PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[mrags]

1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Maybe but I doubt it , people here are never happy.

At least they would have been miserable pricks that were dry and warm tho 

[WotAGuy]

34 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Not wondering, genius. Responding to @ProcessTruster re his concern that the stadium WILL be filled with resold tickets once PSLs are in effect.

 

Probably difficult to understand what a poster is saying when you diarrah post responses to every comment made.

Hey, if you’re not part of the solution you you’re part of the problem.  You only sell to Bills fans?

[DieHardFan]

9 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Hey, if you’re not part of the solution you you’re part of the problem.  You only sell to Bills fans?

Prefer to sell to Bills fans. My tickets are listed on TM AND in the dysfunctional Bills Tickets and Gear section without fees. They rarely sell on TBD but always sell. 

You can try but you can't fix (or sell to) stupid.

 

I see your intelligence matches your image, you judgemental buffoon .

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

There is definitely a sunk cost, but people can bail on them if need be.  

 

They can, but most people won't want to, because humans are reluctant to abandon something they've already put resources into, even when doing so would be the rational decision based on current circumstances. It's then sunk cost fallacy.

"I just paid $40k for two PSL's in the club section five years ago. How could I possibly justify letting them go? I must suck it up and pay the ever-increasing season ticket prices, because if I don't, that $40k was a waste."
 

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

But don’t PSLs also have diminishing returns?  They have a fixed lifespan, so as the years go by, wouldn’t you expect the value to decrease as their usable life decreases?  

 

Yes, which is part of why it sucks so much. And it can be calculated 10 ways to Sunday and all the results would be a dismal picture.

Consider the time value of money, for one. Take a $20k PSL (club section pricing I've seen) as an example. What is the NPV? Well, NPV is a function of time and discount rate. Let's use a simplified NPV due to no cash inflows, replacing with price.


 

From what we have seen, $20,000 per PSL is what the Bills are asking for club seats. 

And we know they have a 30 year lifespan, so let's look at the NPV for 5 years from purchase date.

Assuming only a 5% discount rate, we get a dismal future outlook

 

The NPV of a $20,000 PSL at 5 year onset is $5,906.67.

And this is only a discount rate at 5%. The opportunity cost of capital for any of us could be the average market return at the moment. 



2023 was over 20%. You don't want to see the calculations at 20+% discount rate.

 

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

 

Also, the fortunes of the team will probably play a big role in the market value of PSLs; if the team goes on a championship run, wouldn’t you expect the value to be affected positively by that?

If they WIN a Super Bowl, it will spike for a year or two. Are you willing to sell your PSL in that time to realize the gain (or lack of loss)? 

Or will you be so excited about the Championship that you decide to keep it? 

Which then creates a situation where if the team does not repeat (regresses), your value goes down. 

We saw this with Giants PSL's after their Super Bowl. Wild peak, then off a cliff.

Edited March 30 by Einstein

[WotAGuy]

5 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Prefer to sell to Bills fans. My tickets are listed on TM AND in the dysfunctional Bills Tickets and Gear section without fees. They rarely sell on TBD but always sell. 

You can try but you can't fix (or sell to) stupid.

 

I see your intelligence matches your image, you judgemental buffoon .

Happy Easter!

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

They can, but most people won't want to, because humans are reluctant to abandon something they've already put resources into, even when doing so would be the rational decision based on current circumstances. It's then sunk cost fallacy.

"I just paid $40k for two PSL's in the club section five years ago. How could I possibly justify letting them go? I must suck it up and pay the ever-increasing season ticket prices, because if I don't, that $40k was a waste."
 

 

Yes, which is part of why it sucks so much. And it can be calculated 10 ways to Sunday and all the results would be a dismal picture.

Consider the time value of money, for one. Take a $20k PSL (club section pricing I've seen) as an example. What is the NPV? Well, NPV is a function of time and discount rate.


 

From what we have seen, $20,000 per PSL is what the Bills are asking for club seats. 

And we know they have a 30 year lifespan, so let's look at the NPV for 5 years from purchase date.

Assuming only a 5% discount rate, we get a dismal future outlook

 

The NPV of a $20,000 PSL at 5 year onset is $5,906.67.

And this is only a discount rate at 5%. The opportunity cost of capital for any of us could be the average market return at the moment. 



2023 was over 20%. You don't want to see the calculations at 20+% discount rate.

 

If they WIN a Super Bowl, it will spike for a year or two. Are you willing to sell your PSL in that time to realize the gain (or lack of loss)? 

Or will you be so excited about the Championship that you decide to keep it? 

Happy Easter Einstein!

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I’ll just stick with buying a top of the line TV every few years, with the best viewing angles possible, no traffic or obnoxious drunks vomiting in public… to each their own, I get why others enjoy the stadium experience, I did in my 20s, when the team was awful, and tickets were readily available, often below face value on gameday, but as a fan of the actual game and it’s nuances, I don’t think there is a worse sport to watch live. Idc what your financial situation is, I couldn’t fathom paying these egregious sums to watch a game where you’re not even certain what’s happened half of the time until you’ve watched the replay on the Jumbotron. If I had enough $ to not care about the price of the PSLs, that’d mean I’d be worth enough to own my own team, and I’d just do that instead.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Can someone summarize for me the anger over the PSLs? I am not a season ticket holder. I thought it was assumed the new stadium was going to have PSLs. 

I dont understand why the outrage as if people were duped. Did people expect there was not going to be a PSL?

 

[Nitro]

If PSLs are too expensive the market will dictate the results.   Season tickets drop opening up seating to those who want to purchase tickets to single games.   It will afford the opportunity for out of town fans to come to games.  Wait and see and maybe be in a few years PSLs will reduce in price.  

