PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[BillsPride12]

32 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Tickets are on the resale market for every team, in every league and every event in sports. Yes, there will be resale tickets available in the new stadium. There will also be tickets available on the resale market for the Super Bowl, Olympics, the Masters, the World Cup, the World Series, etc…

 

Um, yes, I’d consider myself a fan. I’ve attended roughly 300 Bills games and seen them in 1/2 of the stadiums in the league. I followed them to London and would follow them to the moon if necessary. I’m not sure what my fandom has to do with this conversation? 

It's all good, I don't disagree with you there and respect your fandom.  I still have a hard time picturing the stadium full to capacity indefinitely going forward if the Bills encounter some more lean years again(not talking about ticket sales, just butts in seats).  Once again I understand the business side to all of it and I'm not shocked this is where we are but as a fan it's just disappointing the time is here, I mean we all knew it was coming yes but I don't think every fan has to love it and just take it with all smiles and rainbows.  There is going to be a lot of venting going on from now right up until the new stadium is opened.  Eventually it will die down and people will move on with it but right now it definitely feels like a culture shock.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Yes. Exactly. That is 100% the argument. To them, they are all that matters and they are successful and so is their business. 

yeah thats why I laughed when the poster labeled this model as "successful". I mean, it's successful for 1 of the 60,000 people involved. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

It's all good, I don't disagree with you there and respect your fandom.  I still have a hard time picturing the stadium full to capacity indefinitely going forward if the Bills encounter some more lean years again(not talking about ticket sales, just butts in seats).  Once again I understand the business side to all of it and I'm not shocked this is where we are but as a fan it's just disappointing the time is here, I mean we all knew it was coming yes but I don't think every fan has to love it and just take it with all smiles and rainbows.  There is going to be a lot of venting going on from now right up until the new stadium is opened.  Eventually it will die down and people will move on with it but right now it definitely feels like a culture shock.

I’m not sure what we think is changing? Yeah, there will be some changes in the seats with the $50k PSLs. That’s probably 1,000 seats total and 70% will be people currently there. The stadium will be filled with the same people that are filling it now. The PSLs will all be sold. In a decade, after Josh, maybe some people start selling some of their seats but it’ll be full. That’s just what happens in the NFL now (and into the future). The Bills are hot and get big numbers on the resale market. 
 

This era of Bills football has created a new generation(s) of fans. People that are 35 and under were not around for the glory years. People 25 and under never saw the Bills competent until this era. Now, both of those groups are “in.” I’m 42 and my weekly group is anywhere from 10-55(ish). I’m on the older side of the group. Most everyone is in their 30’s. These people aren’t going away. The stadium will remain packed for many, many, many years. 

[WotAGuy]

20 minutes ago, Einstein said:

By entertainment venues do you mean *only* football (or soccer in Europe)?

Because I cant think of any other entertainment venue where you pay for the building, then pay to enter the building, then pay to sit in the seat.

 

Well, in Syracuse, the county (and maybe/probably NYS) paid to build the Lakeside Amphitheater.  We pay Ticketmaster a fee to be able to buy tickets, and then buy the tickets to the show. 

[BillsPride12]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure what we think is changing? Yeah, there will be some changes in the seats with the $50k PSLs. That’s probably 1,000 seats total and 70% will be people currently there. The stadium will be filled with the same people that are filling it now. The PSLs will all be sold. In a decade, after Josh, maybe some people start selling some of their seats but it’ll be full. That’s just what happens in the NFL now (and into the future). The Bills are hot and get big numbers on the resale market. 
 

This era of Bills football has created a new generation(s) of fans. People that are 35 and under were not around for the glory years. People 25 and under never saw the Bills competent until this era. Now, both of those groups are “in.” I’m 42 and my weekly group is anywhere from 10-55(ish). I’m on the older side of the group. Most everyone is in their 30’s. These people aren’t going away. The stadium will remain packed for many, many, many years. 

