t know why any Bills fans are surprised about PSL’s as it’s the norms for new stadiums.

 

The Bucs did it way back in 1996 for Ray Jay when they demolished the old Sombrero.  They weren’t alone.  Bucs fans have to pay a lot of $ back then for psl’s.

 

When the Pegulas, and State fork out $1.5 billion, is this really a surprise.  If anyone doesn’t like it, watch the game from your couch.

Reminds me of this South Park classic

 

Edited April 1 by WotAGuy

[papazoid]

Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ??

 

Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst

 

Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats.

 

As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html

 

 

Edited April 1 by papazoid

[OutOfBubbleGum]

On 3/27/2024 at 7:37 PM, loyal2dagame said:

I'm curious as to how many people talking about PSLs have or ever had season tickets compared to people that buy single game tickets again compared to those who don't ever attend and watch on TV.

Just wondering....

And that's not meant to be a shot at anyone,  just trying to see the perspectives from each group.

I used to have 2 club seats in section 232. I don't think I would want to pay 40k to 50k to get them at the new stadium. Also our rec association at work has 4 club and 4 sideline seats that I usually attend a game a year with. The club seats are going away as we can't fund the PSL's and the sideline seats are in real jeopardy of being gone. I wish they'd keep the old stadium.

[eball]

19 minutes ago, papazoid said:

Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ??

 

Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst

 

Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats.

 

As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html

 

 

 

Thank you.  I was just about to post the link to this article as well.  As usual, some b.s. gets out on social media and becomes labeled as "truth" when it isn't even close to being accurate.

 

[PBF81]

10 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

I’ve been reading the same media you have and I think a lot of the problem is people fearing they will lose their seats, due to huge price increases and losing their specific spot they have been in for decades, often with close friends nearby. The latter part really is too bad, but it is the nature of having to reseat everyone in a different stadium. 
 

I also think people are fearing the timeshare type pressure sales job they may get.   These are all reasonable concerns in my opinion. 
 

But I can see why the Bills are doing it the way they are with respect to limiting the options people have to buy seats during their presentation. 
 

The current stadium has a lot, in fact is mostly, season ticket holders. The Bills can’t be offering a menu of different price levels while still maintaining an inventory for the rest of the season ticket holders.  Many STHs have expressed concern they will lose their seats to people who turn down club seats for a lower-level option. The Bills are working it so that doesn’t happen. 
 

Like so many things, people fear the unknown. They also fear someone having control over them. Both of these fears are at work presently.
 

People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process. So that is creating some anger and angst too. We all believe we are more important than we really are. That creates a lot of the anger and anxiety from what I’m reading on Facebook in particular. 
 

Patience and acceptance go a long way in these situations. Most people struggle with those qualities. 

 

 

Agree, it's complex.  That overlaps with my comment.  

 

That fear of losing their seats, it's not reasonable that everyone thinks they're going to get pretty much exactly the same seats because the new stadium will be so much different.  That's not even a possibility.  It's obvious.  

 

As to why they're doing it this way, that's immaterial.  It is what it is, but that doesn't make it "fair" or ethical.  

 

When I said "menu", by no means did I mean then opening it up to a free-for-all in sales, but simply post the varying PSL/ST process for all to see so that people can prepare.  There has to be some process to keep it under control.  

 

Not saying that's entirely practical either.  

 

It seems that people want to know, when their "turn" comes up, we want to be in (this, this, or that) section, what do you have there? kinda thing, and based upon what they can afford without being pressured into spending more than they were prepared to spend.  

 

We'll see, I'm still expecting much more drama.  Personally I don't care, I'm not paying for a PSL nor buying Seasons, so it doesn't really apply to me.  I do know quite a few fans that have been STHs who've told me that they're out now, and there's no shortage of them here either saying the same.  

 

It should be interesting.  

 

 

[DrBob806]

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

 

People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process.
 

 

 

This is my issue. Seniority should be the #1 criteria for seat selection.

[papazoid]

all the 2023  different levels of pricing by section/area

 

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/upload/v1676471808/bills/e7wdwwstbcqf3p4xru8v.jpg

 

assuming they are taking each different class/price one by one. starting with the highest price. then going by seniority within that group.

 

 

Edited April 1 by papazoid

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

This is my issue. Seniority should be the #1 criteria for seat selection.

