PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Mr Info]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

I wasn’t saying the timeshare argument was there for the presentation. But the pricing model seems to be similar. Like how they aren’t informing you of prices in lesser sections that what your currently in. They are starting at the highest and most expensive and won’t provide you any info on lesser options until they’ve exhausted the most expensive seats. At that point they will decide the pricing after that. If there’s still a huge demand they will continue at higher rates, if the sales are slowing down they have the ability to lower the prices. 

I disagree again based on my experience. They informed me there were 3 clubs (Founders, East Club, and Field Club). I told them I was not interested in Founders. East Clubs were more similar to the clubs I currently have but they also spent a good deal of time explaining the differences and pricing between the East and Field clubs. I felt I could have easily selected the less expensive Field clubs but chose the East clubs instead.

Perhaps your example is what you are anticipating for stadium seating. But I am providing my experience and interaction that they were not pushing the East clubs which were more similar (and expensive) to my current seats than Field clubs.

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

I disagree again based on my experience. They informed me there were 3 clubs (Founders, East Club, and Field Club). I told them I was not interested in Founders. East Clubs were more similar to the clubs I currently have but they also spent a good deal of time explaining the differences and pricing between the East and Field clubs. I felt I could have easily selected the less expensive Field clubs but chose the East clubs instead.

Perhaps your example is what you are anticipating for stadium seating. But I am providing my experience and interaction that they were not pushing the East clubs which were more similar (and expensive) to my current seats than Field clubs.

Again. The argument, and my personal opinion out there isn’t the way they are treating STHs while at the experience. It’s the pricing structure that is in place. Again, it’s why they aren’t providing any pricing models for stadium seating in the lower or upper bowls. I’m sure when the next level of fans they contact which should be the lower bowls, they won’t be giving them pricing in the 500 levels. It’s the structure itself, not the way the salesmen are pitching it. 

[Gregg]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, I can definitely see prices dropping to fill the stadium.  I have difficulty envisioning it selling out as-is.

 

I can also see Pegula's crocodile tears after Allen retires claiming that he's not making enough money here and then moving the team then.  

 

 

 

Terry bought the Bills for 1.4B and at last check with the new stadium coming they are worth 3.7B. He isn't selling. Owning an NFL team is a license to print money. It's like owning a cash cow. Now the Sabres that is a different story.

 

 

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=11f42a31b67b39d0JmltdHM9MTcxMTU4NDAwMCZpZ3VpZD0zOTQzMmYxOC04MGQzLTY5ZDItMjk5My0zZGRhODE1ZjY4NDEmaW5zaWQ9NTIxNQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=39432f18-80d3-69d2-2993-3dda815f6841&psq=buffalo+bills+franchise+value&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm9yYmVzLmNvbS90ZWFtcy9idWZmYWxvLWJpbGxzLw&ntb=1

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Westside said:

Until they start to suck again. Which will probably happen when Josh leaves. It’s a money grab. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I gave up my ST’s years ago when the drinking and tailgating got out of control. 
I really only watch the big games nowadays and wouldn’t really miss it if it went away. 
I believe this will signal the end of the bills in buffalo sooner rather than later. High ticket prices, rowdy drunk fans and the ever increasing costs for blue collar workers and as soon as the team starts to suck, away goes the people who are willing to pay for the exorbitant prices will stop paying. 
Greed ruins everything. 

Parody? 
 

If not, no the Bills aren’t going anywhere. This locks them in for a generation. They’ve never been more valuable than they are today. The NFL has never been hotter than right now. I’m 42 years-old and the Bills will be in WNY for my entire lifetime.

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree with all of that.  

 

But keep in mind that on our market it could backfire.  That appears to be what we're looking at here.

 

The other thing that does not go unnoticed, whether people articulate it or not, is the blatant dishonesty.

 

An article went up yesterday or the day before, with quotes from Legends starting that fewer than 1% of STHs have gone through.  That's a few hundred people.  

 

Yet, several different posters here have started that their reps have told them that whatever they're now selling are selling fast.  I suppose that's possible, but given the talk everywhere and people already bowling out, it's also highly unlikely.

