PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[ProcessTruster]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Because that won’t raise the $200m that they’re looking for

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

[Einstein]

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

How are the Bills gouging the taxpayers?  

Taxpayers have no obligation or need to purchase a PSL. It’s a voluntary choice to pay for entertainment.

I never said they were obligatory. You are falling into the same trap that Kirby did, moving the goalposts of the conversation.

 

I simply stated that they are not common in other business. It’s a racket that is found nearly exclusively in sports (and timeshares).

 

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

With regard to your item 2 above, I think it shows growth and maturity on your part to concur that PSLs are a fee, just as Ticketmaster charges a fee.  We are finding common ground.  

 

It is a fee - considering a fee is just a payment made in return for something - never said it wasn’t.

 

But it’s not the same as a ticket fee.

 

- PSL fees go to the originator (who also benefit from the ticket price AND the taxpayer money).

 

- Ticket fees go to a third party (unaffiliated with the originator) and that is the only revenue they collect. They do not receive the ticket price or the taxpayer money.

 

Two completely and fundamentally different items.

 

For any similar comparison to be made they must contain all three components: Taxpayer funded, taxpayer double dipped (PSL), then taxpayer purchases for tickets.

 

3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why can't they just charge PSLs to non-New York taxpayers?

 

They could. But that would remove a very large portion of the PSL money.

 

Why only single dip when you can double dip and get those taxpayers to pay for your stadium twice?

 

 

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Your original Taco Bell example that started this whole discussion is not consistent with the reality of the Bills’ PSL and ticket process.  😆

 

Well, duh. That was the entire point. Did that really go over your head?

 

Edited March 30 by Einstein

[WotAGuy]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I never said they were obligatory. You are falling into the same trap that Kirby did, moving the goalposts of the conversation.

 

I simply stated that they are not common in other business. It’s a racket that is found nearly exclusively in sports (and timeshares).

 

 

It is a fee - considering a fee is just a payment made in return for something - never said it wasn’t.

 

But it’s not the same as a ticket fee.

 

- PSL fees go to the originator (who also benefit from the ticket price AND the taxpayer money).

 

- Ticket fees go to a third party (unaffiliated with the originator) and that is the only revenue they collect. They do not receive the ticket price or the taxpayer money.

 

Two completely and fundamentally different items.

 

For any similar comparison to be made they must contain all three components: Taxpayer funded, taxpayer double dipped (PSL), then taxpayer purchases for tickets.

 

 

They could. But that would remove a very large portion of the PSL money.

 

Why only single dip when you can double dip and get those taxpayers to pay for your stadium twice?

 

 

 

Well, duh. That was the entire point. Did that really go over your head?

 

 

Weak. You’re running on fumes Einstein. I expected better from you. 

[Einstein]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

Weak. You’re running on fumes Einstein. I expected better from you. 

 

This is common in debate tactic. A final or semi-final dismissive phrase that lacks substance because the person can’t offer a meaningful rebuttal anymore.

 

When it’s pointed out, that person typically responds with something that straddles the lines of ad hominem, such as “I just can’t continue to get it through your thick head” or “Not much to say when you won’t understand”. It’s an attempt to dismiss the conversation by feigning intellectual exhaustion as they have no true counterpoint.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

The PSL owner loses their PSL and seats.  You need to keep buying seasons to keep your PSL.  

 

 

They can sell the PSL to someone else themselves.  Might not get what they paid for it though.  

NFL PSL Seat License Marketplace | Buy & Sell NFL Season Ticket Rights (pslsource.com)

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

[ProcessTruster]

55 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

Yeah it costs $400 for a crap ticket in Highmark.. I just go visit my daughter in NYC and pay $175 for a better seat in MetLife.   Half the stadium is Bills fans so its all good. 

 

The meaning of a "home game" will be diminishing league-wide in the next 5 - 10 years.   Roaming retirees following their team wherever they go + crazy PSLs/season tkt prices have largely watered down "home games" in 7 or 8 places already (Vegas, LA, NYC, DC, AZ, a few others). 

 

The only thing helping WNY is its not a travel destination so much plus it's freezing f ing cold for half the games.  

Edited March 30 by ProcessTruster

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

That’s not happening here. Those PSLs will be like $5K or less in Buffalo. There will be no more opposing fans in the new stadium than there are currently. It’s just not the makeup of this place. It’ll be 90%+ Bills fans at all times (as it always has been).