[Einstein]

34 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Can someone summarize for me the anger over the PSLs? I am not a season ticket holder. I thought it was assumed the new stadium was going to have PSLs. 

I dont understand why the outrage as if people were duped. Did people expect there was not going to be a PSL?

If someone tells you that they are going to poke you in the eye of March 22nd at 4:32pm, i'm sure you will be upset.

Will you be any less upset when the eye poke happens, having known that it was comming?

[WotAGuy]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

If someone tells you that they are going to poke you in the eye of March 22nd at 4:32pm, i'm sure you will be upset.

Will you be any less upset when the eye poke happens, having known that it was comming?

Depends…..does this happen in a Taco Bell?

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

 If I had enough $ to not care about the price of the PSLs, that’d mean I’d be worth enough to own my own team, and I’d just do that instead.

If you were worth $500M, you’d care about the price of PSLs? I can’t fathom living in a world where the interest on my money gives off millions of dollars a year and thinking, “do they seriously expect me to pay $5,000, one-time, for the right to buy a season ticket?!?” 😂😂😂 

Edited March 30 by Kirby Jackson

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Can someone summarize for me the anger over the PSLs? I am not a season ticket holder. I thought it was assumed the new stadium was going to have PSLs. 

I dont understand why the outrage as if people were duped. Did people expect there was not going to be a PSL?

 

People need something to complain about 😀

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you were worth $500M, you’d care about the price of PSLs? I can’t fathom living in a world where the interest on my money gives off millions of dollars a year and thinking, “do they seriously expect me to pay $5,000 for the right to buy a season ticket?!?” 😂😂😂 

I live in a world where my net worth does not determine my sense of value. It's actually a very nice world to live in.

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I live in a world where my net worth does not determine my sense of value. It's actually a very nice world to live in.

So for the purposes of the 25 page conversation are you on team, “even if I had a billion dollars I wouldn’t spend $1 on a PSL” or team, “PSLs suck but that’s the way business is done in 2024?” 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

If someone tells you that they are going to poke you in the eye of March 22nd at 4:32pm, i'm sure you will be upset.

Will you be any less upset when the eye poke happens, having known that it was comming?

Well to keep using your analogy you can choose not to get poked in the eye. 

Nobody is forcing someone to buy the PSL.

If you want the team to stay in Buffalo this is the price you pay. It's the world we live in. 

No less than five other cities would take the Bills and their fans would willingly pay for the PSL.

Cleveland and northeast Ohio is about to put up 500 million just to renovate their broken down stadium or get shilled for $1B or more to build a dome. 

Can't have it both ways. You want the team you have to pay. 

 

As for me I'm still going to get club level tix a few times a year and hit a couple away games a year. I still work too many weekends to justify season tix even if I'm only under 3 hours away now. 

[GottaRun]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Can someone summarize for me the anger over the PSLs? I am not a season ticket holder. I thought it was assumed the new stadium was going to have PSLs. 

I dont understand why the outrage as if people were duped. Did people expect there was not going to be a PSL?

 

People are guessing at what the PSL will be for the cheaper seats... then they are getting outraged at the imaginary number they came up with

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

13 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So for the purposes of the 25 page conversation are you on team, “even if I had a billion dollars I wouldn’t spend $1 on a PSL” or team, “PSLs suck but that’s the way business is done in 2024?” 

  If I valued the PSL at over $1.00, I would buy it. If I valued the PSL at less than $1.00, I wouldn't. You can substitute any $ amount you like into that sentence. So I guess I'm on neither team. Many factors can influence how I value something, but net worth is not one of them. Net worth certainly effects what I am able to buy, just not how I value something. I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to describe someone else's world to you.

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Well to keep using your analogy you can choose not to get poked in the eye. 

Nobody is forcing someone to buy the PSL.

If you want the team to stay in Buffalo this is the price you pay. It's the world we live in. 

No less than five other cities would take the Bills and their fans would willingly pay for the PSL.

Cleveland and northeast Ohio is about to put up 500 million just to renovate their broken down stadium or get shilled for $1B or more to build a dome. 

Can't have it both ways. You want the team you have to pay. 

 

As for me I'm still going to get club level tix a few times a year and hit a couple away games a year. I still work too many weekends to justify season tix even if I'm only under 3 hours away now. 

 100% to this post.

[WotAGuy]

4 hours ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

  If I valued the PSL at over $1.00, I would buy it. If I valued the PSL at less than $1.00, I wouldn't. You can substitute any $ amount you like into that sentence. So I guess I'm on neither team. Many factors can influence how I value something, but net worth is not one of them. Net worth certainly effects what I am able to buy, just not how I value something. I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to describe someone else's world to you.

That’s a fresh perspective. 
 

You should meet up with Einstein, I think you two would hit it off. 
 

 

Edited March 31 by WotAGuy

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Well to keep using your analogy you can choose not to get poked in the eye. 

Nobody is forcing someone to buy the PSL.

If you want the team to stay in Buffalo this is the price you pay. It's the world we live in. 

No less than five other cities would take the Bills and their fans would willingly pay for the PSL.

Cleveland and northeast Ohio is about to put up 500 million just to renovate their broken down stadium or get shilled for $1B or more to build a dome. 

Can't have it both ways. You want the team you have to pay. 

 

As for me I'm still going to get club level tix a few times a year and hit a couple away games a year. I still work too many weekends to justify season tix even if I'm only under 3 hours away now. 

Good point. Cleveland stadium is only about 25 years old now as well. Rich/ Ralph/ New Era/ Highmark is over 50 years old. This is actually something that Buffalo should have went through about 20 years ago but managed to stave it off. The Bills have been in the old model NFL economy for 30 years longer than anyone else.