PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

Wealth Management and they do annual retreats with top clients, including several billionaires.  

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

some are A-holes while others are absolutely delightful. 

I mean... people typically are good to their own people.

So it doesn't surprise me that a retreat of billionaires and close-to-billionaires results in mostly good behavior with each other.

Put them in a retreat with plumbers, bricklayers and homeless, then let me know how they act.

[Augie]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I mean... people typically are good to their own people.

So it doesn't surprise me that a retreat of billionaires and close-to-billionaires results in mostly good behavior with each other.

Put them in a retreat with plumbers, bricklayers and homeless, then let me know how they act.

 

So you think labeling and classifying and judging people due to a certain trait is a good idea? Really? 

 

I don’t know any billionaires, but we know several people who are family office size of $100mil or more. We have traveled with them and seen them with all types of people. I don’t feel like I should have to defend them when you have never even set eyes on them. 

 

This is coming off as juvenile at this point. 

 

.

 

Edited March 31 by Augie

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So you think labeling and classifying and judging people due to a certain trait is a good idea? Really? 

 

I dont see it as 'good' or 'bad'. Just is what it is.

Just like I classify most rocks as 'hard'. 

[HOUSE]

46 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So you think labeling and classifying and judging people due to a certain trait is a good idea? Really? 

 

I don’t know any billionaires, but we know several people who are family office size of $100mil or more. We have traveled with them and seen them with all types of people. I don’t feel like I should have to defend them when you have never even set eyes on them. 

 

This is coming off as juvenile at this point. 

 

.

 

 

I have $25 in my savings but I don't go around bragging

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

I have $25 in my savings but I don't go around bragging

 

Did you ever replace your ashtray? I might kick in if you start a Go Fund Me. 

Edited March 31 by Augie

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Most who have "considerable wealth" didn't get there by blindly and stupidly allowing themselves to get raped by businesses.

 

They had a small business owner on the news here recently who has 8 box seats seasons, has had them for years.  His ticket rep told him the PSL for him would be $400K, which his business could not afford.  The owner asked if there was some kind of discount available and was told no.  The choice was to pay or give up some or all of the seats. The rep did offer up the contact info for a place to take out a loan (from which I suspect the Bills get a kickback). 

 

That's what the NFL has come to, pricing themselves out of reach to blue collar fans.  The NFL has shown its insatiable greed for some time now, but I (probably stupidly) was expecting more from a team in a blue collar town like Buffalo.  

As do the teams themselves.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like it don't pay.  That's all the NFL cares about quite frankly, when it affects their bottom line. 

A little dramatic.  Every business is affected by their bottom line.

 

So anyone who buys a PSL is getting blindly and stupidly raped?   
 

You have your right and opinion to not like it and also not go.  But since the NFL continues to grow and this is supply meets demand again…and the NFL has no reason to change.

 

I am not going to like paying more but I understand it is what it is.  I bring my son up there every year and this won’t stop me from doing it.  Plane tickets, hotels and game tickets are expensive for me but I will continue to do it because its worth it to me.

 

If its too financially hard on you, it sucks, I really do feel bad for you but this the result of something that is the biggest sport in the world revenue wise.  
 

[BarleyNY]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:13 PM, Punching Bag said:

 

Ebenezer Scrooge was a very rich man and way he did it was making sure he paid as little as possible.

 

Ebenezer Scrooge was a fictional character whose character change was the point of the story.

Edited April 3 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

The only real issue I have will this entire situation is the obfuscation by of important information. I have zero issue with capitalism - businesses setting prices for their goods and services and customers making decisions on whether or not to buy them. But it is not right when a business purposefully misleads its customers by withholding information about the transaction. And while caveat emptor certainly applies, it’s still very shady. And it seems to be standard operating procedure for the introduction of PSLs. 

[Saxum]

16 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Ebenezer Scrooge was a fictional character whose character change which was the point of the story.

 

Ebenezer Scrooge was based on real people at the time but he changed which was and is rare.

[BarleyNY]

15 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

Ebenezer Scrooge was based on real people at the time but he changed which was and is rare.

 

That is not thought to be true. IIRC the Scrooge character was based on Dickens’ father. Thus the two very different versions of him in the story. Scrooge’s treatment of his workers was a social and political statement regarding the (mis)treatment of the working class which was seen as very disposable at the time. 