 

Things like that song go unnoticed.  

 

Buffalo's a horse of a different color and needs to be managed as such.  

 

 

“Selling fast” means that they are getting a high percentage of people saying “yes” not that the inventory is almost gone. This bodes well for those people hoping for lower PSLs. The higher the percentage of people that say “yes” at $20k or $50k, the better off it is for people that will be like $2k.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree.  And contrary to the dumb narrative that claims that they can't leave for 15/20 years, the cost for Pegula to move is $850M.  Which fool(s) really think that's anywhere near enough to prevent a team from moving to where it's worth would double or ever triple with the move.

 

 

Also, Allen strikes me as someone that's well rooted and wouldn't risk his health after several more years and would retire while he can still walk normally and play golf around the world every day.  I don't see him wanting more and more money in exchange for his health.

 

Given the way that they use him I don't see him playing much longer that his current contract.  Then factor in his relationship with Steinfeld too. 

 

  

I’m not trying to be dismissive but I worked on a lease negotiation for a team that people thought was going to “leave town.” It’s WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY more difficult than stroking an $850M check. Maybe I am being dismissive but I feel that I can speak to the topic from experience. They aren’t going anywhere for AT LEAST 30 years.

1 hour ago, mrags said:

I am pretty sure they think that it’s not a special situation being Buffalo. They are an NFL team after all. It’s about money and they will get it and won’t care how. If they don’t get people buying the PSLs, they will just raise the price of season tickets to make up for it. But mark my words, the stadium will be sold out by STHs before the first season. 
 

as far as the amount of people that have went through the experience. A few hundred is probably correct. They’ve only been doing this for 1-2 weeks now. It’s likely in a one on one or small group basis. They’ve said it takes 90 minutes right? They are only open so many hours a day. There’s only so many people that can go through at once. They can absolutely be serious when saying that a large % of seats are being claimed but only gone through a few hundred or maybe into the 1,000s by now. 

Raising the price of season tickets doesn’t make up for it. That revenue is shared amongst the other teams in the league. It doesn’t work that way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can’t believe that we are back to the “doom and gloom” team is moving nonsense. This is going on while the stadium is under construction. CLEARLY there are still some that do not understand the economics of the NFL. Everyone can take a deep breath, the Bills will be here for at least 30 more years. Uncle Kirby promises

Edited March 28 by Kirby Jackson

[RkFast]

2 hours ago, Westside said:

Until they start to suck again. Which will probably happen when Josh leaves. It’s a money grab. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I gave up my ST’s years ago when the drinking and tailgating got out of control. 
I really only watch the big games nowadays and wouldn’t really miss it if it went away. 
I believe this will signal the end of the bills in buffalo sooner rather than later. High ticket prices, rowdy drunk fans and the ever increasing costs for blue collar workers and as soon as the team starts to suck, away goes the people who are willing to pay for the exorbitant prices will stop paying. 
Greed ruins everything. 

 

How does "greed" comes into play here? Name me a business that DOESNT pass at least a significant portion of the cost of doing business on to its customers in one way, shape or form. 

 

Until Im shown that team ownership is soaking the fans in this new building and charging prices with a very very high markup, the "greed" argument just doesnt wash. 

Edited March 28 by RkFast

[plenzmd1]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Parody? 
 

If not, no the Bills aren’t going anywhere. This locks them in for a generation. They’ve never been more valuable than they are today. The NFL has never been hotter than right now. I’m 42 years-old and the Bills will be in WNY for my entire lifetime.

“Selling fast” means that they are getting a high percentage of people saying “yes” not that the inventory is almost gone. This bodes well for those people hoping for lower PSLs. The higher the percentage of people that say “yes” at $20k or $50k, the better off it is for people that will be like $2k.

Quick question that I hope you have the answer. 
 

is there a set amount via the funding agreement with State/County/Bills that states a set amount that can raised via PSL? So a cap of say $120M through PSL purchase. 
 

or is it the Pegulas have to fund say $500m( I don’t know the actual #) and if they can raise 100% of through PSLs, that ls great for them!