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

[QCity]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

Maybe not 50% but there will be more visiting fans than at the current stadium. 

[DieHardFan]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

Don't know where you are sitting but that's the CURRENT situation in many sections. Moved to S135 R5 two years ago. I have 4, typically sell 2 -3. Every game I stand and ask who in attendance is a STH sitting in their seat. Never got a response (could be no one wants to respond to a crazy but never see a familiar face).

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Just boycott buying seasons. Tax payers funding Billionaires hobbies is bs to begin with.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

15 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

Listening to people trying to explain what they think is going to happen is annoying. The doom and gloom is back. The lack of understanding from some, combined with the Bills not providing much info has the chicken littles back out. I’ll go on record that 90%+ of the lower bowl will be Bills fans. The PSLs will ALL be snatched up by the current base/waiting list.  

[WotAGuy]

20 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Don't know where you are sitting but that's the CURRENT situation in many sections. Moved to S135 R5 two years ago. I have 4, typically sell 2 -3. Every game I stand and ask who in attendance is a STH sitting in their seat. Never got a response (could be no one wants to respond to a crazy but never see a familiar face).

So….you usually sell most of your tickets and are wondering why there aren’t many STH around you?  Think about that for a minute and get back to us. 😝

52 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

There is definitely a sunk cost, but people can bail on them if need be.  
 

But don’t PSLs also have diminishing returns?  They have a fixed lifespan, so as the years go by, wouldn’t you expect the value to decrease as their usable life decreases?  

 

Also, the fortunes of the team will probably play a big role in the market value of PSLs; if the team goes on a championship run, wouldn’t you expect the value to be affected positively by that?

[Mike in Horseheads]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Listening to people trying to explain what they think is going to happen is annoying. The doom and gloom is back. The lack of understanding from some, combined with the Bills not providing much info has the chicken littles back out. I’ll go on record that 90%+ of the lower bowl will be Bills fans. The PSLs will ALL be snatched up by the current base/waiting list.  

The doom and gloom never left Kirby

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

Now this is an argument that I have not seen anyone make and it might very well end up being the case in Buffalo. You won’t see their ticket prices double overnight (at least not after the new stadium is built) but you will likely see a 5-10% increase in ticket prices jist about every year to every other year. They love to do the 10% increase in a season when we have one less game at home. This way your prices generally don’t go up because your paying for one less game, then the next season when you aren’t even thinking about it they are higher than you expected. 

[DieHardFan]

19 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

So….you usually sell most of your tickets and are wondering why there aren’t many STH around you?  Think about that for a minute and get back to us. 😝

Not wondering, genius. Responding to @ProcessTruster re his concern that the stadium WILL be filled with resold tickets once PSLs are in effect.

 

Probably difficult to understand what a poster is saying when you diarrah post responses to every comment made.

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

The doom and gloom never left Kirby

That’s why I was so adamant about a dome/roofed stadium. Because even the people with the worst seats in the place will at least be dry and comfortable in any condition. And I’m fully aware prices might be even higher, but at least it would feel like we’re gaining something from it.  

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Mike in Horseheads said:

The doom and gloom never left Kirby

Maybe you’re right. I remember having this EXACT conversation during the Bon Jovi era. These people were CONVINCED that the team was heading to Toronto without any understanding of the lease agreement basically making that impossible. Sure enough, the Bills future in WNY was secured and the new stadium on the way.

 

Fast forward a decade and people think that the team is leaving because 1% of the tickets in the stadium have higher PSLs than they expected 😂😂. It’s WILD to watch. Lol, I keep coming across as dismissive and an a-hole but I can’t help it. I feel a responsibility here to prevent this growing “Chicken Little sentiment” built on misinformation and lack of understanding. 

I will try to say this as clearly as possible. THE BILLS WILL BE IN WNY FOR AT LEAST 30 YEARS. THE PSLS WILL SELL TO BILLS FANS AT THE RATE THAT TICKETS CURRENTLY DO. THE NEW STADIUM WILL BE FULL OF BILLS FANS. EVERYONE RELAX!!

[Mike in Horseheads]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

That’s why I was so adamant about a dome/roofed stadium. Because even the people with the worst seats in the place will at least be dry and comfortable in any condition. And I’m fully aware prices might be even higher, but at least it would feel like we’re gaining something from it.  

Maybe but I doubt it , people here are never happy.