I've never really put too much weight into the changes that will be going on with the club seats but to me the biggest concern would have to be the changing demographics in the 100 level seats.  I know those seats won't have $50K PSL's but I'm anticipating them to be anywhere from $5K-$10K depending on where in the 100 level and that will be enough to steer a decent amount of people away.  I'm not just pulling that out of thin air.  There are tons of Bills fan groups and pages and accounts on Facebook and Twitter filled with long-time season ticket holders in that area that say they are ready to walk away if the PSL's are going to be that much.  Sure some of them may end up buying tickets in the nosebleeds and end zones(which I don't think the PSL's will be too bad there) but it is going to create a logjam of fans fighting over those seats that won't be able to keep their current seating area in the new stadium.  Am I wrong to expect this to be the case?  

[mrags]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

yeah thats why I laughed when the poster labeled this model as "successful". I mean, it's successful for 1 of the 60,000 people involved. 

But that 1 person is the only person that it matters to. In regards to the decisions being made. 

[Kirby Jackson]

37 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

I've never really put too much weight into the changes that will be going on with the club seats but to me the biggest concern would have to be the changing demographics in the 100 level seats.  I know those seats won't have $50K PSL's but I'm anticipating them to be anywhere from $5K-$10K depending on where in the 100 level and that will be enough to steer a decent amount of people away.  I'm not just pulling that out of thin air.  There are tons of Bills fan groups and pages and accounts on Facebook and Twitter filled with long-time season ticket holders in that area that say they are ready to walk away if the PSL's are going to be that much.  Sure some of them may end up buying tickets in the nosebleeds and end zones(which I don't think the PSL's will be too bad there) but it is going to create a logjam of fans fighting over those seats that won't be able to keep their current seating area in the new stadium.  Am I wrong to expect this to be the case?  

I think that is fair. I too think that is where most of the attrition will come from as a lot of them are long term people. I think your numbers are fair too. With 10 years to finance them, those will get snatched up in no time. 
 

We are hearing from the vocal minority now. If you have seats, in the lower level, at like the goal line, and they tell you it’s $7500 PSL, what percentage is REALLY walking away? It’s less than 15%. They can easily replace that. We aren’t hearing from the 85% that are buying them immediately. (Those are conservative guesses by the way. It could easily be north of 90%).

 

Also, if you do the math and the Bills goal is to raise $200M(ish) from PSLs those estimates are high. Let’s assume that they raise $25M from the clubs ($20k-$50k). They need to raise $175M from the rest of the stadium. Let’s say that 20,000 seats average $2500 for PSL. That’s another $50M. Let’s say another 20,000 seats average $5000 for a PSL. That’s $100M more. That still leaves 10,000-15,000 seats for the other $25M. There’s your $200M. Play around with the numbers. The point being, these people terrified of the $50K PSLs don’t need to worry. The math doesn’t support there being many.

Edited March 28 by Kirby Jackson

[Just Jack]

I have club seats.  I also drive a 9 year old Toyota, shop for groceries at Walmart and Aldi. Wegmans is too expensive.  Club seats are my one splurge.  

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

I have club seats.  I also drive a 9 year old Toyota, shop for groceries at Walmart and Aldi. Wegmans is too expensive.  Club seats are my one splurge.  

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

By entertainment venues do you mean *only* football (or soccer in Europe)?

Because I cant think of any other entertainment venue where you pay for the building, then pay to enter the building, then pay to sit in the seat.

- You dont do that at concerts (unless its at a FOOTBALL stadium).
- You dont do that at comedy shows (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue). 
- You dont do that at magician acts (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue).
- You dont do that at medieval times (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue).

- You don't do that at festivals (taxpayers *might* have paid for the venue, but no PSL).

It's only football (or soccer). 

 

What is successful about it? Do you mean that a few billionaire owners are successful at taking money? 
 

That’s it true. I’ve been to the Sabres Arena (whatever the hell name their calling it now) for multiple concerts from people that paid PSLs. As I have also been offered tickets at the Bills Stadium for concerts before they go on sale to the public because I have club seats and pay a PSL. 
 

when you have a PSL you own the right to a seat at any event held in that arena/stadium. Period. (Except for the SuperBowl which we won’t ever have to worry about anyway)

41 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

I have club seats.  I also drive a 9 year old Toyota, shop for groceries at Walmart and Aldi. Wegmans is too expensive.  Club seats are my one splurge.  