 

thanks

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

Quick question that I hope you have the answer. 
 

is there a set amount via the funding agreement with State/County/Bills that states a set amount that can raised via PSL? So a cap of say $120M through PSL purchase. 
 

or is it the Pegulas have to fund say $500m( I don’t know the actual #) and if they can raise 100% of through PSLs, that ls great for them!

 

thanks

I haven’t read the actual agreement but it is likely the latter.

[Einstein]

28 minutes ago, RkFast said:

 

How does "greed" comes into play here? Name me a business that DOESNT pass at least a significant portion of the cost of doing business on to its customers in one way, shape or form. 

 

Until Im shown that team ownership is soaking the fans in this new building and charging prices with a very very high markup, the "greed" argument just doesnt wash. 

Not many businesses exist where the fans (taxpayers) pay for the building and THEN get charged to enter the building and THEN get charged to buy the product.

Imagine if YOU (the taxpayer) had to pay for new Taco Bell building. And THEN when the fancy new Taco Bell you paid for was all constructed, management made you pay to enter the building you just paid for. And THEN once youre in the building you paid to build, and paid to enter, you had to then pay for the actual tacos.

Your analogy doesnt wash because 99% of businesses... this would be thought of as insane. Which it is.

It is not even remotely close to passing the cost of doing business onto the customer.

[mrags]

39 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not trying to be dismissive but I worked on a lease negotiation for a team that people thought was going to “leave town.” It’s WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY more difficult than stroking an $850M check. Maybe I am being dismissive but I feel that I can speak to the topic from experience. They aren’t going anywhere for AT LEAST 30 years.

Raising the price of season tickets doesn’t make up for it. That revenue is shared amongst the other teams in the league. It doesn’t work that way.

I’m fully aware it doesn’t work that way. But if they don’t sell the PSLs they don’t have many other options (which I don’t think they will have a problem anyway). But in the event they don’t sell them to STHs they will just sell regular single game seats for the time being until people come out of the woodwork and buy the PSLs. Imagine if they don’t sell them all, then they win the SuperBowl. My guess is you’d see the PSLs that were available would be higher than what the current prices are now. 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m fully aware it doesn’t work that way. But if they don’t sell the PSLs they don’t have many other options (which I don’t think they will have a problem anyway). But in the event they don’t sell them to STHs they will just sell regular single game seats for the time being until people come out of the woodwork and buy the PSLs. Imagine if they don’t sell them all, then they win the SuperBowl. My guess is you’d see the PSLs that were available would be higher than what the current prices are now. 

The PSLs won’t be an issue. The waiting list will continue into the new stadium. That’s why they haven’t released the pricing on everything. It’s a moving target to meet demand. We may not ever see a time again where the Bills offer single game tickets to the public. The timing couldn’t be better for the Bills. They have Josh Allen in his prime. 

[papazoid]

42 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Quick question that I hope you have the answer. 
 

is there a set amount via the funding agreement with State/County/Bills that states a set amount that can raised via PSL? So a cap of say $120M through PSL purchase. 
 

or is it the Pegulas have to fund say $500m( I don’t know the actual #) and if they can raise 100% of through PSLs, that ls great for them!

 

thanks

 

from everything i've read....

 

there is no "set" amount

 

they have stated publicly a target of $200 mil thru PSL's

 

there is no "cap" ....they are free to raise as much as they can

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, papazoid said:

 

from everything i've read....

 

there is no "set" amount

 

they have stated publicly a target of $200 mil thru PSL's

 

there is no "cap" ....they are free to raise as much as they can

Basically it is working off Pegula’s portion. 

[papazoid]

initial cost estimate of new stadium $1.4 Billion

current cost estimate of new stadium $1.7 Billion

likely final cost estimate of new stadium $2.0 Billion

 

NY State Contribution $600 million  (not part of that "construction costs" is an additional $280 million for maintenance over 30 years)

NFL & Bills Contribution $550 million (of which Pegula's portion is $350 million)

Erie County Contribution $250 million

SUB TOTAL Contribution $1.4 Billion (initial est)

 

Pegulas are  responsible for any and all cost over runs....currently at $300 million and rising.

