PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Jrb1979]

Just now, Just Jack said:

I feel a lot of those people

complaining are seeing the prices for club seats and thinking that will be the entire stadium prices.  

Even at $6000 as the cheapest many said it's too much. 

[Kirby Jackson]

14 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

Well, I didn’t want to brag, but I also have a Costco membership.  Gotta save money somewhere and that’s where ALDIs comes into play. 

I knew that I liked you. 

[WotAGuy]

34 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

Well, I didn’t want to brag, but I also have a Costco membership.  Gotta save money somewhere and that’s where ALDIs comes into play. 

Costco??  Ha!  So you pay a PSL to shop for groceries??  Sucker!!  Hope my tax dollars didn’t pay to build that ***** store!

[QCity]

36 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Even at $6000 as the cheapest many said it's too much. 

 

Where are you getting this information?

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

By entertainment venues do you mean *only* football (or soccer in Europe)?

Because I cant think of any other entertainment venue where you pay for the building, then pay to enter the building, then pay to sit in the seat.

- You dont do that at concerts (unless its at a FOOTBALL stadium).
- You dont do that at comedy shows (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue). 
- You dont do that at magician acts (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue).
- You dont do that at medieval times (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue).

- You don't do that at festivals (taxpayers *might* have paid for the venue, but no PSL).

It's only football (or soccer). 

 

What is successful about it? Do you mean that a few billionaire owners are successful at taking money? 
 

No I don’t just mean football.  As I have said, sports entertainment is different.

 

Who paid for State Farm Arena when I watched Elton John, Bill Burr, Jo Koy and other entertainers?  I had to pay for parking in the parking lot my taxes paid for.  I had to pay for the seat.  I had to pay the ticket fees.

 

You are a businessman and you’re telling me that financial growth doesn’t mean success?  This sport is bigger than all other US sports combined and it will continue to grow.  People are buying the product they are selling.  Its supply meets demand and demand is high.

Edited March 29 by Royale with Cheese

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Who paid for State Farm Arena when I watched Elton John, Bill Burr, Jo Koy and other entertainers?  I had to pay for parking in the parking lot my taxes paid for.  I had to pay for the seat.  I had to pay the ticket fees.

 

Where did you pay for the right to buy the tickets in this example? To meet the qualifications of our situation, the example must include:

 

1) You, the taxpayer, paying for the venue.

2) You paying for the right to buy the ticket (PSL).

3) You paying for the ticket.

 

If any of these are missing, the comparison is not valid.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Where did you pay for the right to buy the tickets in this example? To meet the qualifications of our situation, the example must include:

 

1) You, the taxpayer, paying for the venue.

2) You paying for the right to buy the ticket (PSL).

3) You paying for the ticket.

 

If any of these are missing, the comparison is not valid.

Tax payer funded venues is an easy one.  Paying for the ticket is 100% of the time. If you count TM fees or Stub Hub fees or whatever as “the right to buy the seat” all of your boxes are checked. This isn’t rare.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Where did you pay for the right to buy the tickets in this example? To meet the qualifications of our situation, the example must include:

 

1) You, the taxpayer, paying for the venue.

2) You paying for the right to buy the ticket (PSL).

3) You paying for the ticket.

 

If any of these are missing, the comparison is not valid.

Comparisons do not need to be 100% the same to be valid lol.  That would mean you can’t compare anything because nothing is 100% alike.

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Comparisons do not need to be 100% the same to be valid lol.  That would mean you can’t compare anything because nothing is 100% alike.

 

The PSL’s are the problem for most, so removing that comparable item necessarily removes the point of a comparison.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Tax payer funded venues is an easy one.  Paying for the ticket is 100% of the time. If you count TM fees or Stub Hub fees or whatever as “the right to buy the seat” all of your boxes are checked.

 

Posters really need to read and understand the context of a post or discussion before responding.

 

1) PSL’s = / = Ticket Fees.

 

2) No-one is arguing that this is not rare circumstance in sports. We all know billionaire owners made PSL’s common in sports. This discussion originated from saying that it is not common in general BUSINESS. An analogy was made to taxpayers not paying for the Taco Bell building, then paying to enter the building they paid for, then paying for the tacos themselves. That is what spawned the post you responded to.

[Kirby Jackson]

28 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The PSL’s are the problem for most, so removing that comparable item necessarily removes the point of a comparison.

 

 

 

Posters really need to read and understand the context of a post or discussion before responding.

 

1) PSL’s = / = Ticket Fees.