Wouldn’t work though. They’re offering comparable seating in the new building . If a large portion were to downgrade to a lower level of seating , they’d run out of customers for the premium seating and have to slash prices.  Their approach is understandable Vs purely by seniority.

[yall]

5 hours ago, papazoid said:

Outcry over Bills' personal seat license rollout misguided ??

 

Only 1.6% of season-ticket account holders (all of whom have premium club-seat locations at the current stadium) have been invited to the Stadium Experience in Amherst

 

Among the people who have been invited, 96% have visited the Stadium Experience or scheduled a visit, and 75% of the account holders who have visited have signed PSL agreements for club seats.

 

As soon as this summer, season-ticket holders who currently have lower-bowl seats around midfield will be contacted. The PSL process will continue through the summer of 2026

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-personal-seat-license-ryan-ohalloran-column/article_0fdb8c78-edc3-11ee-8861-b3348dac0c5b.html

 

 

Tonight at 11:

 

"Local sports reporter who will attend all games for free on behalf of the selling organization derides the cost concerns of paying customers."

 

 

In all seriousness it's a bit of a small sample set and given that the Bills are fully in control of whom they bring and in what order it should be of little surprise to anyone that their initial hit rate is good.

 

I'll reserve judgement until I see what I'm going to be asked to pay.

[DrBob806]

26 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wouldn’t work though. They’re offering comparable seating in the new building . If a large portion were to downgrade to a lower level of seating , they’d run out of customers for the premium seating and have to slash prices.  Their approach is understandable Vs purely by seniority.

So over priced seats are ok? Rhetorical question obviously.

 

Here's the thing. You've got a family who's been a loyal Bills customer since the 60s, and the Bills are telling that family they may potentially lose out on their seats, because they didn't splurge for the pricier seats over time? It's wrong. 

 

 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

23 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I couldn’t let the bold pass. Classifying and lumping people together like that is a bad idea. There are all kinds of people in the Billionaires Club. My wife is in Wealth Management and they do annual retreats with top clients, including several billionaires.  Like non-billionaires, some are A-holes while others are absolutely delightful. 

 

 

Agree to disagree… I’m sure there are all kinds of people in the Billionares Club, a good one however, I’ll believe it when I meet one.  The idea of an altruistic billionaire sounds great in theory, imagine what the world would actually look like if this were indeed the case. Glad you couldn’t let the “bold pass”, what the world definitely needs is the part of the 99% white knighting on behalf of the <1%…

 

If they were good people, they wouldn’t be billionaires. They would’ve used the overwhelming majority of their liquidity/worth to do good, and make lasting change to leave this planet/society better than the one they were born into, and then still live a life of luxury that the overwhelming majority could never fathom on a pittance of a couple hundred million $.

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Agree to disagree… I’m sure there are all kinds of people in the Billionares Club, a good one however, I’ll believe it when I meet one.  The idea of an altruistic billionaire sounds great in theory, imagine what the world would actually look like if this were indeed the case. Glad you couldn’t let the “bold pass”, what the world definitely needs is the part of the 99% white knighting on behalf of the <1%…

 

 If they were good people, they wouldn’t be billionaires. They would’ve used the overwhelming majority of their liquidity/worth to do good, and make lasting change to leave this planet/society better than the one they were born into, and then still live a life of luxury that the overwhelming majority could never fathom on a pittance of a couple hundred million $.

 

You may have heard of some of these people. 

 

https://givingpledge.org/about

 

“In August 2010, 40 of America’s wealthiest people made a commitment to give the majority of their wealth to address some of society’s most pressing problems. Created by Warren Buffett, Melinda French Gates, and Bill Gates, the Giving Pledge came to life following a series of conversations with philanthropists about how they could set a new standard of generosity among the ultra-wealthy. While originally focused on the United States, the Giving Pledge quickly saw interest from philanthropists around the world.”

 

But please feel free to continue to lump people together by a single trait and judge them (incorrectly, I might add). They have a word for that. 

 

.

Edited April 1 by Augie

[mrags]

55 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

So over priced seats are ok? Rhetorical question obviously.

 

Here's the thing. You've got a family who's been a loyal Bills customer since the 60s, and the Bills are telling that family they may potentially lose out on their seats, because they didn't splurge for the pricier seats over time? It's wrong. 