 

Projected to raise $200 million thru PSL's

 

so, if you factor in cost over runs....i say he will contribute $750 - $800 million or 35- 40%

[BillsPride12]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The PSLs won’t be an issue. The waiting list will continue into the new stadium. That’s why they haven’t released the pricing on everything. It’s a moving target to meet demand. We may not ever see a time again where the Bills offer single game tickets to the public. The timing couldn’t be better for the Bills. They have Josh Allen in his prime. 

Josh Allen won't be in his prime indefinitely.  As soon as the Bills go back to sucking It's not going to be the rich folks selling out that stadium on a week to week basis.  I'm still curious how this thing plays out in the long haul.   

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Terry bought the Bills for 1.4B and at last check with the new stadium coming they are worth 3.7B. He isn't selling. Owning an NFL team is a license to print money. It's like owning a cash cow. Now the Sabres that is a different story.

 

 

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=11f42a31b67b39d0JmltdHM9MTcxMTU4NDAwMCZpZ3VpZD0zOTQzMmYxOC04MGQzLTY5ZDItMjk5My0zZGRhODE1ZjY4NDEmaW5zaWQ9NTIxNQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=39432f18-80d3-69d2-2993-3dda815f6841&psq=buffalo+bills+franchise+value&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm9yYmVzLmNvbS90ZWFtcy9idWZmYWxvLWJpbGxzLw&ntb=1

 

I think you meant this for someone else.  I never Said that Pegula would sell, to the contrary.

 

 

[yall]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

 

from everything i've read....

 

there is no "set" amount

 

they have stated publicly a target of $200 mil thru PSL's

 

there is no "cap" ....they are free to raise as much as they can

If they sell 40k PSLs that's only an average cost of 5k per seat. Considering some of the premium PSLs are going for $30,000 or more, it would seem like the cheaper seats aren't going to be that bad.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Westside said:

Until they start to suck again. Which will probably happen when Josh leaves. It’s a money grab. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I gave up my ST’s years ago when the drinking and tailgating got out of control. 
I really only watch the big games nowadays and wouldn’t really miss it if it went away. 
I believe this will signal the end of the bills in buffalo sooner rather than later. High ticket prices, rowdy drunk fans and the ever increasing costs for blue collar workers and as soon as the team starts to suck, away goes the people who are willing to pay for the exorbitant prices will stop paying. 
Greed ruins everything. 

 

 

How long were you a season ticket holder?    

 

Your perception might be that the drinking has gotten worse at Bills games but that's not been my perception.    It's gotten almost clinical inside the stadium compared to the 1980's and 1990's.

 

I think genetically we are just wired to become more irritable/sensitive to the behavior of others and stop caring as much about things we once did as we get older.    

 

It's a WHOLE LOT easier for me to skip a Bills game now than when I was in my 20's.   It's an effort getting up and putting in those 12-14 hour days tailgating and it didn't used to be.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said:

Josh Allen won't be in his prime indefinitely.  As soon as the Bills go back to sucking It's not going to be the rich folks selling out that stadium on a week to week basis.  I'm still curious how this thing plays out in the long haul.   

The PSLs will all be sold before the new stadium opens. I don’t mean to come across as so dismissive but holy 🤬. This isn’t a scenario that “might” happen. The seats will be sold and the Bills will be here for a generation. If anyone wants to have a deeper discussion on it, I’m open for it.

[papazoid]

What happens to the PSL after 30 years ?

 

is it worth zero ? will they start a new PSL for renovations ?

 

i know the PSL  has a life limit of 30 years which  lines up with the bills new stadium lease for 30 years.

 

in an over simplification.....if you paid $30,000 for your PSL isnt it depreciating by $1,000 a year, so that after 20 years you go to sell it, there is only 10 years left on the PSL.....so might the approximate value be $10,000  for the remaining 10 years ? it's possible they appreciate, but i would think not in our market.