Ewwwwwww. Aldi, I knew it. Trash 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

That’s it true. I’ve been to the Sabres Arena (whatever the hell name their calling it now) for multiple concerts from people that paid PSLs.

Huh? The Sabres dont have PSL's. 

You may have bought concert tickets (that were publicly available by the way) from Sabres season ticket holders who responded to an emailed that offered them to buy concert tickets, that you also could have purchased on Ticketmaster.

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Huh? The Sabres dont have PSL's. 

You may have bought concert tickets (that were publicly available by the way) from Sabres season ticket holders who responded to an emailed that offered them to buy concert tickets, that you also could have purchased on Ticketmaster.

I’m not sure about every seat in the house. But I’ve sat in a suite for a concert before. Pretty sure that constitutes a PSL. They own the box. Just like a club seat. And I’m not so sure that some 200 level tickets don’t have PSLs on them either. 
 

 

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m not sure about every seat in the house. But I’ve sat in a suite for a concert before. Pretty sure that constitutes a PSL. They own the box. Just like a club seat. And I’m not so sure that some 200 level tickets don’t have PSLs on them either. 

 

A suite is a completely different animal and not what anyone in this thread is talking about.

What i'm gathering is that you are mistakenly considering a season benefit perk that club holders get (about 15% of the stadium), where they get to purchase event tickets at the normal price as the general public, as "Personal Seat Licenses". Despite neither the Bills or Sabres EVER marketing this benefit as a PSL (because it's not).

Or maybe you just have the urge to argue.

 

[mrags]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

A suite is a completely different animal and not what anyone in this thread is talking about.

What i'm gathering is that you are mistakenly considering a season benefit perk that club holders get (about 15% of the stadium), where they get to purchase event tickets at the normal price as the general public, as "Personal Seat Licenses". Despite neither the Bills or Sabres EVER marketing this benefit as a PSL (because it's not).

Or maybe you just have the urge to argue.

 

Maybe I had the opportunity to buy tickets to the Luke Combs concert in April before they became available to the public. And yes, I do like to argue. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

And yes, I do like to argue. 

Guilty as well.

[oldmanfan]

I think the PSLs will sell fairly well.  I base that on a couple things.  One, the general level of insanity for the Bills among the fan base.  Two, I think there is more disposable income folks among fans than is generally thought to be so.  Every year we see how much Bills fans will travel to away games, thus they have the $$ to do so.  Plus I mentioned earlier when I visit the area restaurants, bars, other sporting events like the Bandits are full.  
 

I think you’ll see scenarios where folks may split the cost and go to X number of games and such.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

yeah thats why I laughed when the poster labeled this model as "successful". I mean, it's successful for 1 of the 60,000 people involved. 

 

That's capitalism for ya'.     I bet if you were wealthy you wouldn't volunteer to pay a penny more in taxes than you were required to if the other multi-millionaires didn't have to.    It's the exact same situation.   The other owners are collecting it from their fans,  Pegula would be pound-foolish to not collect it.

 

 

[Just Jack]

46 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Ewwwwwww. Aldi, I knew it. Trash 

Well, I didn’t want to brag, but I also have a Costco membership.  Gotta save money somewhere and that’s where ALDIs comes into play. 

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think the PSLs will sell fairly well.  I base that on a couple things.  One, the general level of insanity for the Bills among the fan base.  Two, I think there is more disposable income folks among fans than is generally thought to be so.  Every year we see how much Bills fans will travel to away games, thus they have the $$ to do so.  Plus I mentioned earlier when I visit the area restaurants, bars, other sporting events like the Bandits are full.  
 

I think you’ll see scenarios where folks may split the cost and go to X number of games and such.  

I have my doubts. Going by the comments on the article about the price of the PSLs I saw on Facebook, many are upset and a lot say they are priced out of season tickets now. 

 

As far as fans traveling, IMO it's similar to Sabres away games, in that a lot of former WNYers live in a lot of those cities. 

[Just Jack]

14 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

I have my doubts. Going by the comments on the article about the price of the PSLs I saw on Facebook, many are upset and a lot say they are priced out of season tickets now. 

I feel a lot of those people complaining are seeing the prices for club seats and thinking that will be the entire stadium prices.  

Edited March 29 by Just Jack