 

2) No-one is arguing that this is not rare circumstance in sports. We all know billionaire owners made PSL’s common in sports. This discussion originated from saying that it is not common in general BUSINESS. An analogy was made to taxpayers not paying for the Taco Bell building, then paying to enter the building they paid for, then paying for the tacos themselves. That is what spawned the post you responded to.

But it is the norm in entertainment. The tax payers fund the facility. The tickets cost what they cost. You pay a fee on top of that ticket price to be able to purchase the ticket.
 

Why compare a sporting event to a Taco Bell instead of a sporting event to a theater or concert venue? You can compare ice cream to frozen yogurt or you can compare ice cream to toilet paper. I’m not sure why you’re electing the ice cream to toilet paper as opposed to ice cream to frozen yogurt. 

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

But it is the norm in entertainment. The tax payers fund the facility. The tickets cost what they cost. You pay a fee on top of that ticket price to be able to purchase the ticket.
 

Why compare a sporting event to a Taco Bell instead of a sporting event to a theater or concert venue? You can compare ice cream to frozen yogurt or you can compare ice cream to toilet paper. I’m not sure why you’re electing the ice cream to toilet paper as opposed to ice cream to frozen yogurt. 

Using toilet paper because their argument is sh!t. 🤣🤣

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

Using toilet paper because their argument is sh!t. 🤣🤣

Lol, felt like toilet paper fit well with Taco Bell

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

But it is the norm in entertainment.

It’s not.

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

theater

 

Name the theaters that were:

 

1) Built using taxpayer money

2) AND Charges PSL’s for the right to purchase tickets.

3) AND Then charges for the ticket itself.

 

You may find some venues that meet #1. And of course #3. But show me the venues that meet all three. Then we can compare.

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

or concert venue?

 

Name the concert venues that were:

 

1) Built using taxpayer money

2) AND Charges PSL’s for the right to purchase tickets.

3) AND Then charges for the ticket itself.

 

You may find some venues that meet #1. And of course #3. But show me the venues that meet all three. Then we can compare.

 

The reason the Taco Bell argument arose is because a poster made a comment that this type of activity is normal in all business. Not just sports. The entire point was to compare what is done in sports to an unrelated business. Again, you have to follow the conversation to understand why posts are written.

 

Outside of a few extreme outliers, you’re not going to find many examples.

 

Edited March 29 by Einstein

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

when you have a PSL you own the right to a seat at any event held in that arena/stadium. Period. (Except for the SuperBowl which we won’t ever have to worry about anyway)

This is not necessarily true. I had PSLs at a stadium in another city and only had the rights to the seats for football. The Pegulas can make other events part of the PSL package - or not. It is 100% up to them.

 

Functionally it doesn’t make much sense to tie PSL holders to their seats anyway. One issue is that some seats won’t even be used for concerts as they’d be behind the stage. Also additional seats would be added for an event like that and other seats would be in much better or worse locations than for football. It’s easier to just allow PSL owners to buy the seats they want before the general public. 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

This is not necessarily true. I had PSLs at a stadium in another city and only had the rights to the seats for football. The Pegulas can make other events part of the PSL package - or not. It is 100% up to them.

 

Functionally it doesn’t make much sense to tie PSL holders to their seats anyway. One issue is that some seats won’t even be used for concerts as they’d be behind the stage. Also additional seats would be added for an event like that and other seats would be in much better or worse locations than for football. It’s easier to just allow PSL owners to buy the seats they want before the general public. 

This is correct.
 

PSL’s mainly give you first dibs at paying full price to garbage - Monster Truck Rallies, lower level concerts, etc.

 

For example, Atlanta Falcons PSL holders don’t get to use their PSL for Chick Fil A bowl game, or college playoff, or even bowl game. I don’t think Taylor Swift concerts count either.

 

You just get football tickets and the garbage that doesn’t sell out.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

It’s not.

 

 

Name the theaters that were:

 

1) Built using taxpayer money

2) Charges PSL’s for the right to purchase tickets.

3) Then charges for the ticket itself.

 

 

Name the concert venues that were:

 

1) Built using taxpayer money

2) Charges PSL’s for the right to purchase tickets.

3) Then charges for the ticket itself.

 

The reason the Taco Bell argument arose is because a poster made a comment that this type of activity is normal in all business. Not just sports. Again, you have to follow the conversation to understand why posts are written.

Is this a serious question? Why do people double down and triple down when they’re wrong? Remember when you could just be wrong and move along?