[WotAGuy]

27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The only real issue I have will this entire situation is the obfuscation by of important information. I have zero issue with capitalism - businesses setting prices for their goods and services and customers making decisions on whether or not to buy them. But it is not right when a business purposefully misleads its customers by withholding information about the transaction. And while caveat emptor certainly applies, it’s still very shady. And it seems to be standard operating procedure for the introduction of PSLs. 

Can you identify what information is being withheld about the transaction?  
 

I understand some customers are sharing information about the pricing they have been given. So that info is out there. Those are the only transactions that have taken place so far to my knowledge. 
 

Now if you are referring to the PSL costs for other seating areas, the Bills have said those have not been determined yet, so there’s no information to withhold that I can see. 
 

If the PSL cost for other areas will be lowered if they sell a lot of the high-end PSLs, as has been surmised, then everyone should be hoping they sell a lot of those MFers. 

[BarleyNY]

20 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Can you identify what information is being withheld about the transaction?  
 

I understand some customers are sharing information about the pricing they have been given. So that info is out there. Those are the only transactions that have taken place so far to my knowledge. 
 

Now if you are referring to the PSL costs for other seating areas, the Bills have said those have not been determined yet, so there’s no information to withhold that I can see. 
 

If the PSL cost for other areas will be lowered if they sell a lot of the high-end PSLs, as has been surmised, then everyone should be hoping they sell a lot of those MFers. 

 

The pricing will come out. My issue is with the specifics on how the PSLs work. There is a ton of misinformation out there now because it’s not being explained. I am sure that it will be put in the fine print in legalese at the last minute. The result will be that a lot of people will buy them without understanding what they bought. I lived in Cleveland when they got their last stadium and it is what happened there. I’ve watched for it in other cities since and it seems to be the playbook NFL teams use.

[WotAGuy]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The pricing will come out. My issue is with the specifics on how the PSLs work. There is a ton of misinformation out there now because it’s not being explained. I am sure that it will be put in the fine print in legalese at the last minute. The result will be that a lot of people will buy them without understanding what they bought. I lived in Cleveland when they got their last stadium and it is what happened there. I’ve watched for it in other cities since and it seems to be the playbook NFL teams use.

OK, I see what you are talking about and see what you mean.  However, unless you have been through the process and bought a PSL from the Bills, aren’t you projecting a lot of negative assumptions on that process?  There really is no basis for what you are supposing is going to happen, other than you know some people who didn’t do their due diligence when they bought PSLs from another team. 
 

If you’ve ever bought a house, did you read and understand the mountain of paperwork you signed your name to a dozen or more times?   I just bought a car and the papers I needed to sign were going by like a printing press. It was ridiculous.  However, that’s the way a lot of high-value transactions are done, and it’s up to the consumer to know what they are getting into. 
 

I don’t feel that these entities are trying to obfuscate the consumer; I think they are trying to protect themselves because they are selling thousands of their products, and of course they hold the advantage because they have something the consumers want. 
 

If I’m spending thousands on a PSL and don’t understand the contract, I’m gonna spend a few hundred to have a lawyer vet it for me. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

Can you identify what information is being withheld about the transaction?  
 

I understand some customers are sharing information about the pricing they have been given. So that info is out there. Those are the only transactions that have taken place so far to my knowledge. 
 

Now if you are referring to the PSL costs for other seating areas, the Bills have said those have not been determined yet, so there’s no information to withhold that I can see. 
 

If the PSL cost for other areas will be lowered if they sell a lot of the high-end PSLs, as has been surmised, then everyone should be hoping they sell a lot of those MFers. 

 

I'm not deeply involved in this conversation, although I read up on it here, but from reading here and elsewhere like the BuffNews, Facebook, etc., it seems that the biggest issue among fans is that they want the pricing structure like a menu, to be able to see what they can afford and attempt to get the best seats for them that fit within that pricing structure, if at all.  

 

The "problem" appears to be that the team is only going to release a level or two at a time down the chart.  The problem that this presents is that people seem to be afraid that they're going to get pressured into seats/STs that may not be what they'd have chosen had they known all the options.  That's reasonable.  

 

It's one thing to only open up sales for certain sections.  It's quite another to hide the pricing info from fans as they go through the process, and it's viewed as high-pressure sales, which of course it is.  Who can or wants to pay for it has nothing to do with it, which will work itself out.  

 

It's going to be quite interesting to see how this all shakes out once the more reasonably priced tix & PSLs start going on sale.  

 

I could be entirely wrong, that's just my read for a large part of it.  