 

 

Huh? This is exactly why they are doing it the way they’re doing it. They are going section by section. If that family had seats in the cheapest section of the stadium, they will get an opportunity to buy tickets in a similar section of the new stadium. 
 

you do know that the new stadium will have as many seats as there are season ticket holders in the current stadium now right? 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

You may have heard of some of these people. 

 

https://givingpledge.org/about

 

“In August 2010, 40 of America’s wealthiest people made a commitment to give the majority of their wealth to address some of society’s most pressing problems. Created by Warren Buffett, Melinda French Gates, and Bill Gates, the Giving Pledge came to life following a series of conversations with philanthropists about how they could set a new standard of generosity among the ultra-wealthy. While originally focused on the United States, the Giving Pledge quickly saw interest from philanthropists around the world.”

 

But please feel free to continue to lump people together by a single trait and judge them (incorrectly, I might add). They have a word for that. 

 

.

Lol yes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are “good people” now, right… back to 🏈…

[major]

8 hours ago, Mr Info said:

You are correct. My rep sent me a copy of the 27 page PSL agreement to review before deciding whether to purchase. Included were payment terms, licensee benefits & obligations, non payment of season tickets, etc.

 

IMG_3048.avif

[CodeMonkey]

22 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

A little dramatic.  Every business is affected by their bottom line.

 

So anyone who buys a PSL is getting blindly and stupidly raped?   
 

You have your right and opinion to not like it and also not go.  But since the NFL continues to grow and this is supply meets demand again…and the NFL has no reason to change.

 

I am not going to like paying more but I understand it is what it is.  I bring my son up there every year and this won’t stop me from doing it.  Plane tickets, hotels and game tickets are expensive for me but I will continue to do it because its worth it to me.

 

If its too financially hard on you, it sucks, I really do feel bad for you but this the result of something that is the biggest sport in the world revenue wise.  
 

 

Agree about the bolded 100%.  It's great that you can afford it, and that you and your son enjoy the experience enough to take the price increase in stride. It's not financially hard on me. Like you I could afford it as well.  But the experience for me is not worth anywhere near the cost of the day at the Ralph.  We stopped going in person several years ago.  Now for the 1pm starts I record the game, and I have software that skips the commercials automatically on playback. So my family spends Sunday afternoons doing what we like, then we get pizza and all meet up to watch the game in 90 minutes or so while eating dinner. 

 

What I feel bad about are the fans that have managed to afford seasons for their families for years, now needing to find or get a loan for a pretty large lump sum payment that does nothing but help finance the Biils new stadium rather than the NFL, which as you say is the "biggest  sport in the world revenue wise" (it's actually 2nd behind soccer, but close), financing it.   That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.      

[GottaRun]

55 minutes ago, mrags said:

Huh? This is exactly why they are doing it the way they’re doing it. They are going section by section. If that family had seats in the cheapest section of the stadium, they will get an opportunity to buy tickets in a similar section of the new stadium. 
 

you do know that the new stadium will have as many seats as there are season ticket holders in the current stadium now right? 

If it was just a pure ticket purchase I could agree with you.
If the PSL was the same price throughout the stadium I could agree with you.

 

With the very limited info we have to go on it sounds like PSL prices are far, far, far higher for those of us who sit lower level near the middle of the field.  So as a longtime season ticket holder I might end up being punished as I can't afford a PSL in the area the Bills expect me to sit in.  

 

It's a logical move by the Bills in the sense of making sure they sell the expensive seats, but it's a bs move in the sense that I could move to a cheaper seat any of the last 21 years I've had tickets and no one would have batted an eye.  Now all of a sudden I'm tied to my area ... or maybe I'm not.  For sure I'm left guessing as the Bills aren't releasing info.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Lol yes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are “good people” now, right… back to 🏈…

 

Yes, I would recommend that too. 

 

I guess giving away BILLIONS of dollars does not get you forgiven for having billions of dollars….in your mind at least.  I don’t get the hate for people you have never been in a room with. Being successful and wealthy does not make you evil, despite what you might think.  It sounds angry and jealous, tbh. 

 

Do you hate everyone, or just billionaires. Where do you draw the line? How do you feel about your neighbors? You've probably met them. (This is the flip side of an argument made earlier, fyi.  😊) 

 

OK, let’s just draft somebody already………