 

At any rate, MANY concert facilities / theaters are owned by the tax payers. As an example, Shea’s is owned by the City of Buffalo. All charge for tickets. Any fees associated with those tickets are the equivalent of a PSL. They are a fee for the right to buy a ticket. 

Edited March 29 by Kirby Jackson

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why do people double down and triple down when their wrong? Remember when you could just be wrong and move along?

 

You should be asking yourself that question.

 

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

At any rate, MANY concert facilities / theaters are owned by the tax payers. As an example, Shea’s is owned by the City of Buffalo. All charge for tickets.

 

Dont move the goalposts. No-one said there aren’t any entertainment venues built by taxpayers. The question was non-sports entertainment venues that were: 

 

1) Built by taxpayers.

2) AND Have PSL’s.

3) AND You must purchase tickets on top of the PSL or lose it.

 

All three must apply for comparison.

 

I would have assumed you would be able to find at least a few outliers among the 20,000+ in existence.

 

But that really goes to show how it’s NOT the norm. Only in sports.

 

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Any fees associated with those tickets are the equivalent of a PSL. They are a fee for the right to buy a ticket.

 

 

No.

 

Ticket fees = / = PSL’s.

 

PSL’s originate from the organization producing the product (Buffalo Bills, for example).

 

Ticket fees originate from a completely separate entity that uses stub fees as their business model and does not benefit the originating organization.

 

To say that ticket fees are PSL’s is to say that restaurant who put a “kitchen fee” on your tab are charging PSL’s for your food. It’s not optional and you aren’t getting your food (at least legally) without paying for the fee.

 

It also makes no sense considering that the Bills have announced that they will only be using online brokers (like Ticketmaster) going forward, so it would be a double PSL - ticket fee and *actual* PSL.

 

Its all around a really poor argument on your part. 

 

Edited March 29 by Einstein

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You should be asking yourself that question.

 

 

Dont move the goalposts. No-one said there aren’t any entertainment venues built by taxpayers. The question was non-sports entertainment venues that were: 

 

1) Built by taxpayers.

2) AND Have PSL’s.

3) AND You must purchase tickets on top of the PSL or lose it.

 

All three must apply for comparison.

 

I would have assumed you would be able to find at least a few outliers among the 20,000+ in existence.

 

But that really goes to show how it’s NOT the norm. Only in sports.

 

 

 

No.

 

Ticket fees = / = PSL’s.

 

PSL’s originate from the organization producing the product (Buffalo Bills, for example).

 

Ticket fees originate from a completely separate entity that uses stub fees as their business model and does not benefit the originating organization.

 

To say that ticket fees are PSL’s is to say that restaurant who put a “kitchen fee” on your tab are charging PSL’s for your food. It’s stupid.

 

It also makes no sense considering that the Bills have announced that they will only be using online brokers (like Ticketmaster) going forward, so it would be a double PSL - ticket fee and *actual* PSL.

 

Its all around a really poor argument on your part.

Lol, somebody come get your son. I can’t do this any longer…

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

It's all good, I don't disagree with you there and respect your fandom.  I still have a hard time picturing the stadium full to capacity indefinitely going forward if the Bills encounter some more lean years again(not talking about ticket sales, just butts in seats).  

The Bills knew very on in the process that even in the worse years you'd still fill out a 63k capacity stadium for almost all the games.  It's one of the main reasons it's not 72k like we have now.  That and more room for luxury boxes.  The outdoor stadium decision still baffles me though.  This has pry been covered before but how hard would it be to eventually put a roof on it?

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Good idea on your part.

Bruh, I promise that you don’t want to do this. 😂😂😂

 

There are a bazillion venues that are owned by the public. That’s the tax money part.

 

They all charge for tickets to events. You putting that on the list is hilarious. Like, “oh yeah, which of these venues CHAAARRRRRRGES for their tickets, smart guy?” 

 

You’re hung up on the PSL part. It’s okay that you don’t understand how it works. It’s a fee, PAID BY THOSE PLANNING TO CONSUME THE PRODUCT, for the right to purchase tickets, to offset some of the costs, that the private party incurs. So to be clear, you’re upset that THE PEOPLE CONSUMING THE PRODUCT are paying a fee for the right to buy a ticket to consume that product? Don’t you pay a fee on every single ticket that you buy? Isn’t that fee the right to buy a ticket? 
 

Lastly, why are you mad that those people that elect to buy tickets are charged a PSL? Shouldn’t you be more angry that tax money from people that may not care is being used to build this place? That feels like the cloud that you should be yelling at.