 

 

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

That is not thought to be true. IIRC the Scrooge character was based on Dickens’ father. Thus the two very different versions of him in the story. Scrooge’s treatment of his workers was a social and political statement regarding the (mis)treatment of the working class which was seen as very disposable at the time. 

 

In college I was in literature class and research had indicated it was a composite of multiple people and he had frequent jabs at non-contributing wealthy.

[TwistofFate]

Too be honest, I can't believe people are shocked over these prices. 

 

A brand new stadium cost a fortune is being built, how do you think they are paying for it?

 

The old stadium carried no mortgage.  It was paid for in cash by pegula if my memory serves my correctly. 

 

It's impossible to expect those cheap prices forever, especially being they were the lowest in the league. 

 

This was more than expected for me, it was guaranteed to happen. 

[WotAGuy]

24 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm not deeply involved in this conversation, although I read up on it here, but from reading here and elsewhere like the BuffNews, Facebook, etc., it seems that the biggest issue among fans is that they want the pricing structure like a menu, to be able to see what they can afford and attempt to get the best seats for them that fit within that pricing structure, if at all.  

 

The "problem" appears to be that the team is only going to release a level or two at a time down the chart.  The problem that this presents is that people seem to be afraid that they're going to get pressured into seats/STs that may not be what they'd have chosen had they known all the options.  That's reasonable.  

 

It's one thing to only open up sales for certain sections.  It's quite another to hide the pricing info from fans as they go through the process, and it's viewed as high-pressure sales, which of course it is.  Who can or wants to pay for it has nothing to do with it, which will work itself out.  

 

It's going to be quite interesting to see how this all shakes out once the more reasonably priced tix & PSLs start going on sale.  

 

I could be entirely wrong, that's just my read for a large part of it.  

 

 

I’ve been reading the same media you have and I think a lot of the problem is people fearing they will lose their seats, due to huge price increases and losing their specific spot they have been in for decades, often with close friends nearby. The latter part really is too bad, but it is the nature of having to reseat everyone in a different stadium. 
 

I also think people are fearing the timeshare type pressure sales job they may get.   These are all reasonable concerns in my opinion. 
 

But I can see why the Bills are doing it the way they are with respect to limiting the options people have to buy seats during their presentation. 
 

The current stadium has a lot, in fact is mostly, season ticket holders. The Bills can’t be offering a menu of different price levels while still maintaining an inventory for the rest of the season ticket holders.  Many STHs have expressed concern they will lose their seats to people who turn down club seats for a lower-level option. The Bills are working it so that doesn’t happen. 
 

Like so many things, people fear the unknown. They also fear someone having control over them. Both of these fears are at work presently.
 

People also feel their personal STH seniority should carry more weight than it appears it will in the PSL process. So that is creating some anger and angst too. We all believe we are more important than we really are. That creates a lot of the anger and anxiety from what I’m reading on Facebook in particular. 
 

Patience and acceptance go a long way in these situations. Most people struggle with those qualities. 

 

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

OK, I see what you are talking about and see what you mean.  However, unless you have been through the process and bought a PSL from the Bills, aren’t you projecting a lot of negative assumptions on that process?  There really is no basis for what you are supposing is going to happen, other than you know some people who didn’t do their due diligence when they bought PSLs from another team. 
 

If you’ve ever bought a house, did you read and understand the mountain of paperwork you signed your name to a dozen or more times?   I just bought a car and the papers I needed to sign were going by like a printing press. It was ridiculous.  However, that’s the way a lot of high-value transactions are done, and it’s up to the consumer to know what they are getting into. 
 

I don’t feel that these entities are trying to obfuscate the consumer; I think they are trying to protect themselves because they are selling thousands of their products, and of course they hold the advantage because they have something the consumers want. 
 

If I’m spending thousands on a PSL and don’t understand the contract, I’m gonna spend a few hundred to have a lawyer vet it for me. 

 

The terms of the PSL transaction would seem simple enough to clarify. I’ll wait and see how it all plays out. And tens of thousands of fans should not all need lawyers for that. 

[WotAGuy]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

The terms of the PSL transaction would seem simple enough to clarify. I’ll wait and see how it all plays out. And tens of thousands of fans should not all need lawyers for that. 

I think I remember that @Mr Info mentioned a 20-some page agreement that he was having his lawyer review, but I may be mistaken. 

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, Punching Bag said:

 

In college I was in literature class and research had indicated it was a composite of multiple people and he had frequent jabs at non-contributing wealthy.

Can’t believe that I looked this up for this board. Many theories but no real evidence of a specific